Anyone tried ketamine?

RYO

Senior Member
Messages
303
Likes
705
Location
USA
@Sushi
Did you end up trying Ketamine? I have had 2 physicians recommend that I try ketamine to help chronic neuropathic pain. I found a nearby physician who prescribes low dose ketamine patches. I am a little apprehensive about trying higher dose IV ketamine.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
17,067
Likes
26,479
Location
Albuquerque
Just heard on the news that they gave Ketamine to the Thai boys who were rescued from the cave. They needed to prevent them struggling in fear and knocking off their diving masks--so they knocked them out with Ketamine! Interesting.
 

Sancar

Sick of being sick ~ and so is my walking buddy
Messages
90
Likes
114
Location
So Cal USA
@Sushi :music: Thank ,you for that information. Interesting how the application was for anxiety basically. Something I deal with for no apparent reason. I attribute my anxiety to my “nerve” issues which go on unresolved.

@RYO ? How are you doing with the Ketamine parches? Are they helping? Any notable difference for you? What is the dose per patch? How long did you wear them? Thanks for sharing your story....
 

RYO

Senior Member
Messages
303
Likes
705
Location
USA
@Sancar
Sorry but I never moved ahead with trying the Ketamine patches. They would not have been covered by insurance and I was too ill to travel. I am uncertain they would have helped with the chronic pain of small fiber polyneuropathy. I did try ketamine in topical cream from a compound pharmacy. They had no effect. I am not sure if ketamine would have other beneficial effects. I suspect that in post infectious ME/CFS patients, that damage to the autonomic nervous system makes us more susceptible to symptoms such as unexplained tachycardia, medication sensitivity, and alcohol intolerance.
 
Last edited:

debored13

Senior Member
Messages
1,835
Likes
1,996
Location
Vermont, school in Western MA
I'm curious where you get your transdermal magnesium? Is it more potent than simply supplementing with 400 mg or higher of oral magnesium?

I have yet to find a domestic seller of xenon gas for human use. I found a Chinese one on Ebay but I'm not sure I trust the source. He told me it's human grade. I don't know how to use it. Do I inhale it?

Regarding Ketamine; lots of people talked about the nasal spray version. Where are you people getting it? I know Ketamine is still a scheduled drug yet ketamine infusion clinics are popping up all over the U.S. with a price tag of $500 (insurance don't cover this). I was told that 500 mg is administered if I'm not mistaken. It's cheaper to just find a good ketamine source and administer it my self. I've seen these in vials going for less than $20. I was also told that powder versions for snorting also exists.

I wonder when the Johnson & Johnson company is going to put out their S-ketamine nasal spray? Last I read about it was about 2 years ago. The article mentioned that in 2017 we will see it in the market.
where is your Chinese source of xenon on eBay? I would not trust a source of xenon gas that is very cheap for a small amount. It’s very expensive to extract from the atmosphere and can be had for reasonable prices when buying in bulk, but buying a one-off of xenon for cheap price seems sketchy. However it’s probably possible to figure out of what you have is xenon via some other method, without inhaling it directly. The other thing that would concern me is the seller describing it as “human grade”. That’s not a term I’ve heard used to describe drugs , usually I would hear “medical grade”, “food grade” , but have never heard of “human grade”
 

debored13

Senior Member
Messages
1,835
Likes
1,996
Location
Vermont, school in Western MA
Since this thread has come back to life, I may as well post my updated list of NMDA receptor inhibitors. Inhibiting NMDA receptor activation will reduce anxiety symptoms, and protect against excitotoxicity.


NMDA inhibitors /antagonists

Magnesium — a potent NMDA inhibitor. High dose transdermal application, or injection, required for maximum effect.

Zinc

Progesterone (a hormonal supplement usually sold as a transdermal cream)

Huperzine A (a supplement)

Taurine (taurine also activates GABA receptors)

Amantadine (antiviral drug, also used for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's)

Agmatine (a supplement)

Lithium

Dextromethorphan (DXM) — an over-the-counter cough mixture (cough suppressant)

Dextrorphan (DXO) is an active metabolite of DXM. DXO a psychedelic drug and cough suppressant, is a much more potent NMDA antagonist than DXM. DXM is converted to DXO in the body by cytochrome P450 2D6 isoenzyme (aka: CYP2D6). Thus cytochrome P450 2D6 inhibitors such as imipramine, propranolol, quinine and citalopram may decrease the effect of DXM.

