23andme test results, need guidance

[kjellfh]

Hello.

26 year old male. Problems with insomnia and low testosterone.
Wake up after 2-3 hours sweaty/hot and have big trouble falling to sleep again.
For more information about my background/symptoms or other information please read this post on Anabolicminds or feel absolutely free to ask.

Took a 23andme test to check if I could have problems with methylation or other stuff.

Ran the raw data through the geneticgenie site and it gave me these results:

Methylation Profile:

VDR Bsm rs1544410 CT +/-
VDR Taq rs731236 AG +/-
MAO-A R297R rs6323 TT +/+
ACAT1-02 rs3741049 AG +/-
MTHFR 03 P39P rs2066470 AG +/-
MTHFR A1298C rs1801131 GT +/-
MTRR A66G rs1801394 AG +/-
MTRR K350A rs162036 AG +/-
MTRR A664A rs1802059 AG +/-
CBS C699T rs234706 AG +/-
CBS A360A rs1801181 AA +/+

Detox:

CYP1A2 164A>C rs762551 AC +/-
CYP1B1 L432V rs1056836 CG +/-
CYP1B1 R48G rs10012 CG +/-
CYP2C19*17 rs12248560 CT +/-
GSTP1 I105V rs1695 AG +/-
SOD2 A16V rs4880 AG +/-
NAT2 I114T rs1801280 CT +/-
NAT2 K268R rs1208 GG +/+

I also have uploaded the PDF reports from geneticgenie:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1PWy0jDjqzreHR wTUsxc3BYSjQ&usp=sharing

I am currently taking TMG - 3000 mg, Methylfolate - 1600mcg and Metyl B12 - 1mcg.

All tips/guidance will be greatly appreciated.

 

[ahmo]

Hi @kjellfh Are you my long lost son??...just kidding. We share a lot of the same defects.

I don't think jumping to testosterone is your answer. There are a lot of methylation defects here. In the links below, the first is a short-hand version, the 2nd an in-depth look at your new learning curve. Also, @caledonia has a list of excellent references in her signature line.

What stands out to me is your 2 ++ genes: CBS and MAO. This suggests you're having difficulties w/ sulfur and histamines. You'll need to check diet and envirnoment for these things. Also, if you're eating gluten and dairy, you'll need to see if you feel better w/o. Sorry, that's all I have time for in the moment. Welcome to the club. The good news is you're in the right spot. In 2.5 years, through diet, persistence, supps, and the resources on pr, I've turned my ill health around. You'll need some version of B12/folate protocol, which you've started already. I'm using Freddd's protocol, others do it differently. Also linking an excellent B12 FAQ. cheers.


http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
http://www.holisticheal.com/media/downloads/autism-pathways-to-recovery-book.pdf
http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/

 

[kjellfh]

Hi @kjellfh Are you my long lost son??...just kidding. We share a lot of the same defects.

I don't think jumping to testosterone is your answer. There are a lot of methylation defects here. In the links below, the first is a short-hand version, the 2nd an in-depth look at your new learning curve. Also, @caledonia has a list of excellent references in her signature line.

What stands out to me is your 2 ++ genes: CBS and MAO. This suggests you're having difficulties w/ sulfur and histamines. You'll need to check diet and envirnoment for these things. Also, if you're eating gluten and dairy, you'll need to see if you feel better w/o. Sorry, that's all I have time for in the moment. Welcome to the club. The good news is you're in the right spot. In 2.5 years, through diet, persistence, supps, and the resources on pr, I've turned my ill health around. You'll need some version of B12/folate protocol, which you've started already. I'm using Freddd's protocol, others do it differently. Also linking an excellent B12 FAQ. cheers.


http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm
http://www.holisticheal.com/media/downloads/autism-pathways-to-recovery-book.pdf
http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/

Maybe I am your long lost son, who knows (!?) . Thanks alot for your reply, good to know there are more of us with these defects/mutations. If I can manage this situation any longer I am gonna postpone the testosterone therapy until I have researched and tested some more. Felt better when on TRT earlier but not 100%.

I have been almost completely off wheat/gluten and dairy/casein for over half a year now but dont feel any better.
Recently I am been trying a low histamine diet. Thanks for the links, I will look into them as fast as I can.

 

[caledonia]

Just popping in quickly so you can see my links.

Based on MTHFR A1298C + three MTRRs + GSTP you could be having problems with methylation and low glutathione.

Low methylation will reduce neurotransmitters which could mess up sleep.

You don't have any BHMTs so TMG would not be suggested. It could cause overmethylation which would make you feel overly revved up. Plus that is quite a high dose.

