B-12 - The Hidden Story

[Freddd]

Can anyone tell me if there's a difference between oral b12 and sublingual? To be more specific, can I use the powder in an oral capsule and massage under my tongue or in my gums like mentioned in some other threads?

Only reason I ask is the only B12 sublingual I can get in my country are loaded with fillers that I react very badly too.

Hi Spleenpoker,
I would like to offer you some other possibilities For instance, If you are taking HyCbl, in whatever form, and you start having acne type lesions on face and scalp especially, split corners of lips, same on fingernails at corner of nails,and many other symptoms, often within a couple of days may not have anything to do with fillers. It is biological responses that can indicate secondary symptoms. So HyCbl/CyCbl which cause only the lesions type symptoms would indicate that a person has some difficulty growing TransCobalamin Receptors (TCR). On the other hand if you get those symptoms and a whole bunch of others which indicate that the TCR is present adequately but then secondary bottlenecks pop up becasue the B12 (whatever forms) is causing healing and there are other secondary bottlenecks and symptoms startup also usually in 1 to 3 days. If you are taking a folate with it you also have one set of symptoms for the kinds that don't work for you (genetic) and for those that work, increased secondary.

Both oral and sublingual can absorb B12 adequately if you have enough receptors built which depends on having all the right basic nutrients and micronutrients to build the receptors and to avoid certain things that don't work for you.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

In this post there are two lists of bottleneck symptoms, one a reasonably complete list of long duration building upo symptoms and another set of lists that has rapidly responding secondary bottleneck symptoms that can change in hours to days when corrected with the right nutrient assuming all the others are present. sufficiently. It is all much more complicated than people tend to want to believe. Read that post, whole thing, twice, becasue all the different parts are dependent on each other. If your symptoms don't match up with these on these lists, let's reconsider what the causes might be. Be in good health. Be careful. The right answers can give you answers in hours to days. Remember, some symptoms signal that cell making stops working right and in others the secondary symptoms are due to some healing but missing, bottlenecking, other nutrients becasue your body is trying to heal.

 

[Spleenpoker]

snip

Excellent, thank you. I will have to reread it again when the brain fog dies down a bit.

Though back to my original question if you don't mind? The only form of B12 I can get in my country is cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin and I cannot import any medicine or supplements internationally as they will be confiscated, so I have no choices in the matter. I am currently suffering terribly from histamine intolerance which makes sense as these are my following mutations:

Single:
AHCY:1, 2, 19
MTR: A2756G
MTRR: A66G
MTRR:11
VDR: Taq1, Fok1
Double:
BHMT:4
CBS: C699T
COMT:V158M, H62H
MAOA
SHMT: C1420T


So I am pretty limited in options with B12, especially with the mutations present. I know it's the fillers because I've got TERRIBLE MCS at the moment and react to EVERYTHING, even a supplement with just microcrystalline cellulose triggers me badly the second I come into contact with it. So I haven't even bothered to check the short or long term affects yet as every supplement/medication is an immediate trigger that lasts hours(H1 Antihistamine helps quite a bit), but I appreciate the post so I can keep an eye out on all that.

I can get an oral capsule of MB12 with just MCC as a filler(The sublingual has 8 other ingredients, including natural cherry flavour and salicylates trigger histamine symptoms for me at the moment) so I want to know what the difference is(if any) between sublingual and oral? I am hoping to use the oral on my gums instead. Is the oral capsule powder too thick or doesn't have a special ingredient to help it absorb sublingual? No idea how that works

 

[Freddd]

Hi Spleenpoker,

Message me. I'll give you some info that is not ready for primetime as well as some that is. They fit together, I think. Let's figure out what will work for you.

 

[whodathunkit]

Hi @Freddd , glad to see you are around and doing well! I haven't been around for a while because I put the vast majority of my CFS symptoms into remission for a long time with your protocol, but stopping the folate and B12 and then undergoing a significant amount of stress for a couple of years have kind of tanked me again.