Dantrolene (muscle relaxant)

Orphenadrine (muscle relaxant)

Methadone (opiate)

Dextropropoxyphene (weak opiate)

Ketamine — an anesthetic and recreational drug.

Riluzole (ALS drug)

Memantine (Namenda)

Ibogaine — the hallucinogenic active principal from the root bark of Tabernanthe iboga. Microdoses of around 50 mg daily of Tabernanthe iboga root bark will not produce a hallucinogenic effect, but still have therapeutic effects. Tabernanthe iboga root bark is legal to buy in the UK, but not in the US.

Nitrous oxide (N2O) — an anesthetic gas (often used in dentistry) and and recreational drug. Also know as laughing gas. Depletes vitamin B12.

Guaifenesin (possibly?) — an over-the-counter decongestant. The guaifenesin protocol is a fibromyalgia and ME/CFS treatment.

Xenon gas. An anesthetic gas.

Cat's claw (Uncaria tomentosa) — the rhynchophylline constituent of this herb may inhibit the NMDA receptor.

Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) — a MAO-inhibitor herb. MAO-inhibitors should never be taken with nexavir/kutapressin, which contain tyramine.


Dangerous/Toxic NMDA inhibitors/antagonists:

Lead is a potent inhibitor of the NMDA receptor.

Phencyclidine (PCP, angel dust). Some studies found that, like other NMDA receptor antagonists, phencyclidine can cause a certain kind of brain damage called Olney's lesions in rats.

Kynurenic acid (high levels associated with schizophrenia and pychosis).


NMDA agonists:

Glutamate
Glycine
Ammonia
i would add to the list kratom as it has the same nmda antagonists as cats claw does , but just has additional properties from its unique delta opioid agonists
 

debored13

Senior Member
Messages
1,835
Likes
1,996
Location
Vermont, school in Western MA
A while ago, I had a severe problems with mental tension and anxiety, which I think is caused from NMDA overstimulation. I have compiled a list of safe supplements that reduce the sensitivity of the NMDA receptor. If you take several of these together, they do work. They act as anxiolytics.

Here is the list of NMDA inhibitors:

Transdermal Magnesium - potent
Taurine
Guaifenesin
Cats claw - possibly
L-Huperzine A
Zinc
Progesterone (transdermal)

Ibogaine

Amantadine, Ketamine, Riluzole, Memantine, Dextromethorphan

Nitrous oxide, xenon gas
xenon of course the most promising out of all of the psychoactive nmda antagonists , but prohibitively expensive
 

RYO

Senior Member
Messages
303
Likes
705
Location
USA
@Sushi :music: Thank ,you for that information. Interesting how the application was for anxiety basically. Something I deal with for no apparent reason. I attribute my anxiety to my “nerve” issues which go on unresolved.

@RYO ? How are you doing with the Ketamine parches? Are they helping? Any notable difference for you? What is the dose per patch? How long did you wear them? Thanks for sharing your story....

I just thought I would provide an update. Due to persistent neuropathic pain, I tried using topical ketamine cream (10%) from a compound pharmacy a second time. Unfortunately, I had difficulty tolerating other treatments such as TCAs, gabapentin, and cymbalta. During my second trial, I applied higher amount/dose. It has helped take the edge off the chronic burning/aching sensation in my lower legs.

I recently read an article about FDA possibly approving intranasal ketamine for severe depression. If cost of esketamine is not prohibitive, I wonder if it might help brain fog and other neuro symptoms.
 

debored13

Senior Member
Messages
1,835
Likes
1,996
Location
Vermont, school in Western MA
I just thought I would provide an update. Due to persistent neuropathic pain, I tried using topical ketamine cream (10%) from a compound pharmacy a second time. Unfortunately, I had difficulty tolerating other treatments such as TCAs, gabapentin, and cymbalta. During my second trial, I applied higher amount/dose. It has helped take the edge off the chronic burning/aching sensation in my lower legs.

