Active B12 Protocol Basics

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
Thank you for taking a look, and explaining.

Right now, I'm actually wondering about sodium. My diet isn't really normal. I eat almost totally whole foods. So the only sodium I get is from putting salt on my food, which I do.

But all of this potassium, I mean how does that affect sodium? I drank potassium throughout the night (just plain powder in water). Then I drank another 450 mg in water first thing in the morning. I guess it could have been in my mind but I started having chest pain (I have no heart conditions of which I'm aware and I've had many tests). So I stopped.

About an hour and a half later, I was feeling more and more tired. My BP was very low and my heart rate was high. I've been associating this with low potassium bc those are listed on the Cleveland Clinic website as symptoms of severe low potassium. (Sometimes my HR is high but more often very low, usually with extreme tiredness, and sometimes muscle twitching, when I decide to take potassium.)

This has really confused me bc normally I would think potassium would lower your BP.

Anyway, today I was even more suspicious bc I had just taken a large dose of potassium 1.5 hrs earlier, and had very little relative sodium since dinner last night. And that B12 consultant lady actually suggested sodium (I emailed her to ask if she had seen this before.) I did the elliptical machine yesterday so would have lost electrolytes that I may not have replaced, including sodium. I had real issues last night with what I thought was low potassium (BP started low then went high.)

I had no problems balancing electrolytes naturally before the B12 shots. I'm totally perplexed.

I have been assuming this is all potassium bc that's a known risk of the shots. But both low potassium and low sodium apparently can cause low BP and high HR.

I just don't know how we can possibly know without constant monitoring and testing. Or i guess the fall back would be to add sodium to every potassium drink. But then if only one or the other were out of balance, I don't see how that would work, either.

@Freddd do you have any ideas based on the cases you've seen?


Hi Tina.

I’m glad you are getting more comfortable with potassium. I am currently using about 2,500 mg over the day. I have had a few things improve. I am taking larger doses of folate and seem to be tolerating it better. Yesterday I took 20 mg and today I am at 27 mg and plan to take one more dose at bedtime. Seems to help the IBS although it is has not taken it away entirely. What I wonder about now is whether the potassium is causing some of the IBS.

The thing that I have noticed about potassium is that while there are some common symptoms we each have our own symptomology. Some of it is on Freddd’s list and some is not. I tend to start feeling really crappy and then dizzy. If I don’t take potassium it gets worse pretty quickly so i have now been drinking potassium regularly throughout the day—-I can manage it better that way.

I also have the high heart rate. I had it last time too. I can’t recall how long it took for that to go away. I am one who always wants to know cause and affect. I don’t recall Freddd posting about why a B12/ Folate deficiency causes a high heart rate, I just know that it does until it is corrected. Perhaps it is the combination of low potassium with the deficiency.

The last two days have been better, so I’m glad for that.

How man injections have you had now and how are you doing today? I’m glad Freddd is engaging with you, he can be pretty insightful.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
It's just impossible to know how much you really need. I've only been taking it when I feel like I need it. Other than yesterday -- I took it before needing it, on the advice of someone else in this forum, and based on what worked the day before. I can't continue that bc I included a high potassium electrolyte drink, which made my throat hurt all day.

Today I had the same amount in the morning (except this time straight potassium), and had chest pains before finishing the same 500 mgs. So I hadn't had much sodium and worked out yesterday (sweat). I don't eat much sodium in general.

So today I thought maybe I need sodium. I thought it would be dangerous to keep drinking potassium with chest pains.

After drinking sodium, my heart rate and BP shot up 20 points. And I almost fainted, felt extremely unwell, actually felt a little like the live was fading g from me (possibly just like I was going to faint), easily the worst I've felt throughout this entire ordeal. I was confused when my friend called. I didn't know what I needed. So I again drank the electrolyte drink. And within 30 min my BP and me were both back to normal.

I keep reading the low potassium symptoms. I've probably read them hundreds of times. But many of them theoretically could be caused by other things. Like low sodium, just as one example.

And even if you just assume it's low potassium, bc that's what is likely, there is no way to know how much is enough versus too much. As you have said, the needs change.

