B-12 - The Hidden Story

[whodathunkit]

There is so much to "Like" in this thread, especially recently, that rather than wearing out my mouse hitting the "Like" button (only recently disocvered by me), I just want to say thanks to Freddd, Radio, Shah, and everyone who's asked the questions that are provoking these great responses. What a learning experience.

 

[girlfromeurope]

do mb12 sublinguals convert to hydroxy b12 too when exposed to light?
Or only the injections?

 

[Freddd]

do mb12 sublinguals convert to hydroxy b12 too when exposed to light?
Or only the injections?

Not that I know of. As far as I know It takes an aqueous solution. In any case in a solid it would be limited to the surface as light wouldn't penetrate.

 

[CaliObserver]

Not that I know of. As far as I know It takes an aqueous solution. In any case in a solid it would be limited to the surface as light wouldn't penetrate.

I've been curious about this too I'm glad you asked it @girlfromeurope. Your answer makes sense to me @Freddd.

 

[mgd1972]

@Freddd I'm reposting these responses in case you missed them. Really curious to know what I should be increasing or decreasing and by how much at a time. I'm waiting for my next shipment of mb12 from iherb, so have stopped taking the adb12, should I stop everything?

@Freddd

P.s. more questions for you, Freddd:

- in what range should my Methylfolate intake be in, and do I need to increase as I increase the b12? Is it best taken over the day or,is all at once in the morning okay? Is 5-MTHF the right kind?
- what am I looking for in a b complex? Other than no folic acid
- how did you know I would have group 3 symptoms based on what I am taking? Too much b12? Do I need to change anything? I plan to add in zinc and probably e and a. Do you take a good multi or individual vitamins?

Sorry for all the questions. I have read tons on this thread but I find a lot of it over my head. Brain fog doesn't help.

Hi Freddd,

I find it hard to differentiate between new and perhaps recurring symptoms, but here is what I'm currently experiencing:

Bad acne, across my forehead especially
Irritability - e.g. Can't stand the sound of someone tapping their fingers
Some muscle twitching (I try to take more potassium when I notice, usually 500 mg at a time, should I take more?)
Increased fatigue (which may be from work, where I have been steadily increasing my hours)
Increased headaches, often a sharp headache when I first get up in the morning
Slight dizziness sometimes, particularly when I stand up quickly (this is not new to me, but more noticeable)
Somewhat more constipated
Slight nausea (but have had stomach flu in the family recentl, including me)

Hard to say if these are worse than usual, but I also have

Chronic sinus issues, runny nose
Mouth sores
Dry, dry skin including bad dandruff
Achy muscles

Looks like you are right - a lot of group 3. Should I increase the Methylfolate?

 

[Freddd]

@Radio

The H2S that is made. I had the experience, a few times for a few days each time only, of after an extended period of edema, I found my urine stunk like disturbed rotting swamp material. I wonder if that could account for the stink in the urine. It was very temporary, perhaps on the way through a transitional state.

 

[Radio]

@Radio

The H2S that is made. I had the experience, a few times for a few days each time only, of after an extended period of edema, I found my urine stunk like disturbed rotting swamp material. I wonder if that could account for the stink in the urine. It was very temporary, perhaps on the way through a transitional state.

Hey Fred,

I've had this experience as well...Especially, when I used to eat pizza and drank beer. (The good old days). Also, consuming a high animal protein diet has triggered the stinky urine in me. The skin issues we are seeing could be connected to the limit capacity of the liver to eliminate this toxic hydrogen sulfide.

There is a catch 22 at play here. We need to avoid consuming to much (glucose) and carbohydrates to keep dysbiosis in check. But, at the same time we need these sugars to fuel the Mitochondria and Extracellular matrix.

I am now advocating testing urinary hydrogen sulphide to see if in fact we do have dysbiosis or a related metabolic problems.

Urinary hydrogen sulphide test for dysbiosis a simple, at-home test you can order through www.proteabiopharma.com.



Sulfur-Sulphate-Reducing-Bacteria
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/sulfur-sulphate-reducing-bacteria.28498/

Extracellular-Matrix-Mast-Cell-Connection.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/extracellular-matrix-mast-cell-connection.28396/

 

[yukito]

Does somebody know if it's okay to supplement with 500 mg potassium doses
Or should it be more spread out?

