Thanks Freddd. More questions. :-D
What do you think about the role of hydroxo in scavenging NO?
That makes sense when focusing on the CNS and repairing damage. Esp given your stats on how much hydroxo is converted to methyl. Do you have a source for that or this based on experience?
My symptoms started neuro, not with fatigue or pain, rather buzzing and zapping. This could be lyme but Im not so sure. Most "activity" is in my spinal cord. It feel whacky off like a puppet wire is keeping it together and not very well. I started having very bad neuropathy, more horrible creepy sensations than pain, though pain is sometimes a relief from the creepy feelings. I have gait issues that come and go and the bottom of my feet will feel numb (I guess numb is the best way to describe it.. like I cant feel teh ground properly) and I have problems walking. My lower spine and hips are pretty bad off at times too.
So I am wondering if I need methyl B12. I am also wondering how this plays with my COMT++,++ status and probable mercury toxicity. Do you have any thoughts on these scenerios?
As for your dosing. Makes sense how you ramped up. I am wondering if you take 3 shots a day.. sounds like you are.. does it leave the system that fast? Have you checked your MTR, MTRR status? I am homogenous for MTR++ and I dont know how I made it as long as I did (40 years) being a vegetarian for 23 years, bearing two children and nursing while pregnant and into toddler years.
Lastly, my MMA urine was 10.. thats not that bad is it? If I have degeneration in my spinal column due to b12 deficiency, why not a higher MMA?
Thank you, Freddd, for any attempt you can make to plow though this post.
That makes sense when focusing on the CNS and repairing damage. Esp given your stats on how much hydroxo is converted to methyl. Do you have a source for that or this based on experience?
I have seen that repeated so often in so many places, concerning how much can be absorbed via IF and transported via HTC2 and thereby subject to conversion, that I can't give you any specific source. I also can't vouch for the numbers as I have no way of verifying them. What is demonstrated over and over is that a person can go from hycbl to methylb12 and/or adb12 and have all sorts of startup symptoms from unfullfilled needs no matter how long they are on hycbl. In fact it appears that the longer a person is on hycbl the more severe some mb12 and adb12 deficieciency symptoms get and the more severe the startup reaction is correcting those. Hycbl never appears able to fullfill the full need for mb12 and adb12 in the vast majority of people. Instead the majority of people appear to get deeper and deeper in the hole the longer they take it. It works for some symptoms but not the majority of them.
What do you think about the role of hydroxo in scavenging NO?
In that role it controls and decreases inflammation. I think that methylb12 is about 100x more effective at reducing inflammation than hycbl. That is based purely on pragmaticly determined effectiveness.
My symptoms started neuro, not with fatigue or pain, rather buzzing and zapping.
These are generally very specifcally mb12 deficiency symptoms.
Most "activity" is in my spinal cord. It feel whacky off like a puppet wire is keeping it together and not very well. I started having very bad neuropathy, more horrible creepy sensations than pain, though pain is sometimes a relief from the creepy feelings. I have gait issues that come and go and the bottom of my feet will feel numb (I guess numb is the best way to describe it.. like I cant feel teh ground properly) and I have problems walking. My lower spine and hips are pretty bad off at times too.
How long has this been going on? Is it continuing to get worse or has it leveled off or getting better? This is very specifically mb12 deficiency. I used to have similar problems. My feet are no longer dead numb. I have a normal gait back. I have regained normal reflexes. I have motor control of my toes. I can sense where my feet and lower legs are located. These started improving within hours of getting enough methylb12, with cofactors. I had 2 layers of numbness; skin and muscle. The skin sensation came back more easily than the muscles. I spent a couple of weeks on top of a second story roof last summer which I could never have done without the neurological healing I have had from the mb12. A year before I was falling a lot and could never have done that.
Elsewhere one man, a vegetarian, was able to get up out of a wheel chair becasue of daily hycbl. However, the rest of the healing and getting out of the braces was dependent upon mb12 and adb12. He also needed 30mg/day of mb12, just as I do, to do that. So, if you want to correct your spinal nerve problems with a pragmatically based protocol based on those with the experience of having done so, we can give you the information. A year from now you could be healed to a substantial extent. However, what we have to say will be at odds with many of the theories you appear to embrace.
