What is an undermethylated depressive supposed to eat?

[Booble]

Don't. The heme groups in red meat increases cytokines (inflammation) which increases your risk of dying from covid. This is partly why the Asian countries (Japan, Thailand) have low covid death rates. Red meat isn't a staple item.

There is zero reason to believe that Japan's low rate of Covid infections is in any way tied to eating or not eating meat.

The article you posted says the same thing that every other medical experts say. Early measures, mask wearing and distancing.

 

[Booble]

Can acquiring a calcium deficiency be that achievable if you don't eat dairy?

How did you know you had a calcium deficiency? What symptoms did you have? How did you differentiate those symptoms for calcium deficiency from other mineral deficiencies?

Could you describe how taking methylation supplements caused your calcium deficiency? I have never heard of methylation causing calcium deficiency, only magnesium and potassium. How did you respond to taking calcium? Which and how quickly did symptoms go away?

I ask because I have had severe muscle pains, cramps, and tightness since doing the Fredd Protocol. At the time, I had been on on a dairy free diet for several years before that (I still am dairy free today). I am reconsidering if calcium deficiency is the cause of my muscle symptoms as I have already pursued many other types of deficiencies (thiamin, b3, folate, b12magnesium, potassium, maybe others too).

I also did no dairy for a long, long time.
I think its helpful for staying skinny and possibly for artherosclerosis (jury still out on that one).

I think you could try adding some organic milk and/or cheese back into your diet.

If not, broccoli and flax seeds are good for calcium (but very hard to get enough). Oh, and if you don't mind them, sardines.

 

[bread.]

Chicken McNuggets.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

This is partly why the Asian countries (Japan, Thailand) have low covid death rates. Red meat isn't a staple item.

I think you're right, in that Japan consumes less red meat than the United States. But, we're a developed nation and we consume considerable amounts of meat. What else are you gonna do with money?

Ohh, I forgot to mention that we produce the absolute best red meat, Wagyu!

 

[junkcrap50]

I think you could try adding some organic milk and/or cheese back into your diet.

If not, broccoli and flax seeds are good for calcium (but very hard to get enough). Oh, and if you don't mind them, sardines.

Well I do add a tiny bit of cheese (~2oz/week) and milk (~1 cup/month) occasionally.And I eat a lot of broccoli and spinach. But it's the methylation hit/depletion that I think may have effected my calcium levels. That little bit of dairy and Ca from vegetables may have held calcium levels on a dairy free diet, but it immensly inadequate to recover from methylation refeeding syndrome.

 

[pamojja]

..may have held calcium levels on a dairy free diet, but it immensly inadequate to recover from methylation refeeding syndrome.

Don't guess, test (..your calcium levels). Needs are too individual. I was severely deficient even with diary, before starting any supplementation 12 years ago. It took 2 years of high serum vitamin D3 along with precautionary vitamin K2 to get serum calcium into the middle of normal range in my case. And there it stayed since.

But since we are all different one needs to test, repeatedly.

 

[junkcrap50]

Don't guess, test (..your calcium levels). Needs are too individual. I was severely deficient even with diary, before starting any supplementation 12 years ago. It took 2 years of high serum vitamin D3 along with precautionary vitamin K2 to get serum calcium into the middle of normal range in my case. And there it stayed since.

But since we are all different one needs to test, repeatedly.

Serum calcium is tightly regulated and is only a very small percentage of total body calcium. This is true for other minerals like magnesium and potassium. So testing for it and having normal serum calcium does not necessarily rule out a chronic calcium (or other mineral) deficiency.

I have done testing for serum calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc, lots of things. Came back normal. I even did hair mineral testing, which I don't really know how to interpret very well or trust its reliability. Some were normal, at low end of normal, some high.

I did have many years of very low vitamin D even while taking high doses of supplementation (20,000IU/day). So perhaps that made me more susceptible or contribute some to calcium deficiency.

 

[pamojja]

Serum calcium is tightly regulated and is only a very small percentage of total body calcium. This is true for other minerals like magnesium and potassium.

True. But again, everyone is different and in my case it did very clearly show - by serum calcium showing clearly and consistently for 2 years below normal range. Thererfore in my case it was that severe that homeostasis couldn't reglate it enough anymore. Definite calcium deficiency.

