Why this reaction to CALCIUM D GLUCARATE?!?

[tootsieroll]

I had a horrible setback after a stint on birth control pills and it threw me into the estrogen dominance storm! I’m already predisposed to estrogen dominance but when I had msssive menstrual bleeding for 3 months, it was either bleed to death or take the damn pills. I so regret it since acupuncture was what stopped the momentary bleeding.

Now I’m trying to eliminate the excess estrogen to help the anxiety/fear, hot flashes, MANY ED symptoms to subside. First I started on a 50mg DIM that produced an excruciating headache that lasted for weeks despite me stopping the product. I thought ‘okay I got the estrogen brewing in my blood now....great’.

I took 50-100mg of calcium d glucarate to help the detox along and it finally eased the headaches a bit except now i’m left exhausted! To the point where i’m having anxiety and heart palps! It’s been 2 days since that dose and the anxiety/palps are still with me!!!! Im thankful the headache has died down but i feel like a mental case.

Why am I reacting this way to a ‘wonder’ supplement that has ladies and men singing praises?!? Does it affect my hypothyroid or adrenals? Is it detoxing something more than my bad estrogen?? How else can I get rid of all this excess estrogen if I cant even resort to DIM or CDG. My next plan of attack is just to eat apples/broccoli/ and raw carrots.

 

[Shoshana]

I have no idea the answer to your important question, but I must say, @tootsieroll
I am SO very sorry. That sounds like an awful experience.

It does sound like eating foods that particularly help, is a good way to try.

I wish I knew more , but don't so I cannot advise at all,
but I do care!
Anyone would have a terrible time, to deal with that series of experiences.

 

[tootsieroll]

Thank you for the support!! It is so comforting because the medical professionals have all been scratching their heads and this has left me feeling scared and alone. The higher I went on the birth control, the more my mental state deteriorated and then to be told by the gyno ‘some women react this way to the pill’. So it was either reduce myself to a person debilitated by the mental condition the pill was causing or it was to run out of his office fast and never look back. I ran so fast to find an acupuncturist cause I knew conventional medicine was a dead end. My only options given were birth control or surgery. I thought ‘I don’t want to maim my body just because you can’t find the answer to my problem’.

Acupuncture wasn’t a cure as it only stopped the bleeding for that month. The pills left me with a hormonal imbalance worse than before. My last menstrual period came and I still bled out except there was a bigger timeframe between the gushing. My body is slowly rectifying itself. My monthly period is here once again and I’m crossing my fingers I don’t have to go back to the expensive acupuncture sessions. Which why it is paramount I do my due diligence and help my body heal rather than just masking or temporarily deactivating the problem.

I hope someone else will come across my post and give me some insight. But thank you Shoshana for your kind words. It is so needed right now *hugs*

 

[pattismith]

Hello tootsie,

what kind of birth control pill did you used?
Birth control pills with progesterone only exist. Maybe it would be more helpful for you if you think estrogens are harmful to you?

 

[tootsieroll]

Hi pattismith. I seem to convert anything synthetic into estrogen. They gave me prometrium at the beginning but it only lasted about 2 doses until I woke up in a panic attack drenched in sweat and I couldn't cool down from that hot flash. Was really frightening. So I think my issue is to eliminate estrogen rather than supplement with something to offset the levels.

To go back further in my story, the whole reason this bleeding started was because my naturopath gave me something called glutathione. It delayed my period when I was on it and then once I stopped taking it, thats when the gushing happened. It must have triggered my hypothalamus in some way because I remembered it having a cognitive effect, and that in turn imbalanced my hormone levels. My body either started producing or releasing huge amounts of estrogen to cause nonstop bleeding like that. I have to find a way to balance my body again.

 

[tootsieroll]

Anyone? I just thought i’d try even less DIM and CDG by taking 1/8 of a capsule. Don’t know the outcome till tomorrow but I notice that my body is getting warmer but not into a full blown hotflash. I don’t know how to discern if this is a detox reaction or if this is DIM actually doing the opposite for me and making estrogen more active hence the hot flashes when I take it. The hot flashes do not happen with calcium d glucarate alone. What the heck is happening? Maybe my health is too fragile to handle these.

