XMRV revisited (Split from Hornig/Lipkin lawsuit thread)

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Hip

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many of these antiretroviral drugs have anti-viral effects, so the benefit may be coming for other reasons.
Yes, tenofovir for example strongly reduces IL-10 (a Th2 cytokine), but increases levels of IL-12 (a Th1 cytokine). So tenofovir seems to act as a Th2 to Th1 immunomodulator (like oxymatrine is thought to be), and would likely be good at fighting any virus in ME/CFS, including enteroviruses, HHV-6, cytomegalovirus and EBV. It also has anti-inflammatory effects. Ref: 1

In this respect, I think if ME/CFS patients are reporting benefits on tenofovir, it's perhaps something that needs to be investigated further. Tenofovir might be make a good immunomodulatory add-on to oxymatrine, to support oxymatrine.


Tenofovir has an effect against human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs), and Dr Brigitte Huber showed that there is increased HERV-K18 activity in the post-mononucleosis subset of ME/CFS. So for that subset, tenofovir's anti-HERV effects could conceivably be helping.

Interestingly enough, Dr Huber was also one of the researchers who found she was unable to replicate Judy Mikovits's results.
 

Daffodil

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@Hip interesting.

there have also been those who recovered with Raltegravir I think. well at least one that I know of

I know of one who recovered on AZT, too.

this is really the strangest disease
 

Hip

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here have also been those who recovered with Raltegravir I think.
Yes, and raltegravir has potent antiviral effects against the herpes virus family:

• Raltegravir is proven effective against cytomegalovirus and herpes simplex virus, inhibiting viral replication by a 30- to 700-fold (ref: 1).

• Raltegravir may be effective against all herpes family viruses, including HHV-6, EBV, varicella zoster virus (ref: 1).

So ME/CFS success with raltegravir does not necessarily imply it works by an anti-retrovirus or anti-HERV mechanism. It may just be due to its anti-herpes effects.
 

Daffodil

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Yes, and raltegravir has potent antiviral effects against the herpes virus family:

• Raltegravir is proven effective against cytomegalovirus and herpes simplex virus, inhibiting viral replication by a 30- to 700-fold (ref: 1).

• Raltegravir may be effective against all herpes family viruses, including HHV-6, EBV, varicella zoster virus (ref: 1).

So ME/CFS success with raltegravir does not necessarily imply it works by an anti-retrovirus or anti-HERV mechanism. It may just be due to its anti-herpes effects.
i suppose so. it failed in the MS trials
 

Hip

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it failed in the MS trials
Yeah, but I am just reading this article that says the failed raltegravir results do not disprove the HERV theory of MS. The article mentions that:
it has been noted that individuals with established HIV show a markedly lower rate of MS than the general population. Some researchers speculated that it is not the HIV infection that is responsible for the apparent protective effect, but rather -- since these observations were made in developed countries -- from antiretroviral treatment.
 

Hustler

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The Iranians found XMRV in HIV Aids patients.

They looked at the most significant part of the MLV in this thus very very solid study using a huge number of patients to control against. This is the best kind of study from that part of the world. Must be said.


Do those patients have ME? Were they ME patients infected with MLV who went on to be infected with HIV ?


X
MLV
R
V


MLV is an XMRV

As Mikovits always said about this exotic pathogen


Lipkin let this slip deliberately.
He said in his press conference that maybe he used the wrong primers.
He gave the impression he cared.
He pretended to go back and look with other primers and he pretended there was not enough money to go further. He has the most research money in the bank.

Did he put in yet another grant application with Jose Montoya to take yet another look at those 85% yet another third time? Hiding behind his own excuses and sweat ?

Some people get a thrill being on the run.


I failed THREE times on antiretrovirals, kept failing in spite of gains.Big fail. But I kept trying and the fourth time, guess what, THEY WORKED. Big WIN. I combined raltegravir with tenofovir and managed to override the IRIS that I had previously got.

Lower doses built up to full dose.
No need to overpower the system.

