Candida & Biofilms - Theory & Protocol

Gestalt

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Does that cause or contribute to post-meal fatigue?
Additional butyrate should help prevent it because it helps spares glucose for the brain.

Post-meal fatigue really is a natural outcome of the function of the PNS system. I am coming to the speculative conclusion that supporting the PNS system is best done with fatty-acids such as the SCFAs (such as butyrate). Where as the SNS works optimally on glucose.
 

dmholmes

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Additional butyrate should help prevent it because it helps spares glucose for the brain.

Post-meal fatigue really is a natural outcome of the function of the PNS system. I am coming to the speculative conclusion that supporting the PNS system is best done with fatty-acids such as the SCFAs (such as butyrate). Where as the SNS works optimally on glucose.
Sounds good. I'm kind of in limbo with dysbiosis at the moment, the potato starch caused significant increase in fatigue for me.
 

kyzcreig

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Sounds good. I'm kind of in limbo with dysbiosis at the moment, the potato starch caused significant increase in fatigue for me.
Definitely indicative of dysbiosis. I'm avoiding lectins (potatoes, grains, nuts) at the moment so I'm going to hold off on RS. After I nuke the bugs in my gut I will definitely look into RS for repopulating and maintaining the gut.

I would recommend looking into Rifaximin, dmholmes.
 

dmholmes

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Definitely indicative of dysbiosis. I'm avoiding lectins (potatoes, grains, nuts) at the moment so I'm going to hold off on RS. After I nuke the bugs in my gut I will definitely look into RS for repopulating and maintaining the gut.

I would recommend looking into Rifaximin, dmholmes.
I looked into Rifaximin to treat Campylobacter that showed up on a stool test, but it doesn't work against it. I had some Azithromycin around so I just finished 5 days of that. Was hoping it would weed out the Campylobacter if it remains, and whatever else is causing trouble.
 

kyzcreig

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I looked into Rifaximin to treat Campylobacter that showed up on a stool test, but it doesn't work against it. I had some Azithromycin around so I just finished 5 days of that. Was hoping it would weed out the Campylobacter if it remains, and whatever else is causing trouble.
If you want to learn more about dysbiosis as it pertains to fibromyalgia, I've attached an excerpt from a book on the subject:
http://curezone.com/upload/PDF/Books/Polly_Hattemer_Book_7_Fibromyalgia.pdf

Bacteria. Bacterial contamination of the
small bowel will stop the housekeeper
wave. [39] (This presents a vicious cycle—
the contamination affects the motility and
the poor motility affects the contamination
level.) Antibiotics can help get the
housekeeper wave functioning again.
This section begins on page 18.

SIBO can be difficult to detect in a stool test. However there is a breath test for SIBO which should be easy enough to come by from a doctor.
 
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dannybex

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@Gestalt -- I was wondering if you've ever tried butyrate supplements. I have high ammonia, and have read that in addition to the benefits you noted above, it also lowers ammonia levels.
 

Gestalt

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I had some retroactive insight today.

When I first developed the nausea reaction to Candex, it hit me roughly 45 minutes after taking the capsules.

Using GI transit time estimates that would likely mean I had a severe candida/fungal infection in my upper small intestine. Instead of SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) I likely had SIFO (small intestinal fungal overgrowth).

The fact that taking Resistant Starch only a few times cleared up the nausea issue is rather remarkable. Since RS does not ferment until it reaches the large intestine, it would seem that it acted as a kind of filter/mop and the fungus attached itself to the RS granules and was effectively swept out of my small intestine to the colon curing me of the ailment.

pH can drop up to two points in the first part of the colon (the cecum), and with the additional RS it would make it a nice acidic environment thereby inactivating and likely killing any fungi.

"Among these, 23/124 (19%) had SIFO, 23/124 (19%) had mixed SIFO/SIBO and 31/124 (25%) had SIBO....

All patients with SIFO grew candida...

Nausea was more prevalent and severe in SIFO whereas abdominal pain and gas were more common in SIBO." http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(11)63354-4/pdf
 
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kyzcreig

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That's an interesting insight Gestalt. I've heard of SIFO but I'm not familiar with its diagnostics, if there are any. Do you plan to get yourself tested?

I've also heard dysbiosis (of bacterial or fungal nature) can cause imbalances between TH1 and TH2. And ultimately correcting the imbalance will yield the diminution of symptoms but that cannot be achieved before seminal problems, viz. dysbiosis, are corrected first. Unfortunately, but perhaps not surprisingly, an imbalance in TH1 and TH2 can encourage the development of dysbiosis, so its an issue which must be handled in tandem. I plan on checking my interleukin and hydrogen breathe levels to diagnose both soon.
 

