B-12 - The Hidden Story

Methyl90

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Last night I had some adrenaline rush from noise ... and this morning I got up with acne in my head, angular chelitis and itching.

@Learner1 Is positive or not ? Sign folate deficency or trap ?
 

Learner1

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I have those too.

Learner did you have some kind of cognitive decline, brain fog, difficulties on focusing? Did all these things improve post-chelation and re-activation of methylation?
Yes, but it was due to immunodeficiency and reactivated infections. While chelating under the care of excellent doctors, they had me on a customized methylation protocol.
 

Methyl90

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I wanted to know if dietary iron intake, such as chicken breast or beef, hinders or slows the absorption of sublingual MB12? in addition to the difficulty of assimilating the B12 contained in the meat. Thank you. @Learner1
 

Methyl90

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I had the results of the plasma amino acids, they are all regular except the serine of 4 points below the reference range. Today is a week of continuous use of Methyl B12 with incremental dose. I started from 600mcg and got to 5000mcg. Today I gave it a try with 800mcg methylfolate, the first three hours (its half-life) increased anger, but much better thereafter. It is really true that you have to take one step back and then take two forwards. Logic, language, thoughts, movements and coordination are improving. I haven't had any potassium deficiency symptoms yet, but I'll do the tests on Monday. I seem to have a negative answer from the iron in the meat, I don't think animal folate is the problem. I avoid any vegetable form except bananas and apples. @Learner1
 

Methyl90

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The lunch banana creates a paradoxical lack of folate as Fred describes well and cancels the action of methylfolate taken in a single dose in the morning 800mcg. I think I'll split the doses and increase slowly. Do you think animal folate can still be a problem?
 

Learner1

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I had the results of the plasma amino acids, they are all regular except the serine of 4 points below the reference range. Today is a week of continuous use of Methyl B12 with incremental dose. I started from 600mcg and got to 5000mcg. Today I gave it a try with 800mcg methylfolate, the first three hours (its half-life) increased anger, but much better thereafter. It is really true that you have to take one step back and then take two forwards. Logic, language, thoughts, movements and coordination are improving. I haven't had any potassium deficiency symptoms yet, but I'll do the tests on Monday. I seem to have a negative answer from the iron in the meat, I don't think animal folate is the problem. I avoid any vegetable form except bananas and apples. @Learner1
Sorry, your situation should be discussed with your doctor, ideally with testing involved. If you want to self troubleshoot, you might try this resource. I haven't used it, but he is a reputable expert.

https://chris-masterjohn-phd.myshopify.com/products/did-you-know-dont-forget-to-add-save20
 
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https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186 -

Read the link several kinds. Basically one has to take ALL the nutrients needed to make cells. Then when a bottleneck is hit were ONE nutrient is causing failure of cell completion with specific symptoms. Those symptoms tell you what nutrient to increase. It's a matter of building the chemical pathways.

So miserable symptoms from hours to 3 days or more for miserable symptoms to increase after MeCbl and each nutrient in turn, causes symptoms. After MeCbl or MeCbl and AdoCbl both start demanding potassium to be increased and/or l-methylfolate. Often it can be both alternating until sufficiency is reach. It can be done all at once because most is just thrown out. It needs to build perhaps 25% increase each round, so if a person is at 1000 mcg of methylfolate then 1250 methylfolate or maybe 1500 mcg to build the pathways to deal with that much and then suddenly it switches to potassium needed for the more cells made and then often back to Merthiolate again. These sudden worse or new symptoms are a FLAG OF HEALING and stopping becasue of a missing nutrient needed for currently being made cells.

If a person stops each time they have refeeding symptoms they will never heal. Instead about 95% of the symptoms will be in groups 1, 2a, 2b and 3 and these nutrients will be the most frequently added. At 4 or 8 mg of methylfolate one might see the quantities of symptoms decreasing and some symptoms are gone. I t took me years to get rid of 200 symptoms. The Lithium, MeCbl, AdoCbl, Methylfolate, l-carnitine are all needed to grow cells and after some years I started having better homeostasis becasue of the lithium and the Transcobalamin Receptor Li hels maintain the homeostasis. If you have lesions at the corners of your mouth, sp;lit finger tips and cracks by the nails and skin rashes and so on will be the first things to heal. I have been able to use these guides for what is needed to heal for 17 years. So now when every few months Metafolin (Deplin Metafolin) fai ls to work, lesions start in a couple of days and when I switch to Quatrefolic (different form slightly of methylfolate) all the lesions go away in a few days and IBS takes a few days longer. After a week I can switch back to Metafolin. This has happened 10 times or so for me so far. Also, I have l-carnitines that shift as fast with cell making failure telling you but different from folate. Often one of 5 or 6 carnitines works at a time. Several together don't appear to work at all.
Dear Fred,

I have an important question for you. You were already on CNS penetration doses of mb12 when you added lithium. Then you grew enough TCR-li so that you don't need large doses of mb12 anymore to maintain b12 levels in the CNS. Do you think that CNS penetration doses are necessary for lithium to grow TCR-li in the CNS?

In other words, if someone is new to your protocol is starting low doses of mb12, deadlock quartet along with lithium and other nutrients, will they be growing TCR-li in the CNS ?? Or would they have to do the penetration doses for few months before they grow enough TCR-li in the CNS??

Thank you so much Fred for all the information out there.. if not for a genius like you, none of us could have figured out any of these things. You are helping millions and possibly future generations as well.
 