Good news is that I was off regular use of the folate and B12 for several years AND had to undergo a LOT of stress for me to experience CFS symptoms again, so it looks like:

1) the results of prolonged effort with your protocol can be durable with a minimal but consistent amount of upkeep. Heavy use like to resolve a long-standing deficiency doesn't have to be forever, at least for some of us. I used your protocol regularly and heavily for about 3 years before achieving remission and tapering off, but was able to maintain my health gains for several years after that with minimal and sporadic folate and B12 supplementation, key mineral supplementation, and good, clean diet. I really didn't use the folate / B12 much at all in the last couple of years, which I see now was a mistake. My health has progressed to the point that my backslide could probably have been avoided by a minimal regular intake and a moderate boosting of intake during times of heavy stress.

2) Even if you backslide, recovery is MUCH quicker when you jump back on the horse. I have experienced a very fast and significant improvment in my symptoms by loading folate and B12 (with cofactors, of course). I was even having neurological symptoms, the defiiciency was so bad. All symptoms began to improve within a week of supplementation. It's been only a couple of months since I started back up and I seem to be very near full remission state again. In some ways I feel better than the last time I went into remission / recovered. Worth noting is that my diet is now very clean and has been for years, and I've also lost a significant amount of weight from when I first started the protocol back in late 2013. So my starting point is different than it was when I first began the protocol. But it's still kind of amazing how quickly the B12 and folate worked.

Anyway, what I'm really writing to ask is: are there any recommendations now for sublingual adb12 and mb12? I know sublingual will never be as good but I'm waiting on oils and don't currently have access to any more injectable. I'm almost out of injectable mb12 and would like to add adb12 back into the mix pronto.

Thanks to you again for all your hard work and posting on this forum. Your knowledge has been invaluable to me and is appreciated more than you know. You're an undercover angel.

And thanks to you or anyone who can give me recs for sublingual adb12 and mb12!

 

[Freddd]

Hi @Freddd , glad to see you are around and doing well! I haven't been around for a while because I put the vast majority of my CFS symptoms into remission for a long time with your protocol, but stopping the folate and B12 and then undergoing a significant amount of stress for a couple of years have kind of tanked me again.

Good news is that I was off regular use of the folate and B12 for several years AND had to undergo a LOT of stress for me to experience CFS symptoms again, so it looks like:

1) the results of prolonged effort with your protocol can be durable with a minimal but consistent amount of upkeep. Heavy use like to resolve a long-standing deficiency doesn't have to be forever, at least for some of us. I used your protocol regularly and heavily for about 3 years before achieving remission and tapering off, but was able to maintain my health gains for several years after that with minimal and sporadic folate and B12 supplementation, key mineral supplementation, and good, clean diet. I really didn't use the folate / B12 much at all in the last couple of years, which I see now was a mistake. My health has progressed to the point that my backslide could probably have been avoided by a minimal regular intake and a moderate boosting of intake during times of heavy stress.

2) Even if you backslide, recovery is MUCH quicker when you jump back on the horse. I have experienced a very fast and significant improvment in my symptoms by loading folate and B12 (with cofactors, of course). I was even having neurological symptoms, the defiiciency was so bad. All symptoms began to improve within a week of supplementation. It's been only a couple of months since I started back up and I seem to be very near full remission state again. In some ways I feel better than the last time I went into remission / recovered. Worth noting is that my diet is now very clean and has been for years, and I've also lost a significant amount of weight from when I first started the protocol back in late 2013. So my starting point is different than it was when I first began the protocol. But it's still kind of amazing how quickly the B12 and folate worked.

Anyway, what I'm really writing to ask is: are there any recommendations now for sublingual adb12 and mb12? I know sublingual will never be as good but I'm waiting on oils and don't currently have access to any more injectable. I'm almost out of injectable mb12 and would like to add adb12 back into the mix pronto.