This is a very dangerous game and I'm really not sure I'm going to survive this. I hope that I get lucky. This should be monitored by blood work every few hours and cardiac monitoring, constantly.

Anyway, can you please tell me: how long do the highest potassium needs last? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? Two months? Or much longer?

And do you believe that folonic acid can actually impair healing? My potassium still drops when I take it (and it's way easier to handle). So doesn't that mean I must still be healing?


Freddd will likely jump in here Tina. But I too have been reading lots of posts because they can give me some guidance and importantly reassurance. What I found (and read many times on this forum) that trying to address potassium when refeeding is happening is challenging at best. I found an old post of Freddd‘s where he said he drank potassium through out the day and that kept a base for him and then he added more as needed. That is what I am doing too and it is working better.

As to your question about potassium. I found several posts where people‘s needs stabilize and they were able to reduce but not do away with entirely. This deficiency and underlying cause which will require you to refeed may require that you will always have to have some additional potassium added to your diet. You likely won’t know how much until you are much further along in the process. The potassium is going to be needed as long as it is needed in relationship to correcting the deficiency and associated damage a deficiency causes.

You are right, this is a dangerous game. But as I have considered the alternative and having dealt with this one time before, I can you tell you it is just as dangerous not to address it. You really do feel like you are not going to survive it—-I did last time and I still feel that even if my logical brain tells me otherwise.

Are you having nerve pain, tingling, odd sensations? If you are that is a good sign because it means that the nerves are waking up. I could however do without the feeling crappy part—-that is the worse.
 

TinaT

Senior Member
Messages
291
Are you having nerve pain, tingling, odd sensations? If you are that is a good sign because it means that the nerves are waking up. I could however do without the feeling crappy part—-that is the worse.

Hi Idie. I really, greatly appreciate your posts. I look forward to them so much and I'm crying now just reading them.

I don't know whether I'm different, but I think I'm also having a low sodium problem, bc I'm drinking so much potassium, which means lots of fluid is going through, which would wash out sodium.

Tonight I thought I needed more potassium. But I had a bad headache (still do). I looked it up and think that's low sodium. If the Cleveland clinic website is accurate, that can be brain swelling, which, "if left untreated," will kill you. Like do I need to go to the ER again now??? I have no idea. I took some salt on my hands, twice, and the headache is still there. It's pretty bad.

I just have no idea. Absolutely no idea. So drink more potassium again later? I mean the whole thing is just really terrible right now. I'm truly afraid that I will not make it through the night. And this is only the second night after my last shot! I can't even imagine tomorrow night

I personally think it's a mistake to take so much B12 that we need any potassium, much less a lot. I just don't think we can be sure we aren't causing other problems. And at the same time, I'm getting that familiar *very tired* feeling from needing potassium, yet right now I'm afraid to drink more water + potassium. I really do not know what to do. I just told my husband that I really believe this could kill me, from the absolute bottom of my heart.

I have received four 1 ml shots of methyl, one 500 mg (half) methyl shot -- that was the one 3 days ago. I tried to take less to avoid this. 4 days before that shot -- I tried hydroxy but that didn't help the reflux nearly as much as the methyl. I am really, really, deeply regretting that I gave myself the latest injection so soon after the last one. I will not make that mistake again. This is way way too much for my body. And I don't think I'm just being melodramatic or anything. My head feels really bad and I don't know the cause. I'm really just trying to decide, right now, whether to drive myself to the ER, or stay home and hope for the best.

Also the methylfolate continues to give me a terrible sore throat and reflux. I feel much better when I take folonic acid, in that sense. But I'm concerned bc Fredd said in some post that basically folonic acid can prevent healing (I think he said the same thing about hydroxy).

I'm glad to hear that you are doing better though! I have been worried about you bc that one comment / post from you was really concerning. Btw constipation is a symptom of low potassium (you probably know this). And constipation causes bloating and reflux. Basically the stool needs hydration and good electrolytes including potassium.

