What happened to my body as a result of taking the C19 Vaccine?

[andyguitar]

BUT one week after the 2nd dose I developed what felt like a really nasty virus, unlike any other I've experienced, major swollen glands, base of throat very sore and tender, abject exhaustion, sleeping all the time

Did anyone suggest you should have got a covid test? Covid can get past one shot of the jab and the one week of your second shot is not enough time to reach maximum protection.

 

[Learner1]

In addition to testing to testing for COVID, You might do quantitative PCR tests for herpes family viruses that you may have had in the past, including shingles, HHV6, Epstein-Barr, cytomegalovirus... My vaccines reactivated my HHV6, which I've been dealing with ever since, and there are many reports of it reactivating shingles. Any of these could lead to increased symptoms including fatigue, swollen lymph nodes, etc.

 

[Guwop2]

I dont know if it's much help, but i came across this article in the New Yorker (from June 22nd) on the Delta variant. In it a leading U.K scientist Muge Cevic is quoted as saying "If our primary object is to reduce hospitilisations and deaths, a first dose still gives very good protection. If it's to stamp out transmission, then the second dose becomes quite important."

https://imgur.com/a/Q4vHrHA

This at least makes me feel less uneasy about not getting the second dose (of course if you can tolerate it, then you should get both doses).

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Just googled and it seems AZ isnt mRNA since it's 'Vector based'. Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA, apparently (google could be wrong of course).

No, that looks correct.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

What treatments did you find personally helpful when you had Covid? Seems like reinfections are still relatively uncommon - sorry to hear you got it twice.

This wasn't a reinfection, there was ample time for it to mutate. I haven't tested, but I believe it was the Delta variant, which has been circulating prolifically here. In April '21 my prefecture had it's 180th confirmed case, now we're at 4,548.

I've been using the same interventions that I take for ME/CFS. Nothing new.

 

[blueberry]

Did anyone suggest you should have got a covid test? Covid can get past one shot of the jab and the one week of your second shot is not enough time to reach maximum protection.

I did test, and it was negative. But it was definitely one to rule out as people can still get covid after a double vaccine, my best friend did.

 

[blueberry]

In addition to testing to testing for COVID, You might do quantitative PCR tests for herpes family viruses that you may have had in the past, including shingles, HHV6, Epstein-Barr, cytomegalovirus... My vaccines reactivated my HHV6, which I've been dealing with ever since, and there are many reports of it reactivating shingles. Any of these could lead to increased symptoms including fatigue, swollen lymph nodes, etc.

I would love to have these tests, but they aren't available to me in the UK. I'm certain that I have old viruses lurking and have tried any antiviral protocols that are available to me, none of which have come from the Drs as they don't /won't prescribe anti virals for ME patients. So I've been using various herbal protocols under the guidance of a qualified medical herbalist, including ku shen (aka sapphora aka oxymatrine). It's like trying to work in the dark with your hands tied!

 

[hapl808]

This wasn't a reinfection, there was ample time for it to mutate. I haven't tested, but I believe it was the Delta variant, which has been circulating prolifically here. In April '21 my prefecture had it's 180th confirmed case, now we're at 4,548.

Wouldn't Delta still count as reinfection? My understanding this is still just a variant with a similar structure (not mutated into a different virus), so initial wild type infections would still provide (some) level of protection? We just don't seem to be sure how much protection since Delta is still somewhat new. That was my understanding at least since there have been many so many variants since the initial wild type version.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Wouldn't Delta still count as reinfection? My understanding this is still just a variant with a similar structure (not mutated into a different virus), so initial wild type infections would still provide (some) level of protection? We just don't seem to be sure how much protection since Delta is still somewhat new. That was my understanding at least since there have been many so many variants since the initial wild type version.

No, when you get a cold (coronavirus), unless your immune system is compromised you don't get sick again with it. My initial stages of severity with ME/CFS involved getting a cold every month and a half.

But next year.

Edit: The initial infection has provided some protection, this round wasn't nearly as severe. The lingering symptoms (Long Covid) are also resolving much sooner.

This virus will ultimately become part of the common cold and we'll all have resistance to it. The road to that's gonna be rocky though.