Thanks to you again for all your hard work and posting on this forum. Your knowledge has been invaluable to me and is appreciated more than you know. You're an undercover angel.

And thanks to you or anyone who can give me recs for sublingual adb12 and mb12!

@whodathunkit
I don't have a favorite B12 these days. I have lost the ability to tell the difference after I found how to rebuild. From your situation I think I can help you do something different. The suggestions I am going to make helped me and several people I also have reduced my B12 by 95% so far without any problem. This is not ready for prime time. It works but isn't optimized and I'm not sure of all the nutrients. If you would like to see if it works for you and makes all brands into 5-star B12, message me and I'll tell you what I can, what I think is doing the track and how fast it works for a person can tell a lot.
e well. Thank you for letting us know about this. You obviously have been able to gain more storage time for the B12. I'm gaining that too but slower than you obviously have. So if you would like to try the "next level" let me know. It could help a lot of us. Be Well.

 

[Belgiangirl]

Here you go - I first found mention of these in Phoenix Rising via the inimitable @garyfritz - I've found them very effective. Note the inventor counsels we take selenium, molybdenum and a bit of iodine to facilitate processing of the B12, and my Dr. says I should never take B12 without methylfolate, given my genetics. We're all different, and I took 7 years before I bothered to address MTHFR status and B vitamins because I found it all overwhelming and complicated. Now I'm doing fine with Methyl Pro's L-methylfolate, and the MethylB12 oil from Australia. Site is here: http://www.b12oils.com/products.htm

You're all speaking chinese to me.

While I do have a very good GP and meds in Belgium are highly educated as far as I know, all this is very new information for me.

My blood VitB12 levels were +2000: this was seen as a risk.
This infusion i got was a mixture of watersoluable vitamins and a Vit B complex injection. What vitamins it exactly contains I can't tell, the doctor ( a specialist in many fields) didn't tell me and I am not welcome anymore since I came to late more than once and rescheduled some appointments.
Though in general this therapy - although I think it is far from evidence based despite the fact he has so many degrees - has been very useful for me.
I have had an extremely low since but I recovered quickly and I am energy-wise quiet stable, most of the time I am able to do things. Going downstairs, emptying a letterbox, it doesn't feel like the end of the world for me anymore so I am quiet good. Though I still spent around 10-12 hrs in bed daily... when I had a good night of sleep I am quiet okay.

I did indeed have strange symptoms esp burning ache when sleeping at sole of feet and in hands... at the same time i had some red spots around my mouth making me doubt it was feet and mouth disease ^^
and strange sensations of nerve blockages/tinglings after I stood up and started walking but I felt my spine also was "not in the right place". Mentally I was agitated and unable to get any sleep which was the worst and the burning sensation didn't help...
But it passed.

Unfortunately I still have cognitive symptoms - quiet bad - I seem to have impaired cognitive function after taking anticholinergica, something that didn't relieve from the IV bags and injections. While imho my other CFS symptoms (muscle weakness and extreme fatigue / lethargia / ...) are really attenuated by far and large and I am healthier than ever before, it seemed the side effects of other medication is currently impairing my life greatly. And very possibly permanently. I was highly intelligent but now I am clearly less than average ...

 

[Belgiangirl]

Specifically for B12, I also went overboard on injections at one point and it took many months for it to get back in range. I read somewhere that potassium and niacin help, but for me it just took time for the stores in the liver to be utilized.

These are some other tests to consider for possible B12 deficiency causes:

• Antiparietal Cell Antibody (APCA)
• Methylmalonic Acid (MMA)
• Intrinsic Factor Antibody (IFA)

Interesting< This doctor prescribing and giving me the IV is quiet a puzzle to me: he drew blood and no shortage of any vitamin showed up. Though I got IV infusion which the nurse told me was a vitamin mixture which would be peed out if too much and a vit B complex injection.
I moved out the city making it to hard to keep coming back for the IVs rescheduling my appointments and being late because of traffic. Now I would go to speak about what was next or what progression I made but I overslept.... they were angry and saw this as rude and disrespectful so I am not welcome there anymore.