Mag Ox can help. Powder in water in the morning (that's if you normally have a BM in the morning, but it feels incomplete; if you have no morning BM, then Mag Ox at night). However, Mag Ox is totally ineffective without enough potassium. I'm not sure how the folate might affect IBS. But that's interesting that you think it helps.

I'm really frustrated bc my main reason for taking B12 in the beginning was reflux. And low potassium, of course, causes both constipation and reflux. And I'm always afraid to take enough to fix that problem. So I'm living in misery a good bit of the time (and 100% if I take methylfolate -- I can get through part of the day without reflux if I take folonic acid).

I've been wondering whether you live nearby. I would love to take you to lunch or dinner. I'm in central Florida.

My head is still absolutely killing me. I just ate more straight salt. I'm extremely concerned right now.
 
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TinaT

Senior Member
Messages
291
@Idie oh I forgot to mention. I do get the tingly feelings. Probably more when I'm taking methylfolate but I had some today, with folonic acid. However, I'm sure you know that muscle twitching is a symptom of low potassium. So it gets confusing but I think there is a subtle difference. I get both.

Right now, I've decided so far too stay home, and drink a small glass of water with potassium heavy trace minerals (includes sodium). My BP is high again. My head is still really hurting. I hope not going to the hospital isn't a huge mistake.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
@Idie oh I forgot to mention. I do get the tingly feelings. Probably more when I'm taking methylfolate but I had some today, with folonic acid. However, I'm sure you know that muscle twitching is a symptom of low potassium. So it gets confusing but I think there is a subtle difference. I get both.

Right now, I've decided so far too stay home, and drink a small glass of water with potassium heavy trace minerals (includes sodium). My BP is high again. My head is still really hurting. I hope not going to the hospital isn't a huge mistake.


Hey Tina

I was just at my doctor and we talked about all the potassium and peeing all the time. I was worried about salt and a whole host of things. She said, my blood panel isn’t picking up anything. I am having a blood draw tomorrow to check potassium again. We agreed that we will check my potassium every week to see how I am tolerating the large doses of potassium. So far they have been good, I will let you how the next one turns out. I am drinking a lot more potassium than you and my levels are good. I hope that gives you some reassurance.
It is good you are getting the tingling….i have lots of that right now.
For what it is worth, I recall from the first time going through this, that no one could tell me how long it was going to go on. When you read things on these threads like a year or two years, it can be devastating to hear that. I have to remember and I experienced it, that doesn’t necessarily mean a year or two until you are better. There will be improvements and recognition (which will build confidence) that you are getting better and headed in the right direction. I never thought I was getting better——my husband had to point it out to me, eventually I started feeling better and which gave me confidence in the direction i was going and motivation to keep moving forward.
I’m smiling as I write this because I’m in the middle of hell right now too….:). Hang in there and persevere.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
It's just impossible to know how much you really need. I've only been taking it when I feel like I need it. Other than yesterday -- I took it before needing it, on the advice of someone else in this forum, and based on what worked the day before. I can't continue that bc I included a high potassium electrolyte drink, which made my throat hurt all day.

Today I had the same amount in the morning (except this time straight potassium), and had chest pains before finishing the same 500 mgs. So I hadn't had much sodium and worked out yesterday (sweat). I don't eat much sodium in general.

So today I thought maybe I need sodium. I thought it would be dangerous to keep drinking potassium with chest pains.

After drinking sodium, my heart rate and BP shot up 20 points. And I almost fainted, felt extremely unwell, actually felt a little like the live was fading g from me (possibly just like I was going to faint), easily the worst I've felt throughout this entire ordeal. I was confused when my friend called. I didn't know what I needed. So I again drank the electrolyte drink. And within 30 min my BP and me were both back to normal.

I keep reading the low potassium symptoms. I've probably read them hundreds of times. But many of them theoretically could be caused by other things. Like low sodium, just as one example.

And even if you just assume it's low potassium, bc that's what is likely, there is no way to know how much is enough versus too much. As you have said, the needs change.

This is a very dangerous game and I'm really not sure I'm going to survive this. I hope that I get lucky. This should be monitored by blood work every few hours and cardiac monitoring, constantly.

Anyway, can you please tell me: how long do the highest potassium needs last? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? Two months? Or much longer?