 

[Learner1]

I would love to have these tests, but they aren't available to me in the UK. I'm certain that I have old viruses lurking and have tried any antiviral protocols that are available to me, none of which have come from the Drs as they don't /won't prescribe anti virals for ME patients. So I've been using various herbal protocols under the guidance of a qualified medical herbalist, including ku shen (aka sapphora aka oxymatrine). It's like trying to work in the dark with your hands tied!

ME/CFS seems to be maybe 25 different things found in different combinations in various ME/CFS patients, according to the research that's been evolving. A big one is viral infections, which are in various states like this:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32327453/

To not test for a known problem is doing patients a disservice. To not treat a problem that is perpetuating a disease is leaving patients sick. I find it hard to believe that a PCR test for various herpes viruses does not exist at all anywhere in the UK. If these exist, who is getting them? What does one have to tell one's doctor? It looks like this test is being sold by a UK company.

https://www.biomerieux.co.uk/product/hhv6-r-gene

Unfortunately, my experience has been that even evidence based natural antivirals have lacked effectiveness against these viruses. I'm now on valganciclovir and famvir to try to beat one back.

Somehow, more advocacy needs to be applied to this issue.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

ME/CFS seems to be maybe 25 different things found in different combinations in various ME/CFS patients, according to the research that's been evolving.

It sounds like you're saying that ME/CFS is just generalized fatigue. I don't believe you think that.

 

[Learner1]

It sounds like you're saying that ME/CFS is just generalized fatigue. I don't believe you think that.

Thank you for offering the opportunity to clarify. What I meant was, from what I have seen the research saying and watching what patients have experienced, these factors are contributing to or driving ME/CFS in various patients, who typically experience a few to many on this list:

1. Viral infections
2. Bacterial infections
3. Fungi and/or mycotoxins
4. Immunodeficiency
5. Autoimmunity
6. Hypercoagulation
7. Mitochondrial dysfunction
8. Nutrient imbalances or deficiencies
9. Hormone imbalances or deficiencies
10. CCI, Chiari, or other spinal issues
11. Microbiome dysruption
12. Oxaluria
13. Heavy metal and/or chemical toxicity
14. Mast Cell triggers
15. Genetic abnormalities
16. Catecholamine imbalances or deficiencies
17. And more ..

Combinations of these lead to more than just plain old fatigue. Yet, they are diagnosable and treatable if one's doctor is curious enough, and the vast majority of patients here suffer from one or more of them.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

This is one of the most frustrating things about this disorder: you can make the right choices with the best available evidence and still end up with the wrong outcome.

Yeah, it's one of it's more annoying little snidely parlor tricks. It often leaves me frozen in place, like a deer in headlights. Which is pretty much where I am with getting the jab.

I feel like such a triffling little weakling, but I worked so hard and so long to get to where I am from where I was that anything that might derail me turns me to indecisive, quivering, jello.

So I applaud your courage, @hapl808 !!!

EDIT .... For usual goofy typos ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

My vaccines reactivated my HHV6, which I've been dealing with ever since, and there are many reports of it reactivating shingles. Any of these could lead to increased symptoms including fatigue, swollen lymph nodes, etc.

Oh total CRAP !!! Bad shingles during chemo, EBV in childhood, HHV6 ..... the full panoply of potential fun.

I feel the jello getting shakier ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I've been using the same interventions that I take for ME/CFS. Nothing new.

I don't think I'm familiar with your specific ME interventions, C. Cat .... when you have a mo and the energy, I'd be truly grateful ...

 

[ljimbo423]

Yeah, it's one of it's more annoying little snidely parlor tricks. It often leaves me frozen in place, like a dee in headlights. Whish is pretty much where I am with getting the jab.

I feel like such a triffling little weakling, but I worked so hard and so long to get to where I am from where I was that anything that might derail me turns me to indecisive, quivering, jello.

I'm right with you Yippee! Even though I'm pretty sure I've had covid twice, a little over 9 months apart and don't want to get it a third time.

I still don't know how I'd react to a vaccine, which leaves me undecided and very nervous about the vaccine. I can't afford to loose any of the gains I've made with this illness over the years!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm pretty sure I've had covid twice,

Only once for me, that was really really early on, so over a year ago, and it was pretty awful, but not sure if the degree of 'awful' confers greater protection down the road. In fact, knowing how life works, I can be pretty sure it don't ...

Life, y'know?

Lemme know how your consideration of this goes as it progresses. I'm really on the horns ...

And a heartfelt "THANK YOU !!!! to @Guwop2 for opening this thread ...