Though on this blood lab I found myself things he did never mention like EBV ++++ (while I already had this so I am one of the rare ones that relapses apparently), very low immune cells (leukocytes? trought stating this by heart so can be wrong). More shockingly a positive ANA test at 1:160 speckled with no specific markers colouring.

While in 2010 I was so bad that I got into the hospital they tested me on coeliakie and everything bcs of big and to few RBCS and all the strange symptoms I did have. I remember them having hypotheses like to low vit B12 and intrinsic factor?? but they couldn't confirm: my vit b 12 level was fine. According to my knowledge it has never been low.
Though i think 5 yrs after (too ill to be mobile) I visited a reumatologist and l am very sure i saw something like intrinsic factor problems and I know I had anti parietal antibodies. As is normal in Belgium of course no one told me anything about it .... so it never was spoken about with a doctor.
Testing here is very conservative, is contra-advised in people diagnosed with CFSME so doctors got specific instructions not to test us and blood lab abnormalities are not discussed but seen as non-significant coïncidents.
With this IV doctor I thought I had someone seeing the real big picture (he is an endocrinologist, immunologist/allergolist and general internal medicine doctor at the same time!) but unfortunately this ends and I can only hope not to get worse again... It is very strange that this IV refuled me and everyone is sceptic about it but what I feel my muscle weakness is go and more strange: for the first time in 34 yers my cheeks and skin do have a colour -even a bit reddish- and are not scaringly pale!!!! Even though I have a recurrence of EBV on this very moment....

 

[Belgiangirl]

Three things :

1) Vitamin B6 is one of those vitamins that can cause toxicity symptoms as well as deficiency symptoms. If you have too much of it you can get neuropathy problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Deficiency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Toxicity

2) There is a relationship between vitamin B12 and potassium. You would need to do some research into it because I'm not clear what that relationship is. I supplement with B vitamins (not a high dose) and B12 (a high dose) in tablet form. I also have to supplement potassium (I don't take much, but without it I get restless legs) because it seems to get depleted when I supplement the B vitamins, particularly B12.

3) In order for the body to make use of B12 in the body you also need good levels of folate. Supplementing with folic acid is not a good idea, instead methylfolate is much better. See this link :

https://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid/

I spoke with my gp over this but he denied this and another doctor also did.

So they say blood lab levels of vit B12 are giving insight of levels in the body, no other test is needed.
Nothing else is necesarry.
How is this possible. Where are you guts from and where did you got this knowledge or insights from?
It seems the average belgian doctor does know less, or we have falls assumptions, about suplementation, vitamins and everything. I also wouldn't know of any doctor who knows about vitamin supplementation, dieting and all that stuff who does testing at the same time.

 

[Spleenpoker]

Hi Spleenpoker,

Message me. I'll give you some info that is not ready for primetime as well as some that is. They fit together, I think. Let's figure out what will work for you.

Cheers @Freddd, sent you a PM. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

So can anyone give me some clarification regarding the difference between a capsule MB12 and sublingual? Is there any special ingredient that makes it sublingual or can I just put the powder from the capsule under my tongue?

 

[whodathunkit]

As long as it's a good quality supp, capsules are probably better. Sublinguals tend to have mannitol or sorbitol or some other sugar alcohol in them. If you have capsules you can just dump than under your tongue.


==

 

[planemaker]

Dear all,

I have been reading this thread and following this protocol for a while.
I am now taking 5mg mB12, 1.5mg ab12, 1.5 mg folate and carnitine, suppllementinG 2/3 k potassium chloride a day+ magnesium, vit B.

This brings me a lot of improvement in my condition and especially in the brain fog I had.

However, it seems I am in a vicious circle and it seems I am navigating back and forth between potassium and folate deficiency.
Whenever i take potassium to relieve my muscle cramps and heart pounding, I start having what I consider as folate deficiency symptoms (nose running, coated tongue). This is where I take folate and then the potassium defiency is showing. It’s endless and frustrating.

