Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by brenda, Mar 17, 2012.
I think it is in this thread that folks report that Molybdenum and Iodine are needed for B2 to work.
Oh. Cheers. Thats quite the thread. Translator to isle 3 please!!
I wonder if taking lithium is counter productive if your trying to increase B2? If lithium encourages folate/b12 into the cell, that could draw on B2 resources?
If you've got the $$ get tested for B2 deficiency (organic acids test).. then at least you know. Although if you get such a strong reaction you probably have it. My symptoms are very different but I found R5P easier to tolerate then regular B2.
I'm noticing this as well, if I don't take some P5P for a few days things go down hill, the B1 (allithamine/benfotiamine) seem to help but not everyday.
Something my doctor said recently - that the glutaric (B2 marker) on the organic acids test in many cases will correct itself once gut and/or heavy metals are cleared, they said they've seen this happen with patients, without supplementing any B2. So just because B2 is low on the organic acids test doesn't always necessarily mean taking B2 is the answer.
I am still messed up after taking the B Vitamin sprays in Feb 2017. I have never recovered. Before that I was doing great. I mourn for myself. Really upsetting.
which one did you take?
The mixed B vit sprays from B12oils.com
4 days of sprays has ruined my life.
what symptoms are you experiencing and which b vitamin do you think is causing the problem
I'm one of the ones who appears to be sensitive to one or more B vitamins. I'm still early into the experimentation phase and I haven't yet figured out which B's I'm sensitive to. I do know that one or more B vitamins sent me into a long period of anxiety attacks that I really don't want to repeat. I recently got the results of a NutrEval which shows that I'm very low in B2 and B9 (in the red zone) and moderately low in B1, B6, B7, and B12. One initial question I have is about the accuracy of the NutrEval. If this test says I'm deficient in these B vitamins, can I be reasonably sure that I really am? I also had a provoked heavy metals urine test through Doctor's Data which shows I'm a teensy bit high in mercury and very high in lead. So I'm taking to heart @renski's post #1206 regarding glutaric acid correcting after heavy metals are cleared (currently doing chelation therapy for that).
I had tried taking Seeking Health's Optimal Start a while back which might have set me off, but if I remember correctly I was also starting up on methylated B12 and methylfolate at the same time. I wasn't keeping a very good log back then (since corrected), so I can't be sure. I still like Optimal Start because it contains many of the vitamins and minerals mentioned in this thread excluding B12 and folate in a recommended dose requiring 4 capsules. So it'll be very easy to titrate up on this by starting with 1 capsule. I'm also planning to start titrating up on additional R5P (there's also some R5P in Optimal Start) to see how I do on that. Although I'm also toying with the idea of starting with small doses of R5P alone and adding the Optimal Start later. Any thoughts on which way I should go? Following that I'll start ramping up on B12 and folate especially if I start experiencing folate deficiency symptoms.
I'm very thankful for (and very tired out by) this thread. I've spent most of today trying to absorb all of the information contained in it.
Most people are usually sensitive to methylfolate and methylb12 so I'd test those first one at a time.
Try the others one at a time
After you determine what your sensitive to ...
Try lithium orotate to see if you can tolerate what you are sensitive too. You want to know whether you have a lithium deficiency so you need to experiment on yourself.
this is my 2 cents
@bjl218 Sorry to hear about the difficulties. I am not sure about the accuracy of the testing as I am unfamiliar with it. The best guess is that you are reacting to the mB12. Those type of psych symptoms have been experienced by a subset of people on this site.
There is a theory that low B2 triggers the partial derailment of the methylation pathway. This is the best place to start. Take enough to turn urine Vit B yellow. I had a lot of difficulty with this as I did not seem to be absorbing it well at all.
Then start the mB12....tiny amounts and make sure that you are taking a lot of magnesium, which you should be if you have heavy metals on board. Look up any posts with COMT. This is a genetic SNP that you may have with your reaction. Some of these people find initially taking hydoxocobalamin is easier.
There is nothing subtle about mB12 it is a bit of a ramrod. Tiny amounts in your case until you figure this out.
After established on mB12 then you can add the folate and other componenets of Freddds Protocol, if that is the way you are headed. I can take the combo B products similar to what you are taking now.
I no longer meet the criteria for CFS. But for the first 5 years, I had to take all the Bs separately. For example, for the first couple of years I took B2 at 300mg and mfolate at 4 mg a day. There just aren't products that can accommodate our needs.
All the best.
Due to dog person and Morley Robbins I know what happened.
The B2 caused my body to be flooded with iron and copper.
Immense fatigue, thirst, racing heart, shaking, heavy legs. Horrendous.
@keenly, were you originally diagnosed with low B2 or were you just "experimenting" when this happened? I ask because your symptoms sound similar to mine although in my case, I (mostly) recovered after a month or so. Although I may have started with too high a dose of the B's I was taking. If I were to try this again, I'd start with much lower dosage as recommended above.
There really isn't any technology that can truly diagnose mineral and many other deficiencies in our tissues. If technology ever came along that did that, natural medicine would take a big leap and remove a lot of guessing and experimenting.
@prioris, Are you saying that I should try lithium orotate to see if it helps me tolerate the B vitamins better or are you saying I should try it to see if I'm sensitive to lithium orotate itself? Now that you mention this, I remember a few years ago I was working with a functional medicine MD who ran a hair mineral test and found that I was very low in lithium. He had me supplement with lithium orotate at that time. I'm wondering if that's why I was better able to tolerate methylation supplements back then...
I'm also debating whether I should delay this experiment until I've significantly reduced my heavy metals given @renski's comment on glutaric acid/B2. I realize that getting methylation working better helps to address heavy metals so there probably isn't a clear answer to this one.
Taking Glutathione itself is another way to detox metals, using B3 to increase NAD+ also apparently does this by converting glutathione back it's reduced form.
Dr. Chris Shade uses glutathione for detox, won't use DMSA etc..
@bjl218 If as you say, you have tested low in B2 on the NutrEval, I would trust it. I've had the test several times and have found that when compared to other tests--early on I had the OAT as well, the results were similar. Also--when I compared my vitamin needs with my snps on 23andme, it made sense. I am MAO++, the gene for which B2 is the cofactor. Hence B2 is something that I worked on for a long time early on. Unfortunately, I still seem to be low in it and am trying a combination approach of both basic B2 and the coenzymated form of r-5-p. This means I'll be taking 100mg of regular B2 and 25mg of r-5-p. I see above that @stridor took even higher doses. Sometimes we need to flood our system to get enough into the cells...
There are people who flood their bodies with B2. For example, some people with migraine take 400 mg a day. I doubt that the body can absorb these quantities but who knows maybe some of the benefits are from changes with the gut biome.
To be clear, in my case, I was not absorbing it correctly according to the colour of my urine. The first time I tried B12, my tongue swelled and split and the second time I had rashes on my face and weiner, plus crazy looking cappillaries around my corneas. These are classic B2 deficiency symptoms.
12 mg a day is enough now after treating mycoplasma and h pylori infections.
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