You aren't going to believe this...Mycoplasma/Lo/XMRV

[Cloud]

Red flags went up for me immediately last spring when I saw Dr Lo's name on the research agenda. Years ago I read all the information on genetically engineered Micoplasma, Dr Nicholson, etc. But, with this current study, I let my concerns go mostly because I saw Dr Alter as a man of integrity who wasn't about to participate in any under the table nonsense. Maybe that's naive, but it's what I did. Maybe it would be good to keep an eye on this. I wouldn't be the least surprised to learn of government involvement in the origins of our disease.

Also, I have noticed for many years that Doxy will ease my symptoms within 24-48 hours....I have finally concluded it must be due to it's anti-inflammatory effects, because I wouldn't respond that quickly to it's anti-bacterial affects, and because it does nothing for me long term. I have heard that response to Doxy is quite common in our community. I do the same with Azythromycin (better). I don't understand how some feel it's logical that this good response to Doxy means one is likely to be xmrv+? Because of the genetic engineering? Interesting how all this is re-surfacing again.

 

[Tia]

Just what I thought then: This IS from the military, created to put down resistance in war out in the battle. (My grandfather was in the WW2 and caught it and he passed it on to my mom who is autistic and then to me who have ME. So the question is: snce now this Dr. Lo is working with the scientists on a treatment/cure, will they ALLOW us to be cured or what? And what do they make of us being sick and not being able to contribute to society? I know I'd kill to be able to work!

Solitaire: What you're saying adds up pretty darn well, I'm going to try Cat's slaw if i can find it and take it in small doses.

 

[Tia]

it's a virus. doesn't have to be used on "millions of us"... just on One who becomes Two , then Four, then 8, and goes_ viral_ to Millions; to where we presently are. what a way to deal with overpopulation. omg, and secret files, and talk of nwo; reality, stranger than science fiction, again. very logical theory. so simple, and not as if there isn't an over-population problem to deal with. i am getting reeled in bc it is just so sensible. but oh the lack of humanity, lack of compassion this would require : the dark, dark side at the ultimate worst.

I'm all into this conspiracything with NWO and H.A.A.R.P and illuminati and all of that and have been for some time now, but what gets me, is why they didn't make a virus that killed us instead of just putting us to sleep so to speak? It would cost less if they killed the soldiers on the other side in ww2 than to make them sick because then they would be on disability and cost alot. Now there's no soubt in my mind that this IS from biological warfare, NO doubt whatsoever since my grandfaher was in WW2 and got this, then passed it down to my moter who has got aspergers who pased it on to me that have ME, but why not just kill them instead? What do they make of making us sick? Treatments? Hmm, doesn't add up.

Riley said:

Tia, I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. The Gulf War was 1990-1991. The history of ME goes back many decades before that. I'm assuming you meant your grandfather was in WWII? Are you implying that the American military has somehow been systematically using weaponized ME, which they invented, on their own soldiers for at least the past 60 -70 years?

All I know, is that my grandfather had it and he was in WW2, and he passed it on to my mother who passed it on to me. That's all I'm saying.

 

[dipic]

I'm all into this conspiracything with NWO and H.A.A.R.P and illuminati and all of that and have been for some time now, but what gets me, is why they didn't make a virus that killed us instead of just putting us to sleep so to speak?

Because it's a load of #$&%, as are most conspiracy theories regarding "NWO", the "illuminati", etc. There are so many holes, inconsistencies, outright contradictions, etc. etc. with these "theories", that obviously a lot of things are not going to reasonably and rationally add up.

The truth may not ever be known but ludicrous conspiracy theories revolving around an all powerful, omnipotent, shadowy organization, pulling the strings on many or all of the worlds "problems" is certainly not it. I can sympathize with wanting a nice simple little answer and reason for all the tragedy, suffering, and injustice in the world (especially when it's one that gives you a "face" to blame and aim your frustration and bitterness toward)... The brain likes to connect and find patterns in things when it can; but under close inspection and scrutinization, you will see these "pieces" don't quite fit as nice and smoothly as such theories would allow when viewed from an intellectual distance.