I also have very red color around the mouth (is it folate deficiency symptoms) but also some itching in my skull.

Is there something I am missing? Could you give me some advice?

Thanks a lot

 

[Learner1]

The best way of knowing is to do lab testing. Knowing nothing about your genes, your level of toxicity or your overall nutrient status, it's pretty difficult to advise.

However, as you start adding nutrients to pathways that have been stuck, things start running, and you may find yourself short of something you had enough of before. Or, you could be running out of cofactors at the next step in a pathway, once you've busted through a bottleneck.

Could be folate.

But, you've said nothing about magnesium, B2, or B6 which are used in the methionine pathway, too. Or n-acetyl-cysteine, glycine, or glutamine, which are needed to make glutathione after you've exited the methionine cycle. Or B1 and molybdenum, which are needed in the transsulfuration pathway.

A comprehensive test, like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval would be best in untangling this. Or an OAT test.

Or, if those aren't possible, you could do a CBC and look at MCV - if it's 95 or over, you're likely short of folate or B12. If you do methylmalonic acid (and NOT serum B12) a high value means you're deficient, and a low one means you're not, which would point to folate. If you then measured homocysteine and you had enough folate and B12, that eoukd point to B6 deficiency. RBC magnesium would tell if you had enough magnesium. But, a comprehensive test would cover more and guide you better.

Best wishes...

 

[Freddd]

Dear all,

I have been reading this thread and following this protocol for a while.
I am now taking 5mg mB12, 1.5mg ab12, 1.5 mg folate and carnitine, suppllementinG 2/3 k potassium chloride a day+ magnesium, vit B.

This brings me a lot of improvement in my condition and especially in the brain fog I had.

However, it seems I am in a vicious circle and it seems I am navigating back and forth between potassium and folate deficiency.
Whenever i take potassium to relieve my muscle cramps and heart pounding, I start having what I consider as folate deficiency symptoms (nose running, coated tongue). This is where I take folate and then the potassium defiency is showing. It’s endless and frustrating.

I also have very red color around the mouth (is it folate deficiency symptoms) but also some itching in my skull.

Is there something I am missing? Could you give me some advice?

Thanks a lot

Hi planemaker,

Of course. Folate starts up with healing in one or more compartments and deficiency symptoms in one or more compartments that don't have enough methylfolate for those compartments.

I titrated up for 150+ symptoms, a few at a time that were stalling until I reached a dose that got rid of ALL folate bottleneck symptoms. At 4 mg or so daily (4 or 5 times 800 mcg tablets a day, most effectective each 3-8 hours apart. I found the low doses below 4 mg caused huge numbers of folate bottleneck symptoms (200 at peak) and with each 50% reduced the severity of a lot of symptoms and above about 8mg the actual numbers started going down fast.

So each time you increase methylfolate and most other things are adequate, cells will get made that need to be made. Most of the time the increased need for potassium is a flag that cell formation is taking place.

In two years at the height of healing I lost 85 pounds of water, lost 50 pounds of fat and grew 50 pounds of previously atrophied muscles. I had refeeding syndrome and needed 4000+ mg of potassium through. the day. Part of my problem with that appears to be short serum level.

So the more healing you have going on the more the more potassium, and protein, and micronutrients and other vitamins, ALL of them, to make lots of good cells that are needed by the body.

At the link below are lists of symptoms that respond to the various nutrients combinations.

I currently take 45mg a day of methylfolate (3x 15 mg daily). My potassium need has dropped from 4000+ mg daily to about 1000 mg. My need for B12 has dropped dramatically. My balance is improving and it has taken 16 yeas so far once I had found the answers.

The titrating and such can only be learned. And that ALL micronutrients need to be taken to avoid making damaged cells that occur by their lack.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186[/QUOTE]

 

[planemaker]

Hi Fredd & Learner1
Thanks for taking the time to answer to me. It’s a wealth of information you provided to me.