So I am wondering if I need methyl B12. I am also wondering how this plays with my COMT++,++ status and probable mercury toxicity. Do you have any thoughts on these scenerios?
As far as the COMT++ status theory, if it keeps you from doing what is required to heal your feet it might not make sense for you to adhere to it. All sorts of theories abound to fill a void when there is not an effective therapy. Pragmatic results overide theories. Would you want to try something that could heal most all of that?
As far as mercury, there is a more complete discussion some ways back on this thread. I modeled the effects of mb12 on mercury based on research of clearance of methylmercury from accidental doses in humans. While huge doses (700mg plus injected mb12 at a time) might possibly have caused some rare mercury toxicity problems from converting mercury to methylmercury, normal doses of mb12 daily appear to clear it out at about 1% per day of the mobilized mercury, 50% in 71 days. In about 10 halflife periods of daily mb12 adminstration, about two years, a person would be largely cleared of mercury. 80% of mercury toxicity symptoms are mb12 deficiency symptoms as well. I have come across papers saying that the biggest problem of mercury is that it disables mb12 which is the active form the nervous system needs thereby causing CNS mb12 deficiency problems. Not taking mb12 appears to be much more of a risk than taking it as taking it corrects the deficiency and clears out the mercury. There may be differences of opinion on this. However, if one interpretation allows you to heal in the coming year and the other one doesn't you might want to choose the interpretation that allows you to heal. There are no guarantees. What I am saying goes against 60 years of research with inactive until converted in the body cobalamins such as hycbl and cycbl. The immediately active without conversion cobalamins, mb12 and adb12 are something entirely different.
Lastly, my MMA urine was 10.. thats not that bad is it? If I have degeneration in my spinal column due to b12 deficiency, why not a higher MMA?
There are several reasons. For starters MMA detects the failure of ATP being made in the mitochondria by adenosylb12. At the body wide level which is what is needed for a high serum or urinary MMA subacute combined degeneration has nothing to do with ATP generation. Now if were a cerebral spinal fluid MMA that was high, and there are no standards for that and CSF isn't drawn for that reason it still isn't what is normally associated with spinal nerve breakdown. Methylb12 in relatively large doses, ie 30mg/day in 2-4 doses is what causes repair of the spinal nerves. While adb12 is needed for proper fatty acid generation for the myelin, so is omega3 oils and other coffactors. The high dose of mb12 is generally needed because - pick your hypothesis; 1) many of the people have a depressed CSF b12 level because they either exclude cobalamins too well from the CSF and/or excrete too fast or; 2) A higher level of methylb12 upregulates neurological healing or; 3) Some combination of the first two.
This comes from the mistaken idea that "b12 deficiency" is all one thing. There are two body wide deficiencies, adb12 and mb12 which each has it's own set of distinguishable symptoms. Then the cerebral spinal fluid is insulated from body wide conditions and may have it's own deficiencies whether or not the body does. Each of these, adb12 and mb12 deficiencies has their own separate characteristics. The amount of MMA and homocystein generated in the CNS are not enough to show up as abnormal in the blood or urine and can be detected only with a CSF draw. In the body or CNS the homocystein specifically indicates failure in homocystein to methionine cycle.
No matter what some research says about the theoretical interchangability of different forms of b12 in most people it doesn't happen to sufficiency. The two immediately effective without transformation forms of b12, adb12 and mb12 are tremendously more effective for most people much more quickly and completely. And again, most people have different effects from each of them no matter what you compare it too and without regard to their hypothecized genetic characteristics.
As for your dosing. Makes sense how you ramped up. I am wondering if you take 3 shots a day.. sounds like you are.. does it leave the system that fast?
Yes, I take 3 shots a day. At two per day I can feel it start and stop it's effects and feel the 3 steps forward and 2 steps backwards each day.
Have you checked your MTR, MTRR status?
Nope.