You could try to personalize the doses following the "what my body needs he will receive with
complacency" When I think I could be in hypokaelemia,to know immediately if I really need it, I put some potassium gluconate or citrate ON THE TONGUE,after I can take a little amount of water and keep the mixture in my mouth,
1)if I really need potassium I can feel like relieved with disappearance of depression,
2)if I need it modestly,I can have some greater contraction of all muscles, including those of the eyes (best focus),
3)If I don't need it,it will make me feel tense and with a propensity to spit out the mixture.
if the reaction is more like the number 1(very rare) i take 1000mg even in a empty stomach and some dark chocolate 40 minutes,after.
if more like the number 2 i take 500mg in a empty stomach and some dark chocolate after.
if more like number 3 I ,I don't take potassium and try rather other minerals magnesium first and then calcium,manganese,zinc,etc...sometimes it isn't minerals that are needed and then it can be other vitamins if not I try,theobromine(cacao) or caffeine(tea,coffie) they can relieve my muscle tension sometimes.

 

[girlfromeurope]

Another question!

I was wondering, I've read that niacin uses up methyl groups, but then why are we all taking a b-complex that contains niacin(some have more than 100mg) if that slows down methylation? isn't it better to cut out niacin?

 

[howirecovered]

Another question!

I was wondering, I've read that niacin uses up methyl groups, but then why are we all taking a b-complex that contains niacin(some have more than 100mg) if that slows down methylation? isn't it better to cut out niacin?

I think niacin at bedtime helps me sleep better. I tend to sleep poorly when methylation is cranking...

The timing of methylation supports has a big effect on me. Recently I changed around the timing of my lecithin supplement and got a huge response.

 

[girlfromeurope]

I think my b12 deficiency symptoms come back when I take niacin.

 

[Myrtle]

Hello all,

Can anyone tell me how important it is to start the protocol (quoted below, posted by @Gloria H on P141 of this thread) in the order it is listed?

Are the doses listed the starting doses or the doses we are aiming to build up to?
If they are the starting doses, what are we aiming to build up to?
If they are the final doses, what do we start off at?

The reason I ask is that I am currently on 5mg of Methyl B12 and have been for a couple of years (not that I have noticed any difference from it). Do I stop the Methyl B12 I am currently on and start over in the order listed below?

A was also taking Acetyl L-carnitine (alcar) but I stopped that about 5 days ago as I suspected it was interfering with my levothyroxine absorption. I do feel a bit better but am not sure if it because of stopping the alcar or not. What are the chances of the L-carnitine fumarate interfering with my levothyroxine? Does taking it in conjunction with the other methylation supplements prevent this from happening?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this @Freddd

Thanks

Myrtle

1. 1 capsule of L-carnitine fumarate on an empty stomach (available in about 400 – 800 mg capsules)
If there are no new negative start up symptoms (like feeling super hyped & wired) keep
taking it every day.
If there are new negative start up symptoms (like feeling super hyped & wired), you’ll need to titrate up gradually until you’re comfortable with 1 capsule/day. That may mean taking 1/10 of a capsule. As your body gets use to having this long missing nutrient, you’ll gradually increase (titrate up) your daily amount to 1/5 capsule, then 1/2 a capsule etc. until you’re doing 1 capsule daily. You can take days or weeks to do this titrating. Don’t rush your body. When your body is use to 1 capsule of L-carnitine fumerate per day, continue that and start:

2. 1 Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion (1,000 mcg MeB12) after breakfast, placing the tablet
between upper lip and gum, for as long as it takes to dissolve. When your body is settled with
this, start:

3. 1 Solgar Folate (800 mcg Metafolin) with breakfast
If there are no new start up symptoms (new headaches, rashes, irritabilities, anxieties,
depressions, joint pains, muscle pains, insomnia, continue with this amount daily.
If there are new negative start up symptoms (new headaches, rashes, irritabilities,
anxieties, depressions, joint pains, muscle pains, insomnia) you’ll need to titrate up gradually until you’re comfortable with 1 capsule/day. Then continue the Folate and start:

4. Country Life Active B-12 Dibencozide (3,000 mcg AdB12), after breakfast, 3 X week, placing
the tablet between upper lip and gum, for as long as it takes to dissolve.