And do you believe that folinic acid can actually impair healing? My potassium still drops when I take it (and it's way easier to handle). So doesn't that mean I must still be healing?

In this link is you will find refeeding symptoms for a variety of items. I find it reliable for me almost all the time. 50% of people can't use folic acid or use it well. A non researched guess on folinic acid which also did not work for me and many others who can't use folic acid. Some people can convert from very small amounts to "enough".

I found finding 3 of the symptoms would let me find the right one. The problem is that non-converted inactive folates can be delivered instead of the methylfolate (converted to, in theory) is blocked out by the inactive unconverted nonactive folates.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
In this link is you will find refeeding symptoms for a variety of items. I find it reliable for me almost all the time. 50% of people can't use folic acid or use it well. A non researched guess on folinic acid which also did not work for me and many others who can't use folic acid. Some people can convert from very small amounts to "enough".

I found finding 3 of the symptoms would let me find the right one. The problem is that non-converted inactive folates can be delivered instead of the methylfolate (converted to, in theory) is blocked out by the inactive unconverted nonactive folates.

After relieving the signal symptoms of potassium it often will switch back very quickly to needed an increment of methylfolate and sometimes that one has to go to another type of methylfolate; Quatrefolic; Then in 3 days it might again switch to potassium. If you go by symptoms you can get it right almost all the way. Also if the response doesn't occur within a few hours, many of the listed symptoms are quick responding ones. Learn the feedback of the nutrients which will tell you to the next.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
After relieving the signal symptoms of potassium it often will switch back very quickly to needed an increment of methylfolate and sometimes that one has to go to another type of methylfolate; Quatrefolic; Then in 3 days it might again switch to potassium. If you go by symptoms you can get it right almost all the way. Also if the response doesn't occur within a few hours, many of the listed symptoms are quick responding ones. Learn the feedback of the nutrients which will tell you to the next.

Hello Freddd,

Thank you for responding. I’m having a bit of a problem with “following the symptoms”. I don’t have much in the way of obvious folate deficiency symptoms. I do understand that folate works in all cells. So, I have a dry spot on my lip that I have had for years and that literally peels every day. It is not in the corner of my lips but close. I have been on higher dose folate and higher dose B12 for a couple of weeks and if that were angular chelitis, one would think I would see something of a change. Nothing—same as always, no improvement, nor worsening just always there. I had one very tiny canker sore a couple of days ago—-it’s gone now. The only other thing that I have now is a constant gurgling in my stomach. I did not have that until the last 8 days and I’m not sure if that is from drinking potassium or if it is new IBS that has emerged. I am trying to “listen” to my symptoms but they are awfully subtle, not screaming at me.

As to nerves that is a different story——now there is much more tingling, zapping, and numbness and my brain actually feels weird so I am assuming I’m getting something into the brain. Vision has been off and on blurry for the last year….not much improvement there…may be too early.

Finally, did you have symptoms of Vagus Nerve demyelination? If yes, could you describe that? I see too many places where some Physicians or Researchers say that it would be rare to have the Vagus nerves affected——I’m not buying it. Can you educate me?

Thank much!
 

TinaT

Senior Member
Messages
291
We agreed that we will check my potassium every week to see how I am tolerating the large doses of potassium. So far they have been good,

Hi Idie. This actually relates to one of my many concerns. My doc has given me a standing order to check potassium twice a week if I want (so far I have only had it checked twice). Today I had him add sodium (long story). Both have been fine when tested. But my understanding of both potassium and sodium is that they can change literally in minutes, going high or low enough to be life-threatening, particularly overnight, long before the lab opens. So it doesn't really give me much comfort that my numbers are in range.

I don't mean to worry you at all. I'm just trying to help us both face reality if that's what it is. I mean I'm not sure but I just don't think lab numbers when I've had plenty of potassium to drink really mean much.

One of the first studies that I read, when I realized that I might be going through a refeeding, was this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440847/

I'm not sure you remember but I believe I'm currently refeeding after over a year of a very restrictive "low acid," plant based diet, while taking high doses of pepsid and Reflux Gourmet.