Now there's no soubt in my mind that this IS from biological warfare, NO doubt whatsoever since my grandfaher was in WW2 and got this, then passed it down to my moter who has got aspergers who pased it on to me that have ME

How do you explain my and presumably hundreds of thousands of others' ME where none of their parents or grandparents fought in a war nor have a single other family member who also have ME or other disorders or test positive for any of these infections? Why is it that I'm the only person I know of in my entire town that has this illness, let alone my family?

"Correlation does not imply causation."

 

[Cloud]

I don't know about legitimacy of the particular ideas expressed here....but governments trying new weapons and drugs on their own uninformed people is nothing new. It's been going on for centuries...and that's fact, not theory. One of the headlines just today is a piece on the USA apologizing to Guatemala for deliberately infecting some of their defenseless and vulnerable population with Syphilis, so they could test new drugs. Of course the public apology is only a show because that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[dipic]

I don't know about legitimacy of the particular ideas expressed here....but governments trying new weapons and drugs on their own uninformed people is nothing new. It's been going on for centuries...and that's fact, not theory.

Just so there is no confusion, I was addressing the larger, overreaching theories concerning silly stuff like illuminati, rockafeller, bloomberg, freemasons, "New World Order", etc. I'm not arguing that our government isn't incapable of doing insidious things to persons including it's own citizens, and that it hasn't in the past. I just want to keep this particular discussion, (regarding theories of the origin) of our illness... level headed, I suppose.

 

[moonlight]

I have tried to get rid of mycoplamsa for over 10 years now. I even went to Dr. lerner- his treatement is really heavy duty but he said to get rid of it is really difficult but until i got rid of it i would not be able to get rid of hhv-6a or cmv. I have beeb researching all of this for years now...

 

[Narey]

I found this forum by a search on Dr. Lo... wanted to interject a little late in the 'discussion' that you can read an article with a lot of info here: http://lymebusters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rash&action=display&thread=14409

and I would very much recommend Dr. Scott's book, which you can look at here.... http://www.amazon.com/Extremely-Unf...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290545991&sr=1-1

You will see that they had to test the pathogens they were developing... that they tested on unsuspecting African communities by giving them a smallpox vaccine infected... three years later, those same communities started having AIDS like illnesses... they tested on gay men in the USA in a hepatitis B vaccine... several years later, the first cases of AIDS became known in the same communities... There are documents. It is fascinating, macabre and astounding, but plausible and probable. There has been much sweeping under the rug, and calling the victims mentally ill... a ploy to avoid the truth.

Why does it sound crazy? It's like a puzzle that suddenly comes together and fits perfectly. Missing pieces are found...

 

[Recovery Soon]

Why does it sound crazy?

Cause it is.

 

[Cloud]

I found this forum by a search on Dr. Lo... wanted to interject a little late in the 'discussion' that you can read an article with a lot of info here: http://lymebusters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rash&action=display&thread=14409

and I would very much recommend Dr. Scott's book, which you can look at here.... http://www.amazon.com/Extremely-Unf...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290545991&sr=1-1

You will see that they had to test the pathogens they were developing... that they tested on unsuspecting African communities by giving them a smallpox vaccine infected... three years later, those same communities started having AIDS like illnesses... they tested on gay men in the USA in a hepatitis B vaccine... several years later, the first cases of AIDS became known in the same communities... There are documents. It is fascinating, macabre and astounding, but plausible and probable. There has been much sweeping under the rug, and calling the victims mentally ill... a ploy to avoid the truth.

Why does it sound crazy? It's like a puzzle that suddenly comes together and fits perfectly. Missing pieces are found...

Crazy they could actually be that corrupt and immoral...YES! Crazy as in too far out there to be true.....Not at all.

 

[MHope]

Watch this video...it's long...but worth it. It covers all the names and topics covered in this controversial thread.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/in-lies-we-trust/

 

[dipic]

Watch this video...it's long...but worth it. It covers all the names and topics covered in this controversial thread.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/in-lies-we-trust/

And why should anyone "trust" anything this documentary (perhaps should be in quotes as well?) claims?