5. Potassium (99 mg tablets) taken with a glass of water, as needed, anytime during the introduction of the previous 4 supplements, if new nausea, itching, heart palpitations, weakness, muscle spasms or cramps start happening. For some, several potassium tablets may be needed, several times a day.

 

[pela]

Myrtle, I would think you'd want to start with the B12s and folate, and add LCF later. You want to have potassium on hand if and when you need it.

Please note that Country life ADB12 contains folic acid and is not recommended. Try Source Naturals didencozide or Anabol Naturals dibencoplex instead.

 

[Myrtle]

@pela,

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

Myrtle

 

[keenly]

Hi Keenly,

As a 5 Star MeCbl is 100 to 10,000 times more effective than HyCbl, you might consider a switch to something effective. Further L-methylfolate and the correct carnitine can make far more difference.

Hi Freddd. I have used Methylcobalamin on and off recently at doses from 5mg-12mg daily. Helps my sleep immensely. Does not help my allergies like Hydroxycobalamin though. It does not help my legs to feel light. Each B12 helps different symptoms.

 

[AngieLynn]

Hi Freddd,

I've gotten on pretty much everything you've recommended for the starter program.

I'm wondering how much methyl folate I can safely take per day? I'm homozygous for C677T and want to make certain I'm getting enough. I'd like to go to the upper limit of safe.

So right now I'm on:

- 2400 mg of methylfolate in the morning, a second dose of 2000 mg of methylfolate in the afternoon, and another 1000 mg an hour or two after that.

- 6000 mcg meb12 two times a day

- approximately 3000-4000 mcg adb12 two times a day

- around 900 mg L-carnitine

- 50 mg p-5-p a day

- 875 mg of TMG

- Potassium as needed for symptoms (sometimes I don't seem to need it, and sometimes I need a lot - maybe 1000 mg or more)

Thanks!

 

[AngieLynn]

Is this thread still in use? I wrote to Freddd back on March 17th, and haven't heard from him. I don't see anyone else posting here either. Is there somewhere else I should post questions? I have several more on top of my last post, and could really use the help.

 

[ahmo]

@AngieLynn Freddd hasn't been posting for the past month. The thread is still active. cheers, ahmo

 

[whodathunkit]

Angie, much of what's in your last post can only really be answered by you. You have to go more on how you feel rather than what "conventional wisdom" says is the upper limit of anything. Everyone's requirements are different. My upper limit may be much bigger or smaller than yours, for example.

I will say that I read somewhere that people have taken up to 60mg methylfolate per day in the prescription form. That's not an accepted dose or advisable for long-term by any means, especially for self-dosers, but apparently it's been done and it's helped some people. Personally I've been taking 30mg doses daily for a couple of months to see if it benefits my fibroids. I'm not comfortable taking such big dose long term, however, so will be ramping the dose down soon. This is just an experiment. I was up to about 40mg/day for a little while with no ill effects, but brought it down to 30mg.

From what I understand the key is to take enough of everything to keep you feeling good and not exhibiting any negative symptoms. I plan to gradually ramp my folate dose down to just above the point where it affects my well-being, for example. When I start exhibiting negative sides I'll bump it up a little until the sides disappear, and then leave my dose there unless or until it becomes clear that dose is no longer appropriate. Then I'll tinker some more.

If you're feeling good on the regimen you posted then keep going with it. To my eyes it looks pretty good.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Radio
Regarding the strange urine smell I might be saying this out of pure ignorance, or perhaps someone else already said that elsewhere. According to the book "Potassium Nutrition" dietary sulfites (fermented and pickled foods, wine, beer, gelatin, baked goods etc) degrade vitamin B1 in the intestines and diuretics cause loss of B1.

I have noticed the strange urine smell when I take gel caps of fish oil and Gamma E Complex and when I read the mentioned book I thought the smell was due to loss of B1 in the urine. Right now I am off both supplements, but I do need the vit E badly and am considering to open the gel cap and pour it on my salad. Regarding the fish oil, I will have to replenish my copper levels before reintroducing it.

izzy