Anyway, I haven't read that study in a while. But just from memory, they essentially say that doctors rarely recognize this condition (are we surprised at all??), that it's life-threatening, there's no clear protocol, and that the person needs to be hospitalized, with nutritionists included in the care, and with cardiac monitoring. I mean it's complex. And yes we can look at symptom lists (which I do often now). But we can also be wrong. I'll give you an example that I *might* have discovered today; I'm still working out how or whether this might apply to me.

I had an absolutely dreadful night last night (in part or maybe in whole bc I took a stimulating electrolyte drink too late yesterday; lesson learned). I only slept two hours. I can't even remember now all of the details. But last night I developed a SEARING headache. Like really, really bad. I started thinking: I must be low in sodium. My friend (a scientist) mentioned that she thought that was possible bc I was ingesting so much potassium + water. And I don't eat much sodium bc I don't each many processed foods. I do put salt on my food but not a ton. Plus, I exercise and sweat. So this could possibly add up -- basically I thought too little sodium must be causing my headache. I had never seen "headache" in any list for low potassium, so I was really concerned. This headache was SO bad that I really thought I might have brain swelling and need to go *again* to the ER. I actually got out of bed a few times with the intent to go to the ER. But then I decided just to wait a little while. Of course I was slowly drinking salt water throughout this time. I sent an email to my doc, to check sodium and potassium levels. That finally happened this morning, and both were in mid-range.

Thankfully my headache was improving but it still wasn't gone. Through this whole thing, I decided that, regardless of the numbers, I obviously need more sodium when I thought about it (didn't help that I started reading a book about salt -- talking about all of the important health benefits of salt -- and I'm an athlete in Florida with big hopes / dreams / plans of getting back to my normal activity level). So I decided that I would add sodium to my regular water, and any potassium water, too.

Over the course of today, I didn't drink as much potassium in the morning (largely bc I can't tolerate the citric acid in the electrolyte drink that I like best -- so I skipped my morning dose -- plus I was at the hospital getting labs run).

Oh! Also, yesterday morning, since I could no longer take my preferred electrolyte drink (bc of the citric acid burning my throat), I increased my straight potassium (gluconate) + water to 500 mg, which is almost the amount in the electrolyte drink (which has 550). But before I could finish, at about maybe 450 mg, it might have just been a coincidence, but I started having noticeable chest pains. They were not severe. But they were enough to make me STOP. Like, yeah, no thanks. That was a hard lesson bc I couldn't tolerate 500 unless it was in the electrolyte mix, which has about 140 sodium and other minerals.

So anyway back to today. Not much potassium in the morning. Headache getting better. And because I still had a little headache, I decided to drink more salt water (actually Utah Sea Minerals -- 1/4 tsp in distilled water). I had been feeling tired but suddenly, like clouds clearing on a rainy day, everything was perfect. I felt great! No headache, and life was good for a few minutes. I felt like a million bucks.

And I figured I had my answer. It WAS low sodium, after all. I mean screw the tests. I had my proof.

Then about 30 min later, I started feeling that tired feeling that I have been associating with low potassium. I checked my BP and it was going down. So I decided to make my potassium drink, and started sipping. Within a few minutes -- BAM -- headache back in it's full glory. This caused a panic bc last night, this headache was BAD and would not stop, all night, and into the morning. So I immediately stopped drinking the K, and went for some more salt water. That didn't seem to be helping (wasn't hurting, either). So then I poured some plain distilled water, starting drinking, and that finally helped.

(Incidentally, at this moment, I almost CANNOT HEAR what has been absolutely RAGING LOUD tinnitus at times, and never quiet. It's amazing and I'm sure that is healing from B12.)

So the moral of the story for me was confusing. My issue, at least at times, MIGHT be low sodium. I had my first clue when you guys mostly had high BP (which I have also had -- and which I do still think / assume is low potassium). I have also read doctors saying that potassium can cause BP fluctuations, so maybe those have been caused by K. But maybe sometimes my problem has been sodium? Or too much potassium?

I mean it's so hard to tell. I think that's why that study said basically: this is HARD. We need to monitor people, etc.