Honest question.

In JREF and sharp, skeptical, open minds I trust.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=114002
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=144340
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4785852&postcount=9

 

[MHope]

So I can only assume you haven't watched the video just yet...maybe too busy searching for links to post.

After watching it...as a test...let's see if you're able to formulate your own sharp, skeptical and open-minded opinion.

Lastly, do send me the seven pages of critical notes from your third link...I'm not a conspiracy theorist about anything in life; however I do like to gather data from all sides before formulating my own opinion.

 

[dipic]

So I can only assume you haven't watched the video just yet...maybe too busy searching for links to post.

After watching it...as a test...let's see if you're able to formulate your own sharp, skeptical and open-minded opinion.

Lastly, do send me the seven pages of critical notes from your third link...I'm not a conspiracy theorist about anything in life; however I do like to gather data from all sides before formulating my own opinion.

First of all, I have indeed actually watched the "documentary" in question, however it has been quite a number of years since. To re-watch and do even a fraction of what you have requested of me now would require a level of energy and cognitive function that I could only dream I had at this moment.

And although I'm sure you're fully well aware, those 7 pages are not mine and I regret to say that I do not have a copy of them but you are certainly free to contact the person who claims to and request to see them if you feel so inclined. You did say you liked to gather data (from both sides), correct?

I'm honestly curious as to what your take on it is. After all, you posted the link, but didn't have much in the way of own your opinion on the matter (other than the fact that you apparently believe that this conspiratorial "documentary" has some value to the topic at hand.) That is of course assuming you do have one at this point and aren't still in the process of "gathering data."

I believe I've posted my own opinions on some of the matters discussed in this thread a couple pages back if you care to look them up.

At any rate, I asked a fairly simple and honest question for which I was hoping, well, at least an honest answer... as opposed to a homework assignment delivered with snark.

 

[markmc20001]

Watch this video...it's long...but worth it. It covers all the names and topics covered in this controversial thread.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/in-lies-we-trust/

Long clip. I found the part from about 48 minutes to about 112 minutes interesting. Especially the part about Henry Kissinger. Also, the stuff about Litton Bionetics Labs in the 1970's researching a retrovirus and cancer.

Learned a new phrase too. "Plausable Deniability" Basically the means of dragging out disease research for years and years because their is no proof of existance.

 

[Deatheye]

Gives me just the feeling of a conspiratorial "documentary".
I don't remember the details but there were a lot of times I just thought " well, that looks fishi but there are so many other explanations for this."
He makes asumptions about why people do something. And every time he does this there is something big and Evil behind it. All the time he mentions that you can deside yourself while always telling how evil this all is... The Papers he showed weren't readable, so yeah a black block of unreadable text is the proof I''m looking for.
And no I'm not interested to search for them in readable form.

Just too many things remind me of typical conspiracy theories with a lot of assumptions in it.

 

[Mark]

Well I can't get the alleged documentary to play but I think I've heard much of this story before...

Such things are simply an inevitable consequence of state secrecy. Secrecy could perhaps be said to be the cause of paranoia.

Those who seek the truth, but know that information is hidden from them, have no choice, if they want to form beliefs about how their world works, but to consider hypotheses and surmises based on circumstantial evidence and their own reasoning about how people tend to behave.

And in the absence of the evidence, whatever this video says, it could be true, or not - there's no way to tell.

To believe something about the matter - either way - strongly and religiously, yet based on no real evidence, is fundamentally and dangerously irrational, of course. However, I firmly believe that it's also both legitimate, and evidently natural and inevitable, for people to form opinions, guesses, and hunches - with various strengths of conviction in their beliefs about such unevidenced hypotheses.

In other words: conspiracy theories are simply a reaction to some hidden reality which is guessed at. They are a symptom of distrust - and the distrust has an origin. The origin of the conspiracy theory is almost inevitably going to be very different to the hypothesis constructed from outside the "inner circle" of those who know the truth, and probably the truth is vastly more mundane. But until we have full transparency on all issues, conspiracy theorising will continue.