 

[tootsieroll]

Well now I feel like crying. The dose last night has me hot flashing like mad and heart palpitations. Ive been gasping for air in my sleep cus I can’t breathe due to anxiety. Oh god what have I done to myself. I hope this will go away if I stop everything. Last time I had awful headaches/hot flashes from a dose of DIM and it didnt go away till i took a calcium d glucarate. But I took a small dose of CDG along with DIM last night so im not sure why I still feel the hot flashes. Im so stupid for trying to experiment. I just wanted to feel better and now I feel 100x worse. Even my hands and feet are hot flashing..ugh. Trying so hard not to cry. My theory is DIM is stirring up my estrogen and while CDG helps detox the estrogen DIM activates, hence I feel better from DIM side effects, but it also causes anxiety becus it detoxes more than just the estrogen out of me. Can this be possible? I hope someone replies. I feel really alone.

 

[Saint George]

I had a very similar reaction to the estrogen dominance supplements. Seeking Health DIM + IC3 and 500mg Thorne Calcium D Glucarate and milk thistle. I took this stack for some time after dutch saliva test showed high estrogen. The first two months was life changing for my mood and well being, so it was clear and correct diagnosis that I needed to rid the estrogen. After about the 3rd month, I started feeling high estrogen again; hot flashes, palmar erythema (red palms), and not feeling great. I think these are powerful agents; it is very frustrating how little information there is online about CDG side effects, so I can't point out whether that caused some prolonged problems, but I definitely think DIM can lower or raise estrogen depending on your levels. In my case, I think this protocol lowered the estrogen in a good way those first two months, and then I should've stopped them / pulsed them, rather than continue to take them. I think continuing to take for too long then raised estrogen that day and cause estrogen attacks. I am male btw. I continue with the milk thistle, though I worry about the finicky oxalate dumping people on this forum complain about.

 

[WinterWren]

Hope someone else replies, hormones are tricky... it's hard to give insight.
In my experience the hormonal imbalances are always shifting, weather or not I'm using supplements or trying to interfere, and if I just give it time that seems like the best bet.

I've had times of super heavy bleeding, and other times of high androgens, anovulation, bad PMS, now I have no PMS whatsoever... but problems around ovulation.

Can your doctor order bloodwork for your hormones? I like to keep checking them but I know it doesn't give all the answers.A naturopath might have ideas about gentle liver support, although the food you listed sounds like a great idea. Less risk. Glutathione might have been too powerful or had some other affect like you mentioned (I know lots of people on PR recommend it but I've never tried it, just NAC which is supposed to boost it).

I do OK with calcium d glucarate but I can't say it's ever made an obvious impact on anything (hard to know). I also used activated charcoal powder once in awhile when my estrogen felt high (supposedly it binds to estrogen and everything else it comes across in the GI system) but I have no idea if the science behind AC is good or not (can't remember anything I've researched). I have it around my house because it seems to help when I accidentally consume gluten (to lessen GI reaction).

 

[tootsieroll]

Thanks @WinterWren. I feel like such an anomaly. I didn't tolerate quarter of a Calcium d Glucarate either. Gave me heart palps/anxiety and I remained exhausted for a week after that one dose. Even gluten has uncommon results in me. Most people experience GI effects but for me, it causes major phlegm in throat to the point where it's difficult to breathe.

I've been bleeding heavily again this month and only thing able to stop it is acupuncture for a week but same thing will happen all over again next month. I went to see my regular gp for hormone panel. I'm wasn't sure what to ask for. I was given a requisition for LH,FSH,testosterone, estradiol, progesterone, prolactin, liver ALT, DHEA, thyroid. He said anything beyond that, he would need to send me to a specialist. I know it's not as accurate as a saliva test but at least it will show me the estrogen progesterone ratio.

@Saint George, is the Dutch saliva test most accurate? Do you think you would have done better on a very very low dose? I was thinking of using Natures Way DIM plus. It's only 12.5mg of DIM per pill and it says to take up to 5 capsules but I'll play it safe and stick to 1-2.