In that scenario, since we can't be monitored, I really believe that it is just not totally safe to let whatever process run wild, causing a drastic increase in need for potassium. And all of these nutrients are complex and varied. Like what is causing my stomach bloating still?? Why did my reflux improve but now sometimes comes back and is really bad? Is that potassium? Or folate? Or just not enough healing yet from B12? Potassium itself is complex -- and some the high K symptoms could seem like something else. I did a little digging today and found sources saying that high potassium can cause headaches. That was not easy to find so this doesn't seem like maybe a common symptom. But bad headache is classic for hyponatremia. I mean, even I knew that! :) As soon as I developed the headache, I was just sure it was low sodium. But I now think that the potassium was causing the headache. So maybe I had too much? I don't know, but I don't want headaches.

(I'm extremely hopeful now that this means I will be able to resume my active lifestyle soon, just with more sodium; however it still makes no sense to me that suddenly I would need more sodium.)

I don't know what I'm going to do. I just pray that I don't have to continue taking potassium, somehow, someway. And I know that I can't handle the shots probably more than once a week, *maybe* every 5 days if I'm lucky. I just can't continue with higher and higher potassium doses (if that's even what I personally need).

Speaking of potassium, someone on Facebook shared this post, which is kind of interesting. I couldn't make my way through the comments though. There's always just so much with this stuff:

http://howirecovered.wpengine.com/u...5PxovUo0i4Vd0MhWOFLIVr6QB4R-N9UW406Xu6tBYShqg
 

TinaT

Senior Member
Messages
291
did you have symptoms of Vagus Nerve demyelination?

Dr. Jamie Koufman, reflux guru extraordinaire, told me that vagal nerve injury was causing my reflux (and constipation / partial gastroparesis / bloating). I've been working on the assumption that B12 affected my vagal nerve. And there are plenty of online sources saying that B12 (and low iron) can cause those conditions. My reflux has improved but it's not gone. (It seems like, maybe ?, low potassium causes reflux to come back, but I am usually too scared to keep drinking K until the reflux goes away, so in those cases, I stay miserable all night, and reflux goes away again by the next morning.)

I would also be interested in reading anything about B12 and the vagal nerve.
 

TinaT

Senior Member
Messages
291
By the way, if anyone can tell me whether they had abdominal distension with B12 deficiency, and had that go away, I would really appreciate it -- plus how long did that take? I have seen that listed on several websites as a symptom. I'm just pretty disappointed bc that's really something I hate (used to have a flat stomach, plus it is uncomfortable). And that is actually worse now than when I started.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
@Idie oh I forgot to mention. I do get the tingly feelings. Probably more when I'm taking methylfolate but I had some today, with folonic acid. However, I'm sure you know that muscle twitching is a symptom of low potassium. So it gets confusing but I think there is a subtle difference. I get both.

Right now, I've decided so far too stay home, and drink a small glass of water with potassium heavy trace minerals (includes sodium). My BP is high again. My head is still really hurting. I hope not going to the hospital isn't a huge mistake.
Dr. Jamie Koufman, reflux guru extraordinaire, told me that vagal nerve injury was causing my reflux (and constipation / partial gastroparesis / bloating). I've been working on the assumption that B12 affected my vagal nerve. And there are plenty of online sources saying that B12 (and low iron) can cause those conditions. My reflux has improved but it's not gone. (It seems like, maybe ?, low potassium causes reflux to come back, but I am usually too scared to keep drinking K until the reflux goes away, so in those cases, I stay miserable all night, and reflux goes away again by the next morning.)

I would also be interested in reading anything about B12 and the vagal nerve.

Hi Tina. I just googled vagus nerve begin affected by B12 deficiency and a ton of information came up. Dr. Jamie appears to be spot on with what I read. I had such bad reflux (or so I thought) the first I’ve and once I got my B12 levels up…it all went away and never came back, even now. I was just reading about someone on this thread who had the exact same experience. This is why I am a believer in Methylcobalamin—-it seems to give the best shot at repairing previously damaged nerves.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
By the way, if anyone can tell me whether they had abdominal distension with B12 deficiency, and had that go away, I would really appreciate it -- plus how long did that take? I have seen that listed on several websites as a symptom. I'm just pretty disappointed bc that's really something I hate (used to have a flat stomach, plus it is uncomfortable). And that is actually worse now than when I started.