On the other hand my even more severe Mg-deficiency - confirmed with a whole blood Mg-test - didn't show in serum initially. But gave me the worse symptoms of very painful and severe muscle-cramps. Only overcome with almost monthly Mg-sulfate IVs.

However, with a different perspective of not looking only at 'normal' serum ranges, but optimal ranges, then even in the tightly regulated serum also Magesium deficiency was indicated in my case (sodium and potassium to a lesser extent). For example:

Sodium mmol/l: 136 - 145 normal / 142 -145 optimal range
Cacium 2.2 - 2.55 / ~2,4
Potassium 3.5 - 5.1 / 4 - 5
Magnesium 0.66 - 1.07 / > 0,86

Here the optimal serum Mg comes from a observational study, which found a drastic decrease of overall mortality accosiated with serum levels above 0.86 mmol/.. The others by clinical observations of functional medicine practitioners.

Interesting with Mg-sulfate IVs and the ceasing of Mg-deficiency induced muscle-cramps, serum Mg for the first time in a decade droped even below normal ranges. As if the super-abundance of Mg from IVs had signaled my homeostasis system: there is plenty more coming, and no more need to hold on to it that much anymore.

So by considering also optimal serum ranges, if possible also combined with whole blood tests, symptoms and always possible paradoxical reaction over long periods, also serum values can be very indicative.

 

[junkcrap50]

So by considering also optimal serum ranges, if possible also combined with whole blood tests, symptoms and always possible paradoxical reaction over long periods, also serum values can be very indicative.

True. But again, everyone is different and in my case it did very clearly show - by serum calcium showing clearly and consistently for 2 years below normal range. Thererfore in my case it was that severe that homeostasis couldn't reglate it enough anymore. Definite calcium deficiency.

Oh I totally agree. Serum levels should still be investigated and I agree optimal ranges that are tighter than referenc ranges should be used in the right context. If you have low srum levels, then you certainly have some sort of deficiency. I'm just persistently pursing all leads as my muscle pain/mineral needs began immediately and as a consequence of the Fredd Protocol. So I hope to belivee it is a nutritional deficiency of sorts. I wanted to hear more about @drmullin30 's calcium deficiency.

 

[dannybex]

Cooking inactivates oxalates (spinach, turnip greens).

Well, not exactly true. It lowers some, to varying degrees. Plus, there's the endogenous oxalate production that has nothing to do w/dietary sources.

 

[dannybex]

Well I do add a tiny bit of cheese (~2oz/week) and milk (~1 cup/month) occasionally.And I eat a lot of broccoli and spinach. But it's the methylation hit/depletion that I think may have effected my calcium levels. That little bit of dairy and Ca from vegetables may have held calcium levels on a dairy free diet, but it immensly inadequate to recover from methylation refeeding syndrome.

Well this just shows how we're all different and what works for one won't help another or may make them a lot worse. If I go without 2 cups of milk/day for more than 24 hours, I get STRONG, STRONG cramps in my legs, due to calcium deficiency (tetany).

 

[gbells]

I think you're right, in that Japan consumes less red meat than the United States. But, we're a developed nation and we consume considerable amounts of meat. What else are you gonna do with money?

It's not just about red meat. The entire US food supply is contaminated with GMO high glyphosate (Roundup) grains (commercial grains and feedlot nonorganic meat) which cause: fatty liver disease, dysfunctional gut bacteria (raises cytokines) and defective glysine utilization. The data clearly shows that diet makes a difference and I've seen it matter for covid severity in several cases. Go to mercola.com to read about glyphosate.

 

[drmullin30]

Cooking inactivates oxalates (spinach, turnip greens).

@gbells, this isn't correct. You can't "inactivate oxalates". Boiling will pull some oxalates out of the food and into solution in the water but it's only roughly 30 - 50 % reduction in overall oxalate content through boiling only. Frying, grilling or baking won't change the oxalate value.

Try cognitive behavioral therapy for fixable problems

Also many believe CBT doesn't work for mental illness based on CFS see here:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...herapy-cbt-really-work-or-is-it-a-scam.29690/

I did CBT for years and it never helped in any way shape or form.

