B-12 - The Hidden Story

[Methyl90]

I'm still handling lithium, I take this opportunity to ask for it once and for all, hoping to receive more information about it:

Does the dosage Fred refers to, from 1mg up to 20mg refer to lithium orotate or elemental lithium?

 

[ironlion37]

Hi, I don't know if this will do any good, but I think I have learned something new in this thread so I'll make a post. The one and only thing that has helped me is mixing fresh methylcobalamin powder with saline solution and doing an intramuscular injection of that every 48 hours (4mg MeB12/1ml saline).

I have noticed that once saline is added, the solution immediately begins losing potency until by about the 10th day it starts to become ineffective. This is with extreme care as to light exposure.

From reading this thread, I gather that I require this level of MeB12 to get penetration into the CSF. That injection holds me for about 36 hours and when I re-inject on the 2nd night, I wake up feeling great.

Or at least I did. I used to get my MeB12 powder from Oxford Biosciences but they switched suppliers in 2022 and I lost my health again. For 11 months I have been scouring the globe to try and find a comparable source of sterile powder for injection. Unfortunately, and insanely, I cannot obtain pure MeB12 powder anywhere else in the world. This is because pure, injectable MeB12 powder is not available to the public anywhere in the world. (If anyone reading this has a pharmacy license and is willing to help me obtain this substance...)

I have been postulating that there was something medically significant about that original powder I was using, but perhaps it's also simply the fact that a CFS penetrating dosage was part of the magic. I suspect that when Oxford Biosciences switched suppliers in 2022, they switched to a Chinese source because the new product feels "dirty" in my body.

That original powder felt like angels in my nervous system and had what I describe as a nervous system "flavor" of gently toasted almonds. More than anything, I think that sensation just spoke to a high quality, high purity product. It was heavenly and gave me boundless energy. As I said though, the powder I use now feels dirty and like there are some unwanted heavy metals in it. It barely has any positive effect and a noticeable negative effect.

Most recently I have tried the B12 transdermal oils and have been disappointed. There is some effect, but it takes a long time to come on and only lasts a little while. It's just not comparable to those original injections for me.

I have also ordered some 20mg/ml B12 from the University Pharmacy in Salt Lake City. That's a different animal. It does give me some physical and sexual energy, but it seems to have no effect on the brain. It behaves more like adenosylcobalamin so I don't know what to think about that.

After reading some of this thread, I am sucking on some Jarrow 5mg and will see what comes of that. I'm also going to try ordering some MeB12 ampules from Arnike in Germany. I'm coming to the end of the line though.

Thanks for reading.

 

[drmullin30]

Hi, I don't know if this will do any good, but I think I have learned something new in this thread so I'll make a post. The one and only thing that has helped me is mixing fresh methylcobalamin powder with saline solution and doing an intramuscular injection of that every 48 hours (4mg MeB12/1ml saline).

I have noticed that once saline is added, the solution immediately begins losing potency until by about the 10th day it starts to become ineffective. This is with extreme care as to light exposure.

From reading this thread, I gather that I require this level of MeB12 to get penetration into the CSF. That injection holds me for about 36 hours and when I re-inject on the 2nd night, I wake up feeling great.

Or at least I did. I used to get my MeB12 powder from Oxford Biosciences but they switched suppliers in 2022 and I lost my health again. For 11 months I have been scouring the globe to try and find a comparable source of sterile powder for injection. Unfortunately, and insanely, I cannot obtain pure MeB12 powder anywhere else in the world. This is because pure, injectable MeB12 powder is not available to the public anywhere in the world. (If anyone reading this has a pharmacy license and is willing to help me obtain this substance...)

I have been postulating that there was something medically significant about that original powder I was using, but perhaps it's also simply the fact that a CFS penetrating dosage was part of the magic. I suspect that when Oxford Biosciences switched suppliers in 2022, they switched to a Chinese source because the new product feels "dirty" in my body.

That original powder felt like angels in my nervous system and had what I describe as a nervous system "flavor" of gently toasted almonds. More than anything, I think that sensation just spoke to a high quality, high purity product. It was heavenly and gave me boundless energy. As I said though, the powder I use now feels dirty and like there are some unwanted heavy metals in it. It barely has any positive effect and a noticeable negative effect.

Most recently I have tried the B12 transdermal oils and have been disappointed. There is some effect, but it takes a long time to come on and only lasts a little while. It's just not comparable to those original injections for me.

I have also ordered some 20mg/ml B12 from the University Pharmacy in Salt Lake City. That's a different animal. It does give me some physical and sexual energy, but it seems to have no effect on the brain. It behaves more like adenosylcobalamin so I don't know what to think about that.

After reading some of this thread, I am sucking on some Jarrow 5mg and will see what comes of that. I'm also going to try ordering some MeB12 ampules from Arnike in Germany. I'm coming to the end of the line though.

Thanks for reading.

My apologies if you've have tried it and I missed your post, but have you tried Lithium? Lithium has been extremely important for a few members (as Methyl90's post above) who also required extremely high doses of b12. If you've had your genes mapped and have TCN SNPs for instance you might benefit from Lithium.