My main symptoms are Brain fog, learning issues. anxiety (without reason), depresssion that I managed to alleviate with Tyrosine and 5-htp. I am convinced some nutrient deficiency is at the origin of these lacks.
I don't know if these issues are the cause or a consequence of issues I have with m liver and strong ferritin which I think cause inflammation

@ Learner1
I will investigate on the various test but you are right I forgot to mention the other elements. Nutreval is not available where I live but I have spotted some OAT labs.
My MCV was 95 few years ago but it has decreased since. My Homocysteine is in the upper range but still in range. In addition of these elements, I checked MMA few months ago and it was low so that's the reason why I thought B12 was not the culprit of my symptoms

I am taking Vitamin D (I was deficient), Magnesium (I sometimes feel the symptoms of deficiency too).

@ Fredd,
Your view is also very useful to me as I never had the "courage" to take so much Folate even though I felt much better every time I took this supplement. I also need to take a lot of potassium but according to your post, it seems necessary at the beginning
So it means that as I am taking more folate, I will also uncover some other processes where folate is necessary and it will last until I reach a certain threshold?
It would totally be in line with what I do feel. I am very excited on trying this.

But I would I few questions.
Should I keep on taking the 2 B12s (5mg and 1.5mg). And in that case should it be, increased in parallel with Folate? Any other nutrient I should pay attention to raise when doing this? How is calcium important? This is the only nutrient I dont take.

A last question: What is titration you mentioned? how does it work?

Thank you!

thierry

 

[Learner1]

@planemaker Each one of us has a unique genetic makeup and unique environmental exposures which will greatly alter needs, even in the same person. So you need to find what works for you, not other people.

45mg a day of folate is extremely high. Too much as well as too little folate can promote cancer, so in today's world, where testing is available, it is worthwhile to use it.

Freddd is right about your need for other nutrients increasing with folate. All of these nutrients are needed in methylation. You don't necessarily need to take all of them, but if you raise your folate to a huge amount, you'll probably need to at least look at them.

You'll also need adequate glycine, glutamine and n-acetyl-cysteine to make glutathione and B1 and molybdenum for the transsulfuration pathway.

If you can't do a NutrEval, it would be wise to use more than one test and figure out what's going on. The OAT test was not 100% accurate for me for the Bs - it said I was high in B5 and B6 but I was taking a lot and other markers said I was deficient.

You can figure out if its B6 if methylmalonic acid and folate are ok. B3 can be made from B6.

Homocysteine, MCV, RBC folate, methylmalonic acid, RBC magnesium, and selenium, serum potassium, and an amino acid panel might all be useful.

Best wishes...

 

[Freddd]

Hi Fredd & Learner1
Thanks for taking the time to answer to me. It’s a wealth of information you provided to me.

My main symptoms are Brain fog, learning issues. anxiety (without reason), depresssion that I managed to alleviate with Tyrosine and 5-htp. I am convinced some nutrient deficiency is at the origin of these lacks.
I don't know if these issues are the cause or a consequence of issues I have with m liver and strong ferritin which I think cause inflammation

@ Learner1
I will investigate on the various test but you are right I forgot to mention the other elements. Nutreval is not available where I live but I have spotted some OAT labs.
My MCV was 95 few years ago but it has decreased since. My Homocysteine is in the upper range but still in range. In addition of these elements, I checked MMA few months ago and it was low so that's the reason why I thought B12 was not the culprit of my symptoms

I am taking Vitamin D (I was deficient), Magnesium (I sometimes feel the symptoms of deficiency too).

@ Fredd,
Your view is also very useful to me as I never had the "courage" to take so much Folate even though I felt much better every time I took this supplement. I also need to take a lot of potassium but according to your post, it seems necessary at the beginning
So it means that as I am taking more folate, I will also uncover some other processes where folate is necessary and it will last until I reach a certain threshold?
It would totally be in line with what I do feel. I am very excited on trying this.