Also red meat is indispensable to my health. Red meat contains bioavailable omega 3, iron, folate, b12 and many other key nutrients and high quality protien. I agree low quality factory raised beef isn't ideal, but it's a better food staple in my case than most grains or legumes which I can't eat at all and contain an order of magnitude more glyphosate than fresh beef or pork. Obviously, processed red meat is not healthy and I don't eat it but fresh red meat has been a major staple for me for decades and I'm in much much better health now than when I was eating more vegetarian.

 

[drmullin30]

@junkcrap50 my calcium deficiency symptoms include a certain flavor of arrhythmia, anxiety, muscle cramps or spasms and fatigue. See this website for help discerning deficiency and toxicity symptoms: https://acu-cell.com/index.html

Calcium deficiency needs vitamin D (but not too much for high oxalate), vitamin k, magnesium and copper as well. Potassium is also useful.

I believe when I started advanced methylation protocols I also kickstarted oxalate dumping and healing which created a much higher need for calcium. I take between 1500 and 2000 mg of calcium per day but this is starting to diminish as I have added more lithium and as my oxalate dumping starts to level off.

 

[gbells]

@gbells, this isn't correct. You can't "inactivate oxalates". Boiling will pull some oxalates out of the food and into solution in the water but it's only roughly 30 - 50 % reduction in overall oxalate content through boiling only. Frying, grilling or baking won't change the oxalate value.

I've never heard of fried or grilled spinach so it is relevant? A 50% reduction is still very good.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

o red meat is indispensable to my health

Same here, and I wish it was not so. I've tried.

My years as a vegan were very difficult and my health was poor for the duration.

I've been to long retreats with vegetarian outstanding cooks and I can't eat like this.

The blood type diet- something about all that seems to work.

 

[junkcrap50]

@junkcrap50 my calcium deficiency symptoms include a certain flavor of arrhythmia, anxiety, muscle cramps or spasms and fatigue. See this website for help discerning deficiency and toxicity symptoms: https://acu-cell.com/index.html

Calcium deficiency needs vitamin D (but not too much for high oxalate), vitamin k, magnesium and copper as well. Potassium is also useful.

I believe when I started advanced methylation protocols I also kickstarted oxalate dumping and healing which created a much higher need for calcium. I take between 1500 and 2000 mg of calcium per day but this is starting to diminish as I have added more lithium and as my oxalate dumping starts to level off.

Thank you very much for your reply @drmullin30. I was wondering what your symptoms were like like because I had never heard (even after searching) of methylation causing calcium deficiency like it causes many other deficiencies (such as potassium, magnesium, B-vitamins, folate, etc) except for your case.

Acu-cell is a good resource. It is too bad they no longer over their testing service. I'm familiar with the symptoms of calcium deficiency, but it can have a varied presentation. And the same symptoms can also occur with magnesium, potassium, and sodium deficiencies.

My symptoms are limited mainly to the muscles: aching and pain, burning and easily fatigued when moving, locking up into tightness and inflexibility very easily, difficult to relax, knots and very taught thick muscles, some but very few cramps and spasms, huge demand for Mg but I haven't tried Ca yet) Do any of my symptoms or how I put them describe any of your symptoms or experience?

 

[drmullin30]

Hi @junkcrap50 your symptoms actually sound more like copper deficiency or potassium deficiency to me. What you describe is exactly what happens to me when my copper or my potassium drops too low. I also get palpitations as part of my symptomology. As you noted, copper potassium and calcium can present almost identical deficiency symptoms and are dependent on one another where a deficiency in one will lead to a deficiency in the other.

Also, since starting higher dose lithium (5 mg/day), I don't need as much calcium and I also think that oxalate dumping had more to do with my calcium deficiency than anything else.

 

[drmullin30]

A 50% reduction is still very good.

It may be quite good for someone who doesn't have an oxalate issue.

For me, I need to stay to below 50 mg per day to avoid symptoms. Spinach has up to 900 mg of oxalate per 100 g. Boiling that down to 450 mg isn't helpful in any way and doesn't make spinach a viable food, and the same goes for other high oxalate foods. Your comment is not helpful for those of us with hyperoxaluria.

My oxalate symptoms are debilitating and eating spinach, almonds etc. is not an option for me and shouldn't be on the menu for anyone with hyperoxaluria, other oxalate issues or kidney stones.

 

[gbells]

Your comment is not helpful for those of us with hyperoxaluria.

That's true. I read it isn't a common condition (1%).