Gestalt

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No, it is classified as a MCFA.
wikipedia said:
Fatty acid chains differ by length, often categorized as short to very long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-chain_fatty_acid#Length_of_free_fatty_acid_chains
wikipedia said:
Undecylenic acid is the active ingredient in medications for skin infections, and relieves itching, burning, and irritation. For example, it is used against fungal skin infections,[3] such as athlete's foot, ringworm, jock itch orCandida albicans.[citation needed] When used for jock itch, it can result in extreme burning, as the skin is rather sensitive.

At least one of the mechanisms underlying its antifungal effects observed is its inhibition of morphogenesis of Candida albicans. In a study on denture liners, undecylenic acid in the liners was found to inhibit conversion of yeast to the hyphal form. Hyphae were associated with active infection. The mechanisms of action appear to be interference with fatty acid biosynthesis, which can inhibit germ tube (hyphae) formation. Medium-chain fatty acids have also been shown to disrupt the pH of the cell cytoplasm by being proton carriers, which interferes with viral replication mechanisms in infected cells. The mechanism of action and effectiveness in fatty acid based antifungals is dependent on the number of carbon atoms in the chain, being more effective as the number of atoms in the chain increases (undecylenic acid has 11).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecylenic_acid

This is why MCT oil from coconuts are thought to be anti-fungal as well. Be warned if you take too much at once (like 1 tbsp) it can cause extreme nausea and intense vomiting. Happened to me, never again....

I took 15 capsules of SF722 daily for almost half a year. It seemingly did not help me at all. Just don't think it's powerful enough. I still have a skin fungal infection of Tinea Versicolor I need to get rid of....Maybe if I rubbed it on my skin..? Not sure what to do about that one. Even a 4 week stint of diflucan didn't work.
 
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Gestalt

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Re-posting this from the RS thread for future reference.

Wow... Came across this fantastic thread, from December, on Dr. Grace's blog with Kieth Bell:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12010-011-9526-2
http://benthamscience.com/open/openaccess.php?tomicroj/articles/V005/21TOMICROJ.htm
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2013/150653/
http://synapse.koreamed.org/Synapse/Data/PDFData/0184MB/mb-34-128.pdf
http://pelagiaresearchlibrary.com/e...tal-biology/vol3-iss4/EJEB-2013-3-4-26-34.pdf

Fungi also produce lactic acid and ethanol from potato starch:
http://digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/handle/2440/47204
http://aem.asm.org/content/52/5/1055.full.pdf
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00449-005-0398-0#page-1

General article on the health benefits of amylase includes possibly lowering autoimmune response:
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/the-health-benefits-of-amylase/ [LINK]

So, the basic hypothesis is that RS may be forcing microbes to produce enzymes, acids and alcohols which serve to clean up shop in the small intestine, right where they live in their slimy biofilm matrix communities. Of course, you can also take amylase supplement (also thought to degrade histamine), but the results may not be as well-targeted as with RS. [LINK]

The first link may help explain synergy espoused by Dr. B G in combining SBOs with RS:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12010-011-9526-2

Here's more about amylase production by bacillus subtilis:
http://www.pacificjournals.com/ajbor/pdf/06-2010/short_communication/23-28.pdf
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00449-004-0391-z#page-1

nice vintage review here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1243542/

Bacillus subtilis also produce lactic acid, but how interesting it's also used to manufacture hyaluronic acid which is very healing in little known gut application:
http://www.biopharma.novozymes.com/en/hyaluronic-acid/Frequently-asked-questions/Pages/default.aspx [LINK]

Fulvic acid is another product of SBOs who produce it from mucopolysaccharides of plants, basically the same as starch.

http://www.grjournals.com/portals/grjournals/JASA/Vol2 Issue8/JASA-2012-28-188-711-721.pdf

http://www.supremefulvic.com/documents/html/fulvic_acid.php#Humic_Deposits

I believe hyaluronic acid (HA) is a type of mucopolysaccharide. Here's an informative/funny piece about the sticky potato diet of a long-lived, healthy Japanese community attributed to HA in their soil:

Keith - here's a present for you:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC92288/

Concerning biofilms, RS from raw starch granules may not only bust biofilms as you suggest, but create their own to protect themselves. And there's a picture of it in the study I linked! [LINK]
I was taking Bacillus subtilis for a while, as its part of the Threelac formula. It's known to be a potent anti-microbial...ironic because it's a microbe.