PS. I have the strangest ED symptom since taking that last birth control pill in August 2018. I had severe nasal congestion which I thought was from a cold. Cold left but congestion stayed. Miraculously the nasal congestion went away when I trialed the DIM+CDG. It came back a week after my experiments ended. Estrogen causes major inflammation! I'm hoping in future this will be gone along with the post nasal drip.

 

[Yiyiwi]

Hi thank you for sharing your experience. I wanted to share my own experience with DIM and Calcium d glucarate as well in hopes of learning more about it and finding a cure for my horrible symptoms.

I started having symptoms fo estrogen dominance ever since I was 12 years old. It first manisfested as migraine headaches and doctors only gave me painkillers.

Over the years, I have also developed severe acne, irritability, brain fog, RIDICULOUSLY HEAVY periods, spre breasts 2 weeks before period, cold hands and feet, chest pains, heart palpitations and the worst, anxiety.

I have visited different doctors FIVE TIMES (family doctor, emergency, etc.) but all kept saying to me, "take more painkillers" or "it's normal to feel cold". Btw I also got my thyroid and iron levels checked and they turned out fine.

I'm 100% sure that I have estrogen dominance. I've been suffering for 9 years (2011 to now). I am at the point where I just finished my degree and cant find a job because of my symptoms.

The thing that worked for me at first was VITEX. IT HELPED MY HEADACHES AND BRAIN FOG BY A LOT. It was the only thing that helped me think straight for the first time in years. I took it for one year but it came with side effects. It made me gain weight (8 pounds), increased heart palpitations and anxiety and led to extreme fatigue. I concluded that it does raise progesterone but also messes up with my estrogen levels. So I stopped taking it.

Then there comes DIM and CALCIUM D GLUCARATE. DIM cleared up my acne in just 2 weeks. I experienced fatigue and very bad headaches for 8 days, but those eventually faded away as I kept taking it. I was happy at first because for the first time I felt that my hands and feet were warm and my face was so clear. My urine also turned yellowish as a result of taking DIM (one sign that it's working). I took it for 2 months and tried 3 different brands. However, I stopped taking it because it gave me some side effects: increased irritability, hairloss and confusion. Since it's an aromatise inhibitor, I felt like it was increasing my testosterone levels and DHT. Also, I still had breast tenderness despite taking it which indicates that it did not get rid of my estrogen levels.

Then I found out about Calcium d glucarate. I actually finished taking 2 bottles (different brands) and I just went to buy my third bottle yesterday. The first 2 bottles were life changing. I stopped having cold hands and feet, stopped getting headaches, my heart palpitations subsided..it was the first time that I actually felt that my estrogen levels were decreasing.

HOWEVER, I have actually been noticing some side effects. I feel like it's doing more to my body than just flushing out my bad estrogen levels. It was working at first but then I felt that it was also flushing out other things such as MAGNESIUM LEVELS. When I was on my second bottle of calcium d glucarate, there was a time when I woke up and could not lift my legs. My legs felt so heavy even though I was not on my PMS week. Thankfully I always have magnesium supplements and taking them made the heaviness go away. However, for some reason I forgot to keep taking magnesium.

I still didn't connect the two until I woke up this morning (3rd bottle). I also took calcium d glucarate the night before. I woke up with CHEST PAINS, ANXIETY and HEART PALPITATIONS. I literally spent my day at home since I could not function with the chest pain. I also went to the ER to get them checked but the xray turned out fine. Then I suddenly remembered the magnesium and took it! Literally all the bad side effects went away. Now I can finally go to bed feeling relieved.

I'm not sure if I have an actual magnesium deficiency or the calcium d glucarate reduced my magnesium levels. There arent many studies about calcoum d glucarate so I am not sure if I will continue using it and it's so expensive. I might continue taking magnesium and hope that it might also help my estrogen dominance.

