Sanum Therapy : Homeopathy to reduce Candida and Fungi

[JCamp]

@JCamp what kind of antifungal regimes do you use?

@jepps - I am on Dr Brewer's nasal protocol. I took the Real Time Labs urine test for mycotoxins last summer and was highly positive. The protocol can take a very long time to have noticeable effects, but I have had some die off symptoms. Dr Brewers theory is that the mold is primarily colonized in the sinuses, even if you don't have prior sinus symptoms. There's a long thread on this forum about the protocol:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/detection-of-mycotoxins-in-patients-with-cfs.22743/

@melamine - please let us know if you receive additional info about sanum in the US.

 

[melamine]

@JCamp - This link might be helpful - http://www.drz.org/ASP/pleo/index.html I just found it awhile ago and haven't had a chance to check it out myself yet.

 

[jepps]

@jepps - I am on Dr Brewer's nasal protocol. I took the Real Time Labs urine test for mycotoxins last summer and was highly positive. The protocol can take a very long time to have noticeable effects, but I have had some die off symptoms. Dr Brewers theory is that the mold is primarily colonized in the sinuses, even if you don't have prior sinus symptoms. There's a long thread on this forum about the protocol:

.

@JCamp, do you take nystatin? Then I would only take Sanum, when nystatin is stopped. I know the @slayadragons mycotoxin thread, it is very interesting. But nystatin is another kind of approach, both together does not fit well.
Slayadragon had the hypothesis, that the gall bladder is a reservoir for candida and fungi, there is a study, that confirms this theory http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/pancreas-gallbladder-and-cfs.611/page-2#post-527492.

As sanum works in isopathic and also homoepathic, it works systemically, therefore also in gallbladder and more important, in the liver.

 

[JCamp]

@JCamp, do you take nystatin? Then I would only take Sanum, when nystatin is stopped. I know the @slayadragons mycotoxin thread, it is very interesting. But nystatin is another kind of approach, both together does not fit well.
Slayadragon had the hypothesis, that the gall bladder is a reservoir for candida and fungi, there is a study, that confirms this theory http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/pancreas-gallbladder-and-cfs.611/page-2#post-527492.

As sanum works in isopathic and also homoepathic, it works systemically, therefore also in gallbladder and more important, in the liver.

I take nystatin -- but not internally. Only topically in the sinuses. I think this would make it ok to take with sanum since the intestinal tract, gallbladder, and liver aren't being directly affected? I'm not sure though.

Either way, it does not matter since the sanum is not available.

 

[boohealth]

Aside from odd colored stools and dieoff, what improvements have folks seen? Many thanks.

 

[jepps]

Aside from odd colored stools and dieoff, what improvements have folks seen? Many thanks.

@boohealth It is much to early to expect improvements, because building up the gut is a long term therapy. The fully improvements are seen, when fungi is not any longer excreted, this can last years. As long as we have fungi, and as long as we detoxify fungi, our liver is burden with mycotoxins, this will impact energy, mood and digestion.

I do not only treat with Sanum, but with RS, prebiotics and probiotics, a good diet, and with methylation.

The goal is not, to attack fungi, but to achieve the homeostasis, where our microbiom, well feeded and nourished by us, therefore protects us against pathogenic environmental factors. To get in this homeostasis, it takes years with chronic infections. This rechere of Richard Nikoley describes this: http://freetheanimal.com/2015/01/hormesis-afraid-unrefined.html, homeostasis also was the primar goal of Dr. Enderlein (Sanum researcher).

Nevertheless, I have improvements on this long way: I have a lot more energy, better mood, I do not have brain symptoms, I increase my daily distance. This means not, that symptoms cannot happen again, as processes are going on. But something good happens, and that is enough.

And the target is not, to have less symptoms here and there, but to reach the homeostasis. Symptoms can be better and then worsier, but homeostasis means immunity, that protects us from disease.

 

[Asklipia]

Aside from odd colored stools and dieoff, what improvements have folks seen? Many thanks.

Thicker hair it seems! Many positive and dramatic changes in my life, showing that we indeed project our life from our thoughts. The mind is clearer and has more strength to govern my life. Meaning the dreaded fungi do not make me do what they want (rot in helpless brain fog and die).
I realize that this may sound like weird talk, but some people will understand.
This morning both my arms were numb, but I had fantastic dreams all night long (rare for me). Something is leaving the body and it burns on the way. Tuning the instruments is very easy, meaning the ears hear well AND the brain is sharp.
Good luck to all!

 

[boohealth]

Thanks @jepps but I only asked for improvements--not a framework of interpretation.