I am now cured of ME/cfs

I am the Hustler
You just need to work out where to hustle


panic at the cdc ?
or they out playing tennis?

Game set AND MATCH MIKOVITS
 
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I am now cured of ME/cfs
I've seen several people get excited when some intervention is working for them, and claim to be cured. It often times proves to be temporary improvement and far from being cured.

Have you tested this?

One of the Norwegian patients receiving Rituximab went out an began running marathons when he felt better, and from what I remember, he hasn't crashed.

That sounds like remission,.. or cure. :thumbsup:
 

Hip

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I am now cured of ME/cfs
What level of ME/CFS did you have before you took raltegravir with tenofovir, on the scale of mild, moderate and severe?

And you say you now have no more symptoms? How long did it you take to go from having ME/CFS to being in full remission? That is, how long did it take for theses antivirals to work?

How long have you been in remission with no symptoms, and are you still taking these two antivirals?
 
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Hustler

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I've seen several people get excited when some intervention is working for them, and claim to be cured. It often times proves to be temporary improvement and far from being cured.

Have you tested this?

One of the Norwegian patients receiving Rituximab went out an began running marathons when he felt better, and from what I remember, he hasn't crashed.

That sounds like remission,.. or cure. :thumbsup:
I have been on the arv meds for a couple of years and in the past year the improvement has been sustained in fact surprisingly

Rituximab vs Arv s ?

No idea to be honest if one better than the other. The physician must get the final call. His responsibility. If both very low dose and increased then perhaps both just as good. I think arv s just about get my vote though
 

Hustler

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What level of ME/CFS did you have before you took raltegravir with tenofovir, on the scale of mild, moderate and severe?

And you say you now have no more symptoms? How long did it you take to go from having ME/CFS to being in full remission? That is, how long did it take for theses antivirals to work?

How long have you been in remission with no symptoms, and are you still taking these two antivirals?
Moderate disease
5 years on arv s and still going yes
1 year ago kicked in damn well
Full remission
 

Hip

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5 years on arv s and still going yes
1 year ago kicked in damn well
So it took 4 years of raltegravir and tenofovir before improvements appeared?

Can I ask , what doses (in mg) of raltegravir and tenofovir were you taking each day during those 4 years?


Were you tested for active viral infections? Like coxsackievirus B, echovirus, HHV-6, Epstein-Barr virus, and cytomegalovirus?
 

Hustler

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So it took 4 years of raltegravir and tenofovir before improvements appeared?

Can I ask , what doses (in mg) of raltegravir and tenofovir were you taking each day during those 4 years?


Were you tested for active viral infections? Like coxsackievirus B, echovirus, HHV-6, Epstein-Barr virus, and cytomegalovirus?
There were jolts of improvement. In hindsight I should have treated coinfections before or during better. Instead of going in all nuclear which made it all messy and Irisy. Iris is the potentially deadly immune reaction from taking arv s. But to be honest given the hamnering ME gives you it kind of makes you battle through the Iris. Once all that dust settled then at the end of year 4 n start of year 5 it all clicked. If i went back i d have adopted a more gentle approach.
But we couldnt have known.
Just had to hustle as best i could.
Hhv6 decreased with the arv s too yes.
In hiv aids they say it s the hhv6 that kills not the actual hiv
 

Daffodil

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@Hustler hmm i took tenofovir and raltegravir for a long while and it only helped minimally. i wonder if, now that i have treated Lyme, it might help more?

remember you could just be treating HERV activity too...since you treated early and had few advanced coinfections, it worked...?

guess it would be funny if it was XMRV afterall. like funny tragic
 

Hustler

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@Hustler hmm i took tenofovir and raltegravir for a long while and it only helped minimally. i wonder if, now that i have treated Lyme, it might help more?

remember you could just be treating HERV activity too...since you treated early and had few advanced coinfections, it worked...?

guess it would be funny if it was XMRV afterall. like funny tragic
Original or generics?
Did you start slow n build up or take the full nuclear dose from the start?
 
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