I'm sorry to hear your experience and I wish the side effects get resolved soon =(

 

[drmullin30]

Hello Tootsie Roll and I'm sorry you are suffering like this. DIM and Calcium D-glucarate are very high in sulphur, are potent liver detoxification agents and also will mobilize and chelate mercury. It sounds to me like you have opened up a detoxification pathway and are having mercury symptoms. You might want to look into lowering your toxic metal load as part of your protocol. Alpha-lipoic-acid is good for mercury but you'll need to be careful as it can also mobilize large amounts of mercury. Some folks have had success with the Cutler mercury protocol and there are other mercury protocols. I have also had good results from coffee enemas to help with mercury and sulphur issues. Also, if you are reacting this way to these supplements, you might have problems with sulphur metabolism and you might need molybdenum supplementation to help with that. You also may have high sulphates or sulfites. You can check your urine sulphate levels with strips like these: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalo...MI44P60Iul5wIVhZOzCh2U0QqYEAAYAiAAEgL_cvD_BwE

If it turns out your sulphur is high, you will want to look at molybdenum supplementation and have your genetics checked for CBS up-regulation SNPs.

 

[aaron_c]

@drmullin30 can you say more about the potential for DIM and Ca-D-Glucarate to mobilize mercury? I knew that ALA and glutathione can bind to mercury as you describe, but I'm confused about Ca-D-Glucarate. Is it just that it spares glutathione, thereby allowing the body to resume detoxification? Does it directly bind to mercury, and if so, do you have a reference for that? (I'm not trying to imply that if you have no reference you are clearly wrong or making something up, I'm just trying to understand better.)

 

[drmullin30]

Hello @aaron_c per Andy Cutler, DIM and calcium d-glucarate contain thiols (organosulfur compound with certain molecular shape). Thiols will form weak bonds with mercury. The problem is the fact that this bond is weak so the thiol can't carry the mercury all the way out of the body before this bond breaks and the mercury gets redistributed. Sometimes the mercury can be redistributed from the body into the brain which is not good.

ALA forms a double thiol bond with mercury so the bond is much stronger but even still, you need to maintain the levels in the blood to achieve elimination.

 

[tootsieroll]

@drmullin30 Wow I can't believe I've been dealing with this issue since 2018. Sorry I haven't been able to reply. Life has been one big poop show after another. I recently had a hemorrhaging bleed again which took 20 sessions of acupuncture to stop. Now I'm onto my second menstrual cycle since the recent sessions and thankfully my body is able to stop on it's own after 10 days, but not without experiencing some random floods first. It moves like water out of me along with fist sized clots. This time it was brought on by taking a month of Lions Mane supplements. I was hoping it would heal previous brain injury symptoms I suffered. Reading online, it appears to activate flares in people with autoimmune disease, which I wasn't aware of.

This journey down the rabbit hole all started with that glutathione I took in 2018. I distinctly remember being in the shower and I couldn't hold my head up because the sudden inflammation in my neck was so severe, and this was a week into taking the supplement. I also vividly remember that sulfuric taste of glutathione. So did glutathione initially affect this detoxification pathway? Which rendered DIM+CDG useless for me? Glutathione caused an inflammation reaction in my neck and spine that has been persistent since I took it. Now it's obvious the inflammation has made it's way to other tissues like my uterus. I was also thinking of taking a cytokine test but I'm not sure how helpful it would be. Also wanted to add I tried some Vitamin K and A to help the heavy flow this month and all it did was cause hot flashes and create bigger blood clots and delayed the floods that were imminent. So I don't actually think I have a blood clot issue. This phenomenon is definitely caused by something else.

PS. those strips are pretty pricey for the moment. I tried looking for other brands but only came across Bartovation sulfite strips on Amazon, which I believe are not for the same purpose?

Hello Tootsie Roll and I'm sorry you are suffering like this. DIM and Calcium D-glucarate are very high in sulphur, are potent liver detoxification agents and also will mobilize and chelate mercury. It sounds to me like you have opened up a detoxification pathway and are having mercury symptoms. You might want to look into lowering your toxic metal load as part of your protocol. Alpha-lipoic-acid is good for mercury but you'll need to be careful as it can also mobilize large amounts of mercury. Some folks have had success with the Cutler mercury protocol and there are other mercury protocols. I have also had good results from coffee enemas to help with mercury and sulphur issues. Also, if you are reacting this way to these supplements, you might have problems with sulphur metabolism and you might need molybdenum supplementation to help with that. You also may have high sulphates or sulfites. You can check your urine sulphate levels with strips like these: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalo...MI44P60Iul5wIVhZOzCh2U0QqYEAAYAiAAEgL_cvD_BwE

If it turns out your sulphur is high, you will want to look at molybdenum supplementation and have your genetics checked for CBS up-regulation SNPs.