I recently read an article about FDA possibly approving intranasal ketamine for severe depression. If cost of esketamine is not prohibitive, I wonder if it might help brain fog and other neuro symptoms.
well I know the cost of ketamine on the black market is usually not particularly high and it’s an old drug so I would think it would be cheap. The infusion centers probably charge so much for the service of administering big doses of it to you and watching your vitals and stuff.
 

debored13

Senior Member
Messages
1,835
Likes
1,996
Location
Vermont, school in Western MA
I think ketamine would probably be helpful for pain starting around 20 mg intranasally. I remember that there are sources of it that were less than 100 $ for a few grams and I was fairly sure of no cuts/high purity. If your insurance covers it it should be available to get pretty cheap although the fee of compounding is also an issue
 

Jackb23

Senior Member
Messages
120
Likes
289
I’ve done around 26 infusions of ketamine now. I have done a series of 12, series of 8, and a series of 6. All of them were 0.5mg/kg. Had very mixed results. There were some benefits, but it also made my sleep a ton worse. The results were never consistent. One series would wake me up and give me energy, the next would make me more tired. We are all different so I don’t want to discourage anyone. Overall, I would say that it doesn’t hurt to try. If you can’t source it (legally or not), dextromethorphan also works in a similar way. Make sure you aren’t sensitive to serotonin, however. Also, N20, or nitrous oxide is being investigated currently and it appears it works very similar to ketamine as an antidepressant. N2O is also much easier to obtain, but more caution should be taken since it has the potential to be quite toxic. Will give a more thorough response in the next few days as I am a bit burnt out right now.
 

Jackb23

Senior Member
Messages
120
Likes
289
What I’ll also add is this: The one thing that ketamine did consistently give me every time was an escape from all the morose feelings that have ensued from being a handicapped version of what I was before I grew ill. It allowed me to bypass the galling feeling that I would constantly obsess over which is “when will this be over. When will they find a cure?”. I found myself able to wallow in a very low functioning state without my awareness burning a hole through my mood. I’ll put it this way— It made me content. The pressures that I did have mostly came from the outside pressures of my parents and their expectations for me. In the future, if i wanted to kill long periods of times waiting around (months to years) in the least horrific way possible, ketamine infusions would be my first stop. As far as energy goes, it definitely spiked my glutamate in many areas of my brain. Some of these were good, others bad. I hadn’t previously had any sleep issues and never had to use sleep aids. After ketamine however, falling asleep was a nightmare. Despite a lack of clarity in my thinking, my body refused to go to sleep. I ended up having to try very harsh programs to sleep. At first I supplemented with a few Benadryl (50-100 mgs). After more and more infusions I was eventually up to 12.5 mg ambien, 1.5 grams clonazepam, and around 150-250 mg of Benadryl a night. I would take these medicines around midnight but often times they wouldn’t work and I would be forced to watch the sun come up while suffering numerous anticholinergic delirium symptoms. After this, my dr and I employed a new program which consisted of skipping a few nights of sleep every week. The rational behind this was if I were to skip a night of sleep, the next night I would be extra tired and I would be able to sleep. I would sleep 5/7 nights a week. These were brutal. Often times I still had to take all of my medicines and still wouldn’t fall asleep until 5 am. My whole body would ache, I would start to get delusional, and I was no longer allowed to drive due to fear I would crash. It’s been 5 months since my last infusion and my sleep is getting better slowly but surely. I am now only taking half the medicines, I no longer have to do skip days, and I always fall asleep before the sun comes up.
So in conclusion, if i could see the future and knew that I had a few years to kill— with the goal being to survive and assume as much comfort as possible— ketamine would be the first treatment I would do. This is under the assumption that I didn’t have an occupation or any other responsibilities as the sleep issues would make that impossible.

I say try it though. It doesn’t hurt. Also, it took about 12 infusions for my sleep to get bad. I noticed way before this point, but never knew it would portend to what came next.