 

[drmullin30]

I'm still handling lithium, I take this opportunity to ask for it once and for all, hoping to receive more information about it:

Does the dosage Fred refers to, from 1mg up to 20mg refer to lithium orotate or elemental lithium?

Hi Methyl, if memory serves it should be elemental lithium. Most high quality lithium Orotate states the dosage in these tems e.g. https://www.pureencapsulationspro.com/lithium-orotate-5-mg.html

 

[ironlion37]

My apologies if you've have tried it and I missed your post, but have you tried Lithium? Lithium has been extremely important for a few members (as Methyl90's post above) who also required extremely high doses of b12. If you've had your genes mapped and have TCN SNPs for instance you might benefit from Lithium.

Thank you, I have tried lithium orotate (5mg) on several occasions. It seems quite clear that my body doesn't like it. I haven't experiences any positive effects from using it.

 

[Johnmac]

Hi, I don't know if this will do any good, but I think I have learned something new in this thread so I'll make a post. The one and only thing that has helped me is mixing fresh methylcobalamin powder with saline solution and doing an intramuscular injection of that every 48 hours (4mg MeB12/1ml saline).

I have noticed that once saline is added, the solution immediately begins losing potency until by about the 10th day it starts to become ineffective. This is with extreme care as to light exposure.

From reading this thread, I gather that I require this level of MeB12 to get penetration into the CSF. That injection holds me for about 36 hours and when I re-inject on the 2nd night, I wake up feeling great.

Or at least I did. I used to get my MeB12 powder from Oxford Biosciences but they switched suppliers in 2022 and I lost my health again. For 11 months I have been scouring the globe to try and find a comparable source of sterile powder for injection. Unfortunately, and insanely, I cannot obtain pure MeB12 powder anywhere else in the world. This is because pure, injectable MeB12 powder is not available to the public anywhere in the world. (If anyone reading this has a pharmacy license and is willing to help me obtain this substance...)

I have been postulating that there was something medically significant about that original powder I was using, but perhaps it's also simply the fact that a CFS penetrating dosage was part of the magic. I suspect that when Oxford Biosciences switched suppliers in 2022, they switched to a Chinese source because the new product feels "dirty" in my body.

That original powder felt like angels in my nervous system and had what I describe as a nervous system "flavor" of gently toasted almonds. More than anything, I think that sensation just spoke to a high quality, high purity product. It was heavenly and gave me boundless energy. As I said though, the powder I use now feels dirty and like there are some unwanted heavy metals in it. It barely has any positive effect and a noticeable negative effect.

Most recently I have tried the B12 transdermal oils and have been disappointed. There is some effect, but it takes a long time to come on and only lasts a little while. It's just not comparable to those original injections for me.

I have also ordered some 20mg/ml B12 from the University Pharmacy in Salt Lake City. That's a different animal. It does give me some physical and sexual energy, but it seems to have no effect on the brain. It behaves more like adenosylcobalamin so I don't know what to think about that.

After reading some of this thread, I am sucking on some Jarrow 5mg and will see what comes of that. I'm also going to try ordering some MeB12 ampules from Arnike in Germany. I'm coming to the end of the line though.

Thanks for reading.

With the oils, did you follow the protocol properly - e.g. test your thyroid, iron & D levels, take the cofactors of iodine, selenium, molybdenum, B2? (And wait several weeks?)

I've found that the more exacting I am, the better it works.

 

[Tiffyshea]

Is this a totally dead thread, cause I could use some help!

I'd like to try Freddd's protocol as I have avoided B12 from the beginning due to the big crash I'd get from it... but now I realize there may be a reason for that.

However it seems it has been a while and perhaps the supplement list needs to change. I have questions about it:

1. First, for "sublingual" are you guys just purchasing the chewables and then letting them dissolve under the tongue? I'm not seeing anything the is specifically formulated as "sublingual".

2. It appears that maybe Country LIfe no longer sells dibencozide. Or am I missing something? If I'm right and they're not, what brand are you using instead? I can't seem to find a chewable dibencozide in 3mg anywhere.

3. I see people talking about enzymatic therapy (1mg 5x day) but don't see anything about this in the original list and wondered what it is referring to. Is this a particular enzymatic therapy or something like Kirkman Labs biofilm stuff?

4. It also looks like it's getting harder to find Jarrow B-Right Be vitamins, are they discontinuing this? What is everyone replacing it with?

5. Are you guys still recovered/recovering with this protocol? Has it been a life saver for anyone?


I'm sorry I've spent over a couple of hours reading through some of this stuff on here and perhaps you've already discussed some of this but I just don't have the time to read on forever!

Any help or answers to my questions would be very much appreciated! Thanks all!

 

[Riddle]

Hi Tiffyshea,

I read your post this morning when I looked on here to see where people were getting their dibencozide.

I am in the UK, I have used Jarrows Methylcobalamin lozenges for at least ten years from "BigVits"; the last couple they have had methylfolate included, which is fine by me!

I have today ordered Country Life Dibencozide from the US through the "Vitamin Grocer UK" website, as it is (as you say) just not sold anywhere that I can find directly within the UK.