@Yiyiwi I'm sorry to hear your story. My heart goes out to you. Health is such a fickle thing and I hope the magnesium has been a solution for you. I have also added magnesium to my supplements but mostly for my bowel movements. I believe my colon is also inflamed and experience bowel movements only every 4-5 days. But I hope it is an added benefit for other processes in my body.

 

[Victronix]

I don't have any answers here, but having only 4 - 5 bowel movements a week could be thyroid related.

Also, heart palpitations are common for me when my thyroid gets either too high OR too low (which was a surprise, I thought that would only be for too high). I've had a normal TSH test for thyroid before when the dosage was actually much too high (and I was soaking the bed in sweat every night), so if your doctor is only looking at TSH, that's not enough.

I was ultimately diagnosed by an endocrinologist who ignored my labs and looked at my reflexes alone - it was miraculous, but she immediately saw my reflexes were too fast (dosage of Synthroid was too high), dropped my dosage by two levels, and I gradually returned to normal levels over months (but was never the same, long story, something called Hashitoxicosis).

It's important to know that low thyroid can *also* cause extreme and sudden anxiety, which I've had and is terrible to experience.

Finally, magnesium deficiency is part of the hypothyroid constellation - low iron, low magnesium and low B-12: when thyroid isn't functioning well, lots of things start to go wrong, but these 3 deficiencies are seen over and over in conjunction with low thyroid.

I wasn't aware that high estrogen can cause hot flashes, as I've only had those when it has gone low. I get all my hormones checked at least 2x a year, if not more, and my doctor is always fiddling with the levels.

 

[Victronix]

@drmullin30 Wow I can't believe I've been dealing with this issue since 2018. Sorry I haven't been able to reply. Life has been one big poop show after another. I recently had a hemorrhaging bleed again which took 20 sessions of acupuncture to stop. Now I'm onto my second menstrual cycle since the recent sessions and thankfully my body is able to stop on it's own after 10 days, but not without experiencing some random floods first. It moves like water out of me along with fist sized clots. This time it was brought on by taking a month of Lions Mane supplements. I was hoping it would heal previous brain injury symptoms I suffered. Reading online, it appears to activate flares in people with autoimmune disease, which I wasn't aware of.

BTW, just heard that a side effect of some of the COVID vaccines can be excessive menstrual bleeding, fyi, in case you had one of them. A professor or MD is apparently attempting to track the incidence of this and has gotten many women complaining about it.

 

[Dufresne]

CDG is getting more and more attention in mycotoxin detoxification circles. It's now thought by some to be the most important detox channel for mycotoxins. It causes me pretty intense fatigue.

 

[Dufresne]

ALA forms a double thiol bond with mercury so the bond is much stronger but even still, you need to maintain the levels in the blood to achieve elimination.

A lot of people say ALA is the one you want to use last as it can, in theory, grab mercury from the body and deposit it in the brain.

 

[TJ_in_UT]

CDG is getting more and more attention in mycotoxin detoxification circles. It's now thought by some to be the most important detox channel for mycotoxins. It causes me pretty intense fatigue.

That's why I tried it. I've had some wild irritability and other symptoms after a single dose. CDG is supposed to facilitate glucuronidation, which is one of the phase 2 detox pathways that the liver uses to eliminate fat-soluble toxins, like excess estrogen, mycotoxins, and xenobiotics. Also, we have bacteria in our guts that secrete a glucuronidase enzyme that undoes the work our livers did (rude!), and CDG can give that enzyme something else to chew on besides the glucuronidated toxins that are moving through, so they don't get reabsorbed.

I think that anything causing a significant increase in activity in one of the phase 2 pathways is likely to mobilize toxins that were previously sequestered in fat tissue, so you can get an increase in actual circulating toxins, so that's a possible factor. Add to that, you're adding supplemental calcium when most of us are getting too much calcium and not enough magnesium in our diets. Probably supplementing with a dose of magnesium at the same time you take CDG would take the edge off by adding needed Mg and competing with Ca for adsorption. I'm going to give that a try myself next time I attempt a dose of CDG!