Busson

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5312744/

I have mitochondrial dysfunction and non-optinal B12 genes and find I do just fine with MB12. The article seems to support this.
I am catching up with your post from March 14th @Learner1 . That's an interesting link you provided. The authors say "all B12 forms may likely have similar bioavailabilities and physiological effects". However my own experience definitely shows that taking adenoB12 is very different to taking methylB12.

(1) My main problem (methylmalonic and propionic acidemia) requires adenoB12 and I tolerate it well. I take it using Greg's transdermal oil in preference to a water-based oral solution which I find is too dilute. I have used sublingual dibecozide tablets and too is effective but, as it is oral and there is movement, I am never sure the same dose gets delivered each day.

(2) On the other hand, methylB12 gives me a great deal of troubling side effects even at a considerably lower dose than I take for adenoB12. As it turns out, this appears to be due to methylB12 overloading my injured kidneys (from years of taking a blood pressure medication but that's another story).

(3) I get similar kidney-overload symptoms from taking hydroxoB12 by injection. 250 mcg will cause problems after a few days.

I am aware there is considerable speculation, not least on this forum, about the cause of such methylB12 side effects with conjectures about refeeding with its potassium/phosphorus depletion, adrenal over stimulation, lack of active B2 from selenium/moly/iodine, methyl folate trapping, etc. None of these apply in my case but might apply to others without kidney injury.

On the other hand, I find zinc is very useful. I am not sure why but, if you are familiar with these pathways, I notice it is required both in the methionine cycle for methionine synthase functioning (MTR gene) and also in the alternative non-B12 BHMT methylation pathway.
 
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Busson

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I do not recommend freddd's protocol unless you have freddd's genes - he seems to have a very unique set of genes that makes things work differently for him.
That is very important. Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe Freddd has a genetic B12 disorder sometimes called cblC (or called by others MAHCC) whose symptoms will be further affected by other defects along its pathways and the response to supplements will be quite different to what other people deficient in B12 get.
 
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Learner1

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I am catching up with your post from March 14th @Learner1 . That's an interesting link you provided. The authors say "all B12 forms may likely have similar bioavailabilities and physiological effects". However my own experience definitely shows that taking adenoB12 is very different to taking methylB12.

(1) My main problem (methylmalonic and propionic acidemia) requires adenoB12 and I tolerate it well. I take it using Greg's transdermal oil in preference to a water-based oral solution which I find is too dilute. I have used sublingual dibecozide tablets and too is effective but, as it is oral and there is movement, I am never sure the same dose gets delivered each day.

(2) On the other hand, methylB12 gives me a great deal of troubling side effects even at a considerably lower dose than I take for adenoB12. As it turns out, this appears to be due to methylB12 overloading my injured kidneys (from years of taking a blood pressure medication but that's another story).

(3) I get similar kidney-overload symptoms from taking hydroxoB12 by injection. 250 mcg will cause problems after a few days.

I am aware there is considerable speculation, not least on this forum, about the cause of such methylB12 side effects with conjectures about refeeding with its potassium/phosphorus depletion, adrenal over stimulation, lack of active B2 from selenium/moly/iodine, methyl folate trapping, etc. None of these apply in my case but might apply to others without kidney injury.

On the other hand, I find zinc is very useful. I am not sure why but, if you are familiar with these pathways, I notice it is required both in the methionine cycle for methionine synthase functioning (MTR gene) and also in the alternative non-B12 BHMT methylation pathway.
Good observations. I believe that certain people will do better with one form of B12 over the other, but it's individual.
 

Learner1

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Dear Fred,

I have an important question for you. You were already on CNS penetration doses of mb12 when you added lithium. Then you grew enough TCR-li so that you don't need large doses of mb12 anymore to maintain b12 levels in the CNS. Do you think that CNS penetration doses are necessary for lithium to grow TCR-li in the CNS?

In other words, if someone is new to your protocol is starting low doses of mb12, deadlock quartet along with lithium and other nutrients, will they be growing TCR-li in the CNS ?? Or would they have to do the penetration doses for few months before they grow enough TCR-li in the CNS??

Thank you so much Fred for all the information out there.. if not for a genius like you, none of us could have figured out any of these things. You are helping millions and possibly future generations as well.
Lithium is not needed for most people, only people with need for lithium due to genetic or environmental factors.
 
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Dear Fred,

I have an important question for you. You were already on CNS penetration doses of mb12 when you added lithium. Then you grew enough TCR-li so that you don't need large doses of mb12 anymore to maintain b12 levels in the CNS. Do you think that CNS penetration doses are necessary for lithium to grow TCR-li in the CNS?

In other words, if someone is new to your protocol is starting low doses of mb12, deadlock quartet along with lithium and other nutrients, will they be growing TCR-li in the CNS ?? Or would they have to do the penetration doses for few months before they grow enough TCR-li in the CNS??

Thank you so much Fred for all the information out there.. if not for a genius like you, none of us could have figured out any of these things. You are helping millions and possibly future generations as well.
@Freddd

For your attention..
 

Methyl90

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I have difficulty absorbing B12 under the lip, I notice that the lips dry out. Could it be due to low salivation?
 

Methyl90

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@Learner1 @Freddd When Fred talks about not taking glutathione precursors ... it comes naturally to me to ask then also limit the protein intake since glycine glutamine cysteine are everywhere? do you eliminate milk, yogurt and cheese?