I read last night on one of these threads of someone who had that. She said it went entirely away when she got her folate high enough. There are a number of people including Freddd who found that folate reduced bloating, edema, etc. It is on Freddd’s list of paradoxical folate symptoms.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
Do you have IBS-C, D or the dreaded "both"?
The “D”. Mostly my gut gurgles, and makes snapping sounds pretty much non stop. THAT is new for me. So many weird things crop us when you go through this—-lots of underlying repairing going on I suspect.
 

Idie

Senior Member
Messages
134
After relieving the signal symptoms of potassium it often will switch back very quickly to needed an increment of methylfolate and sometimes that one has to go to another type of methylfolate; Quatrefolic; Then in 3 days it might again switch to potassium. If you go by symptoms you can get it right almost all the way. Also if the response doesn't occur within a few hours, many of the listed symptoms are quick responding ones. Learn the feedback of the nutrients which will tell you to the next.


Hi Fredd——I wanted to provide you with this information as I think it validates what you have been saying re: Lithium. I heeded your advice and had my doctor order a mineral panel. I don’t have all the results back yet but my Lithium came back at 0. I ordered the Lithium a few weeks ago but wanted to get the deadlock going first….which has been difficult with folate and B12. Nonetheless, lithium is a needed thing in hopes of a a good outcome, even if it takes a while to build up. I had taken lithium for a while a few years ago and had no reaction but since adding the folate I have a startup reaction to everything. Can you tell me how long it took for the startup with Lithium to settle. I always like to prepare myself.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Thank you Freddd!! I think you might have forgotten the link, which I would really like to read.

The reference might be to "edema" as the first symptom I have when it is starting. Then fissures in fingers and then IBS. It's 2-3 pound of sudden gain of water, not the 100 pounds of chronic edema that was killing me. I then can stop it in a day or two.
 
Messages
19
SAM-e - 200-400mg/day, makes methylb12 more effective, possibly much more effective, increases energy, improves mood

TMG - enhances SAM-e, methylb12, l-carnitine-fumarate

L-carnitine fumarate, works with adenosylb12, lack can completely prevent effectiveness of adenosylb12, increases energy, aerobic endurance, improves mood

Alpha Lipoic Acid - enhances l-carnitine-fumarate and adenosylb12

D-Ribose - enhances adenosylb12, l-carnitine, alpha lipoic acid, improves exercise recovery and energy

Additional possibly helpful cofactors

Selenium
Lecithin
Chromium GTF
many other supplements

Hi Freddd, I'm just revisiting this protocol and thought of a few questions. With the l-cartinine fumarate recommendation, is acetyl-l-cartinine potentially also effective in this role? And also, do you think there's any risk related to glutathione from taking Selenium as it is a cofactor of glutathione?
Thank you :)
 

TinaT

Senior Member
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The reference might be to "edema" as the first symptom I have when it is starting. Then fissures in fingers and then IBS. It's 2-3 pound of sudden gain of water

For folate?

Then what for potassium?

Also I injected too much K for my tolerance on accident yesterday (didn't realize I was using larger needle). So I had 5 mg.

Last night BP kept going down. Early this morning see attached photo. I started being unsure whether this was K or sodium. So I drank some K, BP seemed to be fluctuating so drank sodium. Has come up to 107 / 62 after breakfast and 500 mg K and one hundred sodium. But still really low and feeling very tired.

But edema was folate?? I thought that might be potassium from constipation.

Gawd help me the next few days if the first night was as bad as last night with my BP as a result of methyl B12 injection.

Low BP is especially confusing bc this link says that severe low potassium can cause low BP, but that seems counter-intuitive:

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...in-your-blood-hypokalemia#symptoms-and-causes

I don't have fissures in fingers but it feels like possibly could have water weight gain

I really am not sure I'm going to make it through this latest way too much injection.
 

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