Amylase as a biofilm buster is a neat theory. Most of those fungal species in the above links though i doubt are found in the GI tract. It's interesting the amylase from the microbes breaks biofilm, but human saliva amyalse doesn't according to the one article.

However many Asians use the yeast Aspergillus oryzae to ferment foods and liquors. Also if you eat certain fruits you may get Saccharomyces cerevisiae or Saccharomyces boulardii.

My guess is you would have to take these with RS or regular carbs perhaps, in order to get the beneficial effects.

Thought this was interesting as well from one of the above links...

" Carbohydrate derived fulvic acid (CHD-FA) is an organic acid which has previously demonstrated to be microbiocidal against Candida albicans biofilms, therefore, the aims of this study were to evaluate the antibacterial activity of CHD-FA against orally derived biofilms and to investigate adjunctive biological effects."
I am going to re-introduce fulvic acid into my supplement plan again after reading this.
 

dmholmes

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I took 15 capsules of SF722 daily for almost half a year. It seemingly did not help me at all. Just don't think it's powerful enough.
I've taken it off and on, but not for the long of a period. No benefit for me either. Or from any other antifungal except S. Boulardii and maybe Caprylic acid. But that doesn't seem to be doing anything either now.
 

knackers323

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I've taken it off and on, but not for the long of a period. No benefit for me either. Or from any other antifungal except S. Boulardii and maybe Caprylic acid. But that doesn't seem to be doing anything either now.

Why do things stop working all the time with this illness all the time? It happens to me too. I see a benefit and get my hopes up and then it stops having the same effect.

It's happened that many times now that I don't really get my hopes up anymore.
 

dmholmes

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Why do things stop working all the time with this illness all the time? It happens to me too. I see a benefit and get my hopes up and then it stops having the same effect.

It's happened that many times now that I don't really get my hopes up anymore.
Yep, it is very frustrating. I've had complete remission 3 times now only to relapse :mad:.
 
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No, it is classified as a MCFA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-chain_fatty_acid#Length_of_free_fatty_acid_chains
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecylenic_acid

This is why MCT oil from coconuts are thought to be anti-fungal as well. Be warned if you take too much at once (like 1 tbsp) it can cause extreme nausea and intense vomiting. Happened to me, never again....

I took 15 capsules of SF722 daily for almost half a year. It seemingly did not help me at all. Just don't think it's powerful enough. I still have a skin fungal infection of Tinea Versicolor I need to get rid of....Maybe if I rubbed it on my skin..? Not sure what to do about that one. Even a 4 week stint of diflucan didn't work.
Thank you for taking the time in explaining that Gestalt

Here: http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2052975 I just found Dr Ericbakker explains that

"many people with candida have found to have pH issues with there small intestine in particular"

"Unlike caprylic acid study's have shown that undecylenic acid works best is an predominantly acid environment"

"To make sure undecylenic acid works best in the small bowel, I always recommend a small amount of digestive enzyme like betain hydrochloride. This ensures the undecylenic acid works best where you want it to, in the duodenum and the ileum"

Thorn has now produced SF742 which includes betain hydrochloride

However you and I have had similar reactions(treatment resistance)to our yeast overgrowth with similar compounds(FiveLac/Diflucan/Serrapeptase)with next to no result. So I am hesitant to try this new version of SF722

I have also tried Terbinafine 500mg/day for six months which seemingly did nothing. The cream for topical use was effective on dermal application however after a period of time the infection stopped responding to it much to my frustration

As Terbinafine is NOT an "azole" it was at the time most favoured in a potential cure. Candida biofilm is incredibly difficult to penetrate with the currently available drugs. This is possibly the ONLY pharmaceutical with proven anti candida biofilm activity: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC127206/ along with possibly caspofungin. However access to these anti candida biofilm drugs are a little restricted(at the present time)

My knowledge in regards to RS and the other natural anti candida compounds/botanicals is rather limited, so I am here to learn and have found your thread VERY informative!
 

dmholmes

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I've never gotten that much better.

What was it that did it each of the times and how long did they last?
Hi @knackers323, I have another thread where I outlined the possible yeast connection. Briefly:
  • Biotin 300 mcg, lasted a week.
  • Super Thisilyn, lasted several weeks completely and then off and on for a few months.
  • Sacchromyces Boulardii, lasted 2 weeks.
I posted the other thread to get ideas on the mechanism and whether it is related to yeast/Candida or not. It seems to clearly be related to gut microbiome/small intestine health.