This protocol (or my version of it) has been a lifesaver for me over the last decade and brought me back from the brink.

I lurked on these forums back in the 20teens but never joined before now - this is my first post, in a way to give something back for the help I received.

My thoughts are that the stomach acid production cells are involved, in that they don't produce enough, which may be why ingested B12 doesn't get absorbed. It's certainly true that as we age stomach acid production reduces.

If the stomach can't absorb B12 then taking it "sublingually" using dissolvable lozenges is the best way, unless you fancy injecting! I've never gone down this route, but know that B12 injections are given for pernicious anaemia by the NHS, again, another affliction as we age! These use cyanocobalamin, a form of B12 that I understand is not optimal.

Another problem I've had to deal with is the use of acid reduction drugs (PPI etc.), which is widespread in the NHS. During the pandemic I was diagnosed with a hiatus hernia and prescribed these. I went to A&E a couple of times in very quick succession with symptoms of a "heart attack", which was actually a panic attack (awful!!)

The junior Doctor that dealt with me obviously thought this - but the "old school" approach meant they still pushed the one treatment that would only make me continuously suffer.

The PPIs went in the bin. My treatment? HCl betaine (with food) as needed - in other words - extra stomach acid and I've not had anything like it since.

Somehow there must be a link between B12 and stomach acid production or function and I can well believe it is genetic. Both my mother and sister were vulnerable but, such is the nature of the beast (anxiety/ depression/panic etc.) it is less likely to be discussed openly than other female issues (childbirth/ menopause). We're just hysterical females, right? Right!!

I hope this helps someone.

My best to all.

 

[almost]

Is this a totally dead thread, cause I could use some help!

Hi @Tiffyshea, I'll pass on what I've learned.

From what I can tell, the Country Life Dibencozide has been discontinued. What's in its place is just the Methylcobolamin product. I have been using Life Extension B12 elite which is a mix of Methyl and Adenocobolamin. I can tell when I take it in size (like 4 lozenges at once, under the lip), that it is active, as several minutes later I start feeling some relief from the tingling in my feet. Each lozenge is 1000 mcg. Their downside for me, a big one, is the artificial sugars in them. They do work, however.

Enzymatic Therapy was a brand back when Freddd was developing his protocol. It's not around anymore except for people selling some stray bottles. The brand was purchased by Nature's Way a while ago. Whether they rebranded it under their own label or just wanted the rights to it, I don't know.

Sublingual, in Freddd's protocol, I believe refers to what are often labeled "lozenges." They are a tablet meant to be held in the mouth to slowly dissolve, but you could chew them. I don't think they would be as effective that way.

A brand I'm going to try is BlueBonnet chewables. I don't fancy the chewable form, but I want to see if I can use them sublingually. I'm not expecting much, but worth a try. Their advantage is lack of artificial sugars, although it still does have real sugar (is a sugar free product that unpalatable?). Their other products I've tried have been good.

Blessings.

 

[Riddle]

Hi,

I took this from the description on the website page:

https://uk.vitamingrocer.com/products/dibencozide-coenzymated-b-12-61222


The Benefits of Coenzymated Vitamins

In order for vitamins to be utilized by the body, they must first be converted into their active coenzyme forms. Coenzymated B-12 is ready to go to work immediately. Dibencozide is another name for adenosylcobalamin, a primary coenzyme form of vitamin B-12 essential for processing branched chain amino acids for energy production in the mitochondria. Vitamin B-12 is also necessary for the production of red blood cells that deliver oxygen to tissues for energy production. Supplementation with vitamin B-12 can help ensure optimal energy production during prolonged exertion. Coenzyme supplementation reduces the body's need to synthesize the active forms of vitamin B-12, unlike the commonly used cyanocobalamin, which the body must convert to the coenzyme forms.

As I understood it (from Wiki)

According to one author, it is important to treat vitamin B12 deficiency with hydroxocobalamin or cyanocobalamin or a combination of adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin, and not methylcobalamin alone.[8]

I can't remember why though!! Was it due to a lack of a gene prevented conversion into active forms in the body, which caused a block in the methylation cycle??

If you're like me sticking to the same brand seems the way to go. It's a worry when products change or even disappear completely! IIRC Jarrow products were changed some years ago and some people on here reported they were less effective/ no good.

Anyway, I'm happy to have some dibencozide lozenges on the way!

 

[Tiffyshea]

Hey thanks @Riddle and @almost! I really appreciate the response. It's also great to hear that people are still trying it and seeing results.

I've been taking Jarrow methylcobalamin and Solgar methylfolate for almost 2 months, and I feel so crashed and so messed up I'm about to stop to see if I feel better without it. At first it seemed to give me a little energy boost but not anymore. I'm going to try to eek it out for another few weeks but it's pretty bad.

Looks like there's a couple of places you can get the Source Naturals Dibencozide lozenges in the US. Maybe I will try that!

I'm a little worried that methylation isn't my problem. I have upper cervical problems and I'm wondering if whatever that is doing to my body is just making me super sensitive to supplements. I can hardly take anything. But I am heterozygous for the MTHFR gene, so that's one reason I wanted to try it.

Thanks so much you guys!