 

[jepps]

http://www.townsendletter.com/June2012/candida0612.html

In 1989, Jessup presented her experience treating 1100 such patients at the University of California San Francisco.34 Prominent symptoms included fatigue, myalgia, headache, depression, dizziness, arthralgias, night sweats, morning stiffness, and postexercise malaise. The neurological examination was abnormal in 30% of patients. Approximately 80% of patients had repeated antibiotic courses for a variety of indications. Of the 1100 patients, 685 were on disability. Jessup prescribed ketaconazole 200 mg a day along with a diet free of alcohol, added sugar, fruit, and fruit juice. The average length of treatment was 5 months (range: 3–12 months). In follow-up, 84% of patients recovered and only 12 of 685 patients remained on disability. Jessup concluded that Candida infection with production of an unknown systemic toxin was the cause of disease. Unfortunately, the study was retrospective and never published, and the interventions were unblinded and uncontrolled.

A consistent observation by both patients and practitioners is that while select individuals with polysomatic symptoms may respond to diet and antifungal interventions, the response is usually limited in time and relapse is the rule.

With fully treating fungi, and with RS, prebiotics, probiotics and diet we should be able to prevent future relapses.

 

[Sidereal]

Of the 1100 patients, 685 were on disability. Jessup prescribed ketaconazole 200 mg a day along with a diet free of alcohol, added sugar, fruit, and fruit juice. The average length of treatment was 5 months (range: 3–12 months). In follow-up, 84% of patients recovered and only 12 of 685 patients remained on disability.

If I had a dime for every time an ME/CFS doctor claimed 84% recovery rates...

 

[boohealth]

@jepps, so you are saying you are a doctor? Are you Jessup?
An unblinded, non randomized "study" in Townsend (where doctors market their practices w articles claiming success w their methods) in 1989 at the height of the candida craze) is not what I asked for. I didn't ask for interpretive frameworks, promises, or explanations for why improvement takes years.

I asked for an objective list from anybody of their improvements. Shorn of belief, excuse, or promotion. One person answered with some improvements.

http://www.townsendletter.com/June2012/candida0612.html





With fully treating fungi, and with RS, prebiotics, probiotics and diet we should be able to prevent future relapses.

je

 

[boohealth]

Frankly, I was more interested in Sanum at the start of this thread than by the end when it unwravelled more and more into vague philosophies and promises and excuses.

How is it that Sanum takes years but a fecal transplant can work overnight? One fecal transplant can cure deadly c. Difficile. That is a rhetorical question. Anyway we are all ecosystems of microbes. There is not just one bad bug called candida with one bad toxin and that is the cause of illness. Its rarely so simple. Also as far as I know, gut bugs don't mate and dissolve each other. They compete for space, they have signalling mechanisms to keep each other in check and they can exchange genes. But they don't mate. If Sanum works its by presenting different signaling.

 

[jepps]

If I had a dime for every time an ME/CFS doctor claimed 84% recovery rates...

This is a link of the author of this study of Dr. Jessup:
http://www.cfstreatmentguide.com/blog/dr-carol-jessop

Unable to locate a viral cause, she suspected that candidiasis played a major role in the development of CFS. Dr. Jessop treated her patients with a course of ketoconazole combined with an anti-candida therapy program for 3-12 months. The majority of these patients experienced a significant reduction of symptoms.

@boohealth
That Sanum works, is for me no thought, as I excrete mold according to stool-test, that I do every 6 weeks. Mold since sanum, candida since last summer according to RS&Co.
But there is not only Sanum as treatment for fungi, it´s a possibility, and for me the way to treat candida.
My candida was never treated before, no one doctor had a look at it. And the more I read, the more it seems to be an important puzzle of my chronic disease for me.

 

[boohealth]

@jepps, RS&Co--is what? resistant starches?
How many stool tests did you have before you started your program?
How much are you excreting? Is it dead? What species of "mold" and what species of candida since you are differentiating them. Can you post a few jpgs of reports?Maybe you have done so elsewhere, if so a link would be great.

I find Sanum interesting, but not philosophies that are unproven (it'll take years...why is that?) One fecal transplant might restore your ecosystem. Also, that bugs mate and the primitive nonpathogenic forms dissolve the more pathogenic. Why not the opposite? It's a question of ecosystem, and signalling.


@boohealth
That Sanum works, is for me no thought, as I excrete mold according to stool-test, that I do every 6 weeks. Mold since sanum, candida since last summer according to RS&Co.
B
QUOTE]

 

[jepps]

@jepps, RS&Co--is what? resistant starches?
How many stool tests did you have before you started your program?
How much are you excreting? Is it dead? What species of "mold" and what species of candida since you are differentiating them. Can you post a few jpgs of reports?Maybe you have done so elsewhere, if so a link would be great.