Your methylfolate is way higher than your methylcobalamin which could cause methyl trapping, thus stopping methylation, the opposite of what you want.

Try reading Start Low and Go Slow and Roadblocks to Success Methylation linked in my signature for help with dosing, troubleshooting and how to prevent adverse events.

If your adrenals are shot, you'll be leaking out electrolytes causing twitchy feet waking you up while sleeping.

I don't know much about low T, but I would guess that if you get methylation working right, the T would fix itself.

 

[kjellfh]

Just popping in quickly so you can see my links.

Based on MTHFR A1298C + three MTRRs + GSTP you could be having problems with methylation and low glutathione.

Low methylation will reduce neurotransmitters which could mess up sleep.

You don't have any BHMTs so TMG would not be suggested. It could cause overmethylation which would make you feel overly revved up. Plus that is quite a high dose.

Your methylfolate is way higher than your methylcobalamin which could cause methyl trapping, thus stopping methylation, the opposite of what you want.

Try reading Start Low and Go Slow and Roadblocks to Success Methylation linked in my signature for help with dosing, troubleshooting and how to prevent adverse events.

If your adrenals are shot, you'll be leaking out electrolytes causing twitchy feet waking you up while sleeping.

I don't know much about low T, but I would guess that if you get methylation working right, the T would fix itself.

Thanks for input caledonia, I will quit TMG and change dosing then. I understand that I have alot of reading/learning to do, this is quite complicated. Hope I can find some energy and time to to this real fast. I have not problems with twitchy feet at night, I think maybe the sleep issues are hormonal/histamine related.

I think I am going to take a blood test at a private doctor soon, any opinions on what tests to take other than hormones?

 

[ahmo]

I've also just this week learned about gluten cross-reactive foods. Even more things to eliminate. But it's made a difference for me already...sigh.

[url]http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/03/gluten-cross-reactivity-update-how-your-body-can-still-think-youre-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html

http://www.glutensensitivity.net/index.html

http://aiplifestyle.com/what-is-autoimmune-protocol-diet/

http://blog.primohealthcoach.com/blog/bid/79586/18-Gluten-Cross-Reactive-Foods
[/URL]

 

[caledonia]

Thanks for input caledonia, I will quit TMG and change dosing then. I understand that I have alot of reading/learning to do, this is quite complicated. Hope I can find some energy and time to to this real fast. I have not problems with twitchy feet at night, I think maybe the sleep issues are hormonal/histamine related.

I think I am going to take a blood test at a private doctor soon, any opinions on what tests to take other than hormones?

The Nutreval test is a good comprehensive test to get if you can afford it. Look at the Nutreval Intepretation Guide in my signature to see all what it tests.

 

[kjellfh]

Been some time, almost a year since I started this thread. I still suffer with the same issues. Mainly insomnia, anxiety, low libido, depression/mood swings, brainfog and generally feeling like shit among others.
I have had no success with methylation protocols/supplements. Also tried various diets with no help.

Been on testosterone replacement therapy now for almost around a half year with no big difference. I started this thread over at allthingsmale and have posted most of my blood tests and other information there. As the low testosterone seems just to have been a symptom I am again looking for help here at Phoenixrising.

The only thing that temporarily seems to help me a little these days are antihistamine drugs. Therefore I speculate in that excess histamine is causing some of my problems. Whats weird is that I have little of the "standard" high histamine/allergy symptoms like itching, runny eyes/nose, hives etc. The symptoms I experience that are histamine like are at night - very hot skin/sweating, headache, palpitations, restlessness, cravings and congested nose. After these nights I feel absolutely like garbage and cannot manage to do much other than emptying my fridge and shelves for food.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

[TheChosenOne]

Problems with insomnia and low testosterone.
Wake up after 2-3 hours sweaty/hot and have big trouble falling to sleep again.

Insomnia/night sweats and low testosterone could be related to mercury poisoning. I woudn't be too concerned about testosterone, but it might be an indication that there is something wrong.

VDR Bsm rs1544410 CT +/-
VDR Taq rs731236 AG +/-
MAO-A R297R rs6323 TT +/+
ACAT1-02 rs3741049 AG +/-
MTHFR 03 P39P rs2066470 AG +/-
MTHFR A1298C rs1801131 GT +/-
MTRR A66G rs1801394 AG +/-
MTRR K350A rs162036 AG +/-
MTRR A664A rs1802059 AG +/-
CBS C699T rs234706 AG +/-
CBS A360A rs1801181 AA +/+

You have a lot of MTHFR/MTRR mutations, so you need methylfolate and methylB12. MAO can lead to mood swings/anger since it is responsible for serotonin breakdown.
Keep in mind that a high protein diet can impair methylation, especially if you have CBS mutations. CBS mutations stand for an upregulation, which means that the mutated gene works faster. This leads to much higher production of hydrogen sulfate (which causes brain fog), taurine and ammonia. People with this mutation can't tolerate sulfates very well.
Do you have a SUOX (rs705703) mutation?
People with VDR mutations usually need vitamin D3 supplementation as it is responsible for dopamine buildup.