 

[Booble]

I first took the AZ vaccine 4 months ago, and for 3 of those months I was unable to walk for more than 10/20 metres without severly crashing (I could go running 3 times a week prior to the vaccine). There seemed to be no signs of improvement for 3 continuous months, until I saw a chinese herbalist (out of desperation) who managed to aleviate the symptoms by about 75%. I still cannot exercise properly (running/pushups etc), but I have improved - though showing no signs currently of getting that extra 25% back. My question relates to trying to gain clarity on what happened to my body.

People often describe the severity of their reponse to the vaccine - "i had 2 days of fever and was bascically fine afterwards", "didnt feel a thing", "had a few aches but they went away" etc etc. My symptoms were that I had a fever over the first 2 days, during which time my scalp turned bright red, then proceeded to peel over the following week - all relatively 'normal' reponses. After these first few days of fever I felt fine, going about stuff as normal, despite a few low-grade aches and pains. Then just over a week after taking the jab I was out walking around town with a friend and had to sit down (i'd been walking for about 2 hours - relatively normal for me up till then). I took the train home and was in bed for a 2 days, after which I realised I was unable to walk even to take the bins out without getting exhausted (a form of P.E.M totally different from what I had expereince before). I also had developed brain fog, which I had never experienced before, and body aches. These symptoms were not my usual M.E symptoms, although they sound similar when writing them down. They seemed to be operating parallel/seperate to my usual, and main, M.E constitution, which I could descibe as the main operating system for me (as an aside, do people here ever get ill from a flu/cold, and the illness feels like it's happening to an organism seperate from your main M.E infected organism? - like the illness is being run in a sandbox, to use computing terminology? - I do).

To cut a long question short, I seemed to have had 2 responses; one was my immediate reponse (2 days of fever, rash on head, skin peeling), the second kicked in a week later, lasted for 3 months, and is characterised by hyper-sensitive PEM, a recurring ache at the site of the vaccine jab as well as occasional body aches. These symptoms have been reduced by about 75% through some chinese herbs, but still persist (the herbs seemed to have calmed my body down).
Can anyone here tell me what they understand might be the reason behind these long-term effects of taking the vaccine? Why was/is my body struggling so much? Is this a warning sign that my body cannot cope with this particular vaccine (seems so)? Is it an allergy, my immune system going haywire, something else?

Any ideas or thoughts on this issue would be hugely appreciated at this moment when im wondering whether to get the second dose and risk a potentially irreversable 25% lopped off my health chart.

I haven't read the other responses yet but I'll say that very much parallels my experience with bad virus Dec 2019. First I had a bad cold for 3-weeks which while worse than normal -- was still a normal response. Then after I started to turn the corner on the cold, things went from "meh" to worse. Incredible fatigue, complete lack of appetite, weak, weak, weak, and the weirdest kind of over blown anxiety.

My guess is that for some of us, our bodies produce way too much (too many?) cytokines and that is what we are reacting too. It takes a long time for us for those things to clear out.

 

[Booble]

I think it might be that the vaccine caused a big immune response in your body, which caused the microglia (immune cells in your brain) to become more "sensitized" or "primed". Making your ME/CFS symptoms worse.

"Sensitized" or "primed" microglia is what ME/CFS researcher Jarred Younger has found in ME/CFS patients and believes is the cause of symptoms.

The question he's still trying to answer is what's causing the ongoing microglia activation. Because the microglia are sensitized, it doesn't take much to activate them, is what Jarred thinks.

I think it's primarily chronic immune system activation in the body causing activated microlgia. The question that needs to be answered is what is causing this ongoing immune activation in the body, that's activating the microglia, so that it can be treated.

It sounds like the TCM herbs you've been taking have reduced or balanced this immune system activation in your body, to some degree. Therefore reducing microglial activation and your symptoms.

Brilliant. This makes so much sense.

 

[Woof!]

To not test for a known problem is doing patients a disservice. To not treat a problem that is perpetuating a disease is leaving patients sick.

I can't tell you how often I've said this (especially the latter, including on another thread just a half-hour ago). Those who have conversed with me know how interested I am in identifying dietary and environmental triggers (BTW...please take my "What is YOUR trigger?" poll, if you haven't done so already), but identifying and eliminating other things that perpetuate disease - regardless of cause - is vital, too.