I find Sanum interesting, but not philosophies that are unproven (it'll take years...why is that?) One fecal transplant might restore your ecosystem. Also, that bugs mate and the primitive nonpathogenic forms dissolve the more pathogenic. Why not the opposite? It's a question of ecosystem, and signalling.

My doctor does stool tests with me since, years, it never showed candida. After taking RS (potato starch) and fibres the test showed candida excretion (candida species, highest level 8x10´4, no albicans). Each following test shows this high level of excreting candida (I can post the test of June 2014 = no RS, and the test of August = after RS, if it is interesting).

This is a Sanum protocol for autism (sorry, German). Regarding the medicaments for Sanum they write:

This phase can last years.

As CFS is so similar to autism, and I by myself am shocked about the never ending excreting of candida, I modulate my mind to several years for treating fungi.

Of course you are right, there is more in the gut but candida, but as the overgrowth hyphen form of candida (in my stool were hyphen up to 15 cm) form is such a big mass, when candida is treated, there is much place for good bacterias.

A German researcher, Dr. Bach, Karlsruhe, treated patients with Fluconazol. Before he treated them, he made the candida visible with a special procedure. Candida was so much and so deep in the tissue, that after 4 months of treatment more than half of the candida yet was in the mucosa. With my mass of candida, I cannot imagine, that a few faecal transplants solve the mass of candida hyphes on the intestinal mucosa.

 

[melamine]

People are entitled to their beliefs in certain methods for obtaining the best knowledge and treatments, so I wouldn't question your skepticism of Sanum, @boohealth, only your comparisons and seeming faith in scientism, which has a preference for methods that create statistical homogeneity. I could be wrong, but anyone looking for methods of scientific "proof" in Sanum are going to be disappointed as far as I can see, not because it is sham, but because it appears to not seek to be supported by the kind of proof of utility designated by the scientific method. I think that is what you are asking for.

One fecal transplant can cure deadly c. Difficile.

Fecal transplants have been proven so far to not be an instant cure for everyone, in addition to being almost entirely unavailable to those not being treated for acute C. diff. disease, which is the population on this PR forum. To compare results of Sanum to a medical procedure for an acute condition is apples and oranges.

Also as far as I know, gut bugs don't mate and dissolve each other.

But gut bugs do produce antimicrobial substances, in addition to displacing one another.

 

[boohealth]

First of all, @melamine, I am not *for * "scientism" or *against* homeopathy or nosodes. What I am *against* are stories that may or may not match circumstances.Lots of story around--what? What objective findings?I simply asked who had improved--what had improved. Not hard to answer.

People are entitled to their beliefs in certain methods for obtaining the best knowledge and treatments, so I wouldn't question your skepticism of Sanum, @boohealth, only your comparisons and seeming faith in scientism, which has a preference for methods that create statistical homogeneity.

Re: fecal transplants, I said they *can* cure c difficile in one day. Usually they do, not always. And for more entrenched conditions, repeated treatments are sometimes needed--but people can easily point to immediate improvements. As to *acute* c difficile, nobody in an acute phase turns to fecal transplant. They turn to fecal transplant once it is chronic, relapsing, and unresponsive to antibiotics.

 

[boohealth]

@jepps, how do you know what you saw in your stool was a 15 cm candida with hyphae? Did you have it anlayzed by a microbiologist?

Re: excreting candida, maybe the starches are stimulating it or other organisms that then turn your stool grey? I guess you are thinking that you don't have SIBO (colon bacteria in the small intestine, fermenting foods including RS), and that you have good bacteria in your colon that are stimulated by RS, and the only baddie in your colon is candida(or related fungus)? And apparently the candida are letting go of the intestinal wall, where their hyphae are embedded, and coming out in the stool (I guess dead?) because the good colonic bacteria are being stimulated?

I dunno....

 

[melamine]

What objective findings?

@boohealth - I am confused now. Do you want anecdotal stories or "objective findings"?

I simply asked who had improved--what had improved. Not hard to answer.

This is the kind of thing I would also like to know, and is the kind of thing I would search for rather than ask someone else to provide, without knowing what specifics of reliability, detail, etc. you're looking for. I have followed the thread here and read elsewhere and will continue to read as long as it interests me, and if who has improved is not hard to answer, I'm sure I'll find that.

 

[boohealth]

One of my problems with Sanum therapy, whenever I look into it, is all the gobbleygook around it. This whole arcane philosophy.

It might have some validity, however.
I myself am not interested in resistant starches. I think a nutrient dense diet, as close to natural as possible, is probably good.