You don't have COMT mutations, so you shouldn't have serious problems with methyl donors.
Do you have more mood swings when you take methyl supplements?

I am currently taking TMG - 3000 mg, Methylfolate - 1600mcg and Metyl B12 - 1mcg.

You don't need TMG as you don't have BHMT mutations.
Your dosage of methylfolate is way too high. You need much more methylB12.

Start with the lowest dose possible.

Mainly insomnia, anxiety, low libido, depression/mood swings, brainfog and generally feeling like shit among others.

It's odd that you have anxiety while you don't have COMT or AHCY mutations.

The symptoms I experience that are histamine like are at night - very hot skin/sweating, headache, palpitations, restlessness, cravings and congested nose. After these nights I feel absolutely like garbage and cannot manage to do much other than emptying my fridge and shelves for food.

Headaches, hot skin, cravings and (especially) congested nose point in the direction of candida overgrowth. Do you have digestive issues?

 

[kjellfh]

Insomnia/night sweats and low testosterone could be related to mercury poisoning. I woudn't be too concerned about testosterone, but it might be an indication that there is something wrong.

You have a lot of MTHFR/MTRR mutations, so you need methylfolate and methylB12. MAO can lead to mood swings/anger since it is responsible for serotonin breakdown.
Keep in mind that a high protein diet can impair methylation, especially if you have CBS mutations. CBS mutations stand for an upregulation, which means that the mutated gene works faster. This leads to much higher production of hydrogen sulfate (which causes brain fog), taurine and ammonia. People with this mutation can't tolerate sulfates very well.
Do you have a SUOX (rs705703) mutation?
People with VDR mutations usually need vitamin D3 supplementation as it is responsible for dopamine buildup.

You don't have COMT mutations, so you shouldn't have serious problems with methyl donors.
Do you have more mood swings when you take methyl supplements?


You don't need TMG as you don't have BHMT mutations.
Your dosage of methylfolate is way too high. You need much more methylB12.

Start with the lowest dose possible.

Thank you for input TheChosenOne.

The dosing that was posted in my first post was wrong. I quit TMG and changed dosing after caledonia`s post.

I have lately been lowering protein a little, now I eat around 10-15% so I will continue with this to see if it can help.
I didn't notice any differences at all when on B12 and methylfolate. When I took TMG I sometimes got energized and/or anxious. I tried different protocols and a lot of different supplement brands.

I have supplemented with vtamin D in the past but gained no benefit. I am getting some UV rays regularly and eat fish. Last vitamin D blood test was also ok.

When it comes to the SUOX rs705703 gene, look at this(I dont know howto interpret this):

 

[Gondwanaland]

Hi @kjellfh I have been chasing ways on how to up my testosterone as well. Do you know Ray Peat? I think he might be onto something.

Be sure to have all the items of the Testosterone Wheel in place

and also
http://suppversity.blogspot.com.br/2010/07/chelated-copper-forgotten-lutenizing.html

I am learning that having only part of the ingredients will only increase the deficiency of the others.

My S-DHEA levels are normal, but T is low. I am missing the vitamin K to convert it. I will have to carefully balance it with vitamin E because I have a DVT in my past.

 

[kjellfh]

Hi @kjellfh I have been chasing ways on how to up my testosterone as well. Do you know Ray Peat? I think he might be onto something.

Be sure to have all the items of the Testosterone Wheel in place

and also
http://suppversity.blogspot.com.br/2010/07/chelated-copper-forgotten-lutenizing.html

I am learning that having only part of the ingredients will only increase the deficiency of the others.

My S-DHEA levels are normal, but T is low. I am missing the vitamin K to convert it. I will have to carefully balance it with vitamin E because I have a DVT in my past.

Yes, there are functions for all nutrients whether there is direct or indirect effects.
If we don't have any illnesses/defects I think we get all we need from a healthy diet.
As you say, supplementing often cause more imbalances.
Leafy and vegetables in general are rich in vitamin K.

I`m still on TRT so I do not producing any lutenizing hormone at the moment. I will stay on TRT until all other things are ok.