Whether you believe what the video says is right - to a certainty of 0%, 5%, 50% or 100% - and whether you welcome the video or whether you're sick of stuff like that, there ought to be one interest you have in common: the release of official secrets (such as the UK Official Secrets related to ME/CFS and MS) and the opening up of access to all the documentation (such as published and unpublished scientific work). Only then can ordinary people be spared from going mental with fear about just what the hell is going on.

Anyway, I'm off to Wikileaks...a little less colourful but rather more reliable I suspect...

 

[knackers323]

Red flags went up for me immediately last spring when I saw Dr Lo's name on the research agenda. Years ago I read all the information on genetically engineered Micoplasma, Dr Nicholson, etc. But, with this current study, I let my concerns go mostly because I saw Dr Alter as a man of integrity who wasn't about to participate in any under the table nonsense. Maybe that's naive, but it's what I did. Maybe it would be good to keep an eye on this. I wouldn't be the least surprised to learn of government involvement in the origins of our disease.

Also, I have noticed for many years that Doxy will ease my symptoms within 24-48 hours....I have finally concluded it must be due to it's anti-inflammatory effects, because I wouldn't respond that quickly to it's anti-bacterial affects, and because it does nothing for me long term. I have heard that response to Doxy is quite common in our community. I do the same with Azythromycin (better). I don't understand how some feel it's logical that this good response to Doxy means one is likely to be xmrv+? Because of the genetic engineering? Interesting how all this is re-surfacing again.

I get this same response from clarithromycin after about 36 hours. Is that to fast to be anti bacterial?

Anyone else find the same kind of response from abx?

 

[Dr. McChuck]

Probably a one-time poster here, but reading all of this I feel compelled to add my 2 cents.
I HAVE, and have studied Lyme disease for 15 years.
The patent 5,242,820 is certainly real, and if you have a background in histology and microbiology, the reading is truly horrific. A mycoplasma was created, and for biological warfare, on Plum Island just off the coast of Connecticut, and about 40 miles from the now famous town of Lyme, where Lyme was first diagnosed. But- you might be wondering that Mycoplasma Fermentans Inconitus, and/r bugdorfi does not kill right away, which is true, but it disables, and becomes a burden. There is a saying- The doctor that knows syphilis, knows medicine- because of the many symtoms that might point one the wrong way. So too with the Lyme spirochete. You might also note that the tick that carried the disease was not endemic to the area, but seemed to appear about the same time.
Bugdorfi- the spirochete- is what we associate with Lyme disease- but with a very high degree of coinfection rate, mycoplasma fermentans Incognitus is also present.
Treatment with Doxycycline works quite well for spirochetes, but not so well for a bug engineered to be near impossible to detect, and to have multiple layers of resistance, and be able to penetrate anywhere within your body.
The spirochete causes a large number of symptoms, much like syphilis, and I was actually diagnosed because I had 45 of the over 100 symptoms, a Canadian Lyme disease criteria. It was never isolated from my blood.
I no longer have those symptoms- but the mycoplasma is still there. About every three or four years it comes back- always very subtly, but gets worse. My blood tests all scream that I have chronic infection, but not so loud my MD, who is a lyme skeptic, gets alarmed. My Lyme Doctor puts me on a three month regimen of Doxy right away.
The symptoms that I currently have are Lyme slime in my lungs, CF and fibromyalgia, with a new one this go around- brain fog. I am quite dizzy. (A CT scan was negative, and I am in good heart and lung health). Along the way I have acquired Lupus and Astrhma, diseases that have no occurrence in my family history. New research points to Stevia as being able to break down the biofilm barrier of bacteria, and I credit that with my Herz reaction occurring sooner than normal this time. But the mycoplasma is doing what it was designed to do and causing my autoimmune system to attack itself. The Lupus and asthma do NOT go away.
I am on several Lyme discussion groups and politically, our government and big pharma is our enemy. It is much more lucrative to treat symptoms, than cure the disease, and so far the ISDA has been packed with big pharma reps and Lyme reality deniers..The good news is that state by state, legislatures are recognizing Lyme
I wish all of you luck that may be dealing with this disease. It is eventually going to win.