But I would I few questions.
Should I keep on taking the 2 B12s (5mg and 1.5mg). And in that case should it be, increased in parallel with Folate? Any other nutrient I should pay attention to raise when doing this? How is calcium important? This is the only nutrient I dont take.

A last question: What is titration you mentioned? how does it work?

Thank you!

thierry

@theirry,

I found that first I titrated the amount per dose up from 200 mcg to where it finally improving obviously some of the symptoms that or mostpromanent or just increasing. Each time you start making that group of cells, watch all your skin lesions and cracks and irritations and such and find the dose that repeated 3 or 4 times each day get rid of some symptoms (compartment) and then usually there is a need for increasing potassium an increment after about 3 days usually. This all goes by symptoms on the list. One needs ALL micronutrients or special cells needing them fail and do damage. The back and forth between methylfolate and potassium is quite normal for people whos body is working in that mode. It can change suddenly after maybe a year of the micronutrients if all needed ones are taken. I increase K-gluconate powder by half a teaspoon (375mg) several times a day. Each compartment of increased healing increases need for potassium, phosphorus (lecithin and other supplements) and basic every vitamin and minerals and fats or cells fail.

As far as B12 goes what typically happens is at some point you need to determine how often you have to take AdoCbl compared with MeCbl, and that can change during healing. If you can tell the difference between those that means a specific mode of things occurring and when all the b12s are the same, means a different mode. In that mode there are LOTS of changes in how things work.
Fred

 

[Idie]

@whodathunkit
I don't have a favorite B12 these days. I have lost the ability to tell the difference after I found how to rebuild. From your situation I think I can help you do something different. The suggestions I am going to make helped me and several people I also have reduced my B12 by 95% so far without any problem. This is not ready for prime time. It works but isn't optimized and I'm not sure of all the nutrients. If you would like to see if it works for you and makes all brands into 5-star B12, message me and I'll tell you what I can, what I think is doing the track and how fast it works for a person can tell a lot.
e well. Thank you for letting us know about this. You obviously have been able to gain more storage time for the B12. I'm gaining that too but slower than you obviously have. So if you would like to try the "next level" let me know. It could help a lot of us. Be Well.

Hi Freddd, Its Idie, Glad to hear about your being able to reduce your B12. I have been on this journey for over a decade and would love to reduce my B12. I’m not very savvy at private messaging but would love to know more. How do I PM you?

 

[NeoMonk710]

Can someone tell me if starting B12 might cause random sharp pains in my hands and feet? I've rarely had these pains in the past but they seem to be directly tied to taking B12 (which until I started taking B2 I wasn't able to take because it made me lethargic). I've seen some references in other posts relating to cell rejuvenation but I hadn't seen anyone say "starting B12 caused sharp pains in my feet/hands". I just need to know if I should keep going with B12 or stop.

I came to this forum because I had edema and saw that Freddd was taking methyl-folate for it. It's also worked for me. Thanks Freddd! So, taking B12 isn't a need but up until the pain, I thought it'd be helpful.

 

[Tammy]

anyone say "starting B12 caused sharp pains in my feet/hands".

My pain in general got worse when starting B12. I started over with a lower dose and worked up slowly. I take B12 drops so it's easy to titrate. ...........So yes, my pain got initially worse........sharp pains in hips mostly.......and feet........but this finally went away. I think B12 is one of the most important supplements for good reason.......... I wouldn't give up on taking it.

 

[NeoMonk710]

My pain in general got worse when starting B12. I started over with a lower dose and worked up slowly. I take B12 drops so it's easy to titrate. ...........So yes, my pain got initially worse........sharp pains in hips mostly.......and feet........but this finally went away. I think B12 is one of the most important supplements for good reason.......... I wouldn't give up on taking it.

Hi Tammy, sounds like you had some pain prior to taking B12 and that when you started B12 that it got worse. Has anyone not had pain until taking B12?