Some tips regarding low t:
Get enough fatty acids.
Both low and high carb diets can be bad.
Very high fiber is also bad.
Healthy levels of SHBG is crucial.
Stay away from phyto and xeno-estrogens.
Eat cruciferous vegetables(for healthy estrogen metabolism).
Loose body fat(less aromatase activity).
Try cold showers and baths (5-7 minutes).
Get enough quality sleep.
Lower stress.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Leafy and vegetables in general are rich in vitamin K.

One needs a healthy gut flora in order to convert K1 from vegetables into K2.

 

[kjellfh]

One needs a healthy gut flora in order to convert K1 from vegetables into K2.

Nice to know . I think a healthy gut flora is crucial for good health, there have been some interesting research on gut flora/bacteria and diseases the last decades. A "sterile" environment is not good for us, and the bad bacteria in such environment have no enemies.

 

[Gondwanaland]

We have some interesting threads here going on about this
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/clostridium-butyricum-a-game-changer.37324/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ge-is-it-the-key-weve-been-looking-for.26976/

 

[kjellfh]

We have some interesting threads here going on about this
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/clostridium-butyricum-a-game-changer.37324/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ge-is-it-the-key-weve-been-looking-for.26976/

Nice, I will check them out. Thanks!

 

[TheChosenOne]

When it comes to the SUOX rs705703 gene, look at this(I dont know howto interpret this):
View attachment 11254

SUOX helps to detoxify sulfides. There is no ++ status for SUOX because this kind of mutation can be very serious. This means that a heterozygous mutation really needs support. SUOX sits downstream from CBS and detoxifies sulfite to sulfate. Sulfites can decrease ATP, glutathione, lead to asthma and cause low blood sugar which can be part of your cravings. SUOX require molybdenum and B12 to work.

I forgot to mention that MTHFR A1298C is required to regenerate BH4, which can be depleted because of ammonia toxicity (CBS). BH4 is required to generate catecholamines (dopamine, epinepherine and norepinepherine).
This may be too far fetched and theoretical, but it may be usefull to know this.

Just one more question. Do your cravings end if you eat pure sugar?

 

[kjellfh]

SUOX helps to detoxify sulfides. There is no ++ status for SUOX because this kind of mutation can be very serious. This means that a heterozygous mutation really needs support. SUOX sits downstream from CBS and detoxifies sulfite to sulfate. Sulfites can decrease ATP, glutathione, lead to asthma and cause low blood sugar which can be part of your cravings. SUOX require molybdenum and B12 to work.

I forgot to mention that MTHFR A1298C is required to regenerate BH4, which can be depleted because of ammonia toxicity (CBS). BH4 is required to generate catecholamines (dopamine, epinepherine and norepinepherine).
This may be too far fetched and theoretical, but it may be usefull to know this.

Just one more question. Do your cravings end if you eat pure sugar?

You sure know alot about this subject. Thank you for sharing your information.

My cravings is for all kinds of foods, booth sweet and salt and does not seem to go away after eating sugary foods(I have not tried pure refined sugar).

I have measured my blood sugar numerous times and I have never measured abnormally low but often pretty high(after meals). Also measured high blood sugar but still had bad cravings. Fasting blood sugar is always fine though.

At worst, the only things that stop the binge is a completely full stomach. This tends to be after the nIghts with the worst sleep.

Another thing that I think I should add is that when I have tested blood Homocysteine level, this have been high (but in range).

Also, I cannot tolerate stimulants like caffeine, teobromine and nicotine anymore. Not even a half cup of coffee. Gives me bad headache, palpitations and anxiety.

 

[silverseas2014]

Hello @kjellfh---regarding your low testosterone and insomnia.... just a guess on my part, but perhaps you have too much estrogen? In my readings, some men (largely bodybuilders) use Calcium D-Glucarate to reduce their estrogen levels (for them it is about leaning out).... for myself, I have found CDG (and DIM-Plus) excellent for reducing estrogen and improving sleep.

In good health,
silverseas2014

 

[kjellfh]

Hello @kjellfh---regarding your low testosterone and insomnia.... just a guess on my part, but perhaps you have too much estrogen? In my readings, some men (largely bodybuilders) use Calcium D-Glucarate to reduce their estrogen levels (for them it is about leaning out).... for myself, I have found CDG (and DIM-Plus) excellent for reducing estrogen and improving sleep.

In good health,
silverseas2014

Yes, I am absolutely with you on this, also I think estrogen and histamine are working together somehow.

My T levels are fine now (in upper range) and I have tried both CDG and numerous DIMs in the past. Way back I have even tried arimidex without help. Actually I gonna give low dose DIM a last try with Enzymatic Therapy Indolplex which should be one of the best DIMs out there.