What Can I do to tolerate a B Complex? My body loves/hates it

[BlueberryNights]

Problemas dolo cabeza y vit B

Hi everyone! I'm new here.

I have CFS (10 years of this) adrenal fatigue and I suspect I have Hypothiroidism too (I have the symptoms and my mum has CFS+AF+Hasimotos)

The only medicine I take is HC and I'm slowly weaning from it as I don't like it anymore + I want to get tested (adrenals + thyroid) so I need to be off it for that.

I do take a basic multivitamin that helps a bit with things like hair, restes legs and muscle cramps... and from time to time I take 1,000mg vit C, specially when I get "the ill feeling" like a flu camming.

Lately I have been trying to help my adrenals. I read a lot about it and decided to start slow (no cortex, etc) with just supplements to help them get stronger.

For people with AF and low cortisol it is recommended:
- B complex 100 (with normal flic acid + B12. Yes I know! Not so good. But I didn´t know then)
- B5 200
- Vit C 1,000
- Sea salt several times a day (pinch)

So thats is what I toke and I did get:

Good symptoms:
The first week I felt great. I had more energy therefore more desire to do things. I was washing up and instead of getting tired because of standing up I wanted to dance. Wooa!! My hair did improve a lot (I have lost a lot and now is really thin and dry) and the best part is: I coul stand up for longer without feeling the earth gravity wanting to push me down as I always feel (I have orthostatic hypotension - can manage 1h standing up)
oh! and the muscles of my face did improve. Generally my face looks tired, but while on B's it did look better as a few years ago.

Bad symptoms:
The worst was the headache. It was always there and day by day it did get stronger. At first I ignored it as I loved the positive results. But in the end it was unbearable and I had to take daily paracetamols.
I had a pressure on my head especially on my temples. My temples were warm, painfully and pounding.

The muscles on my jaw and neck becamed rigid and stiff.In general my muscles where more stiff.

I did get some pimples or acne or similar in.places I usually dont get. A few in.the.neck. The same type as when I eat something that doesnt agree with me. No.whiteheads or so. Big bumps.

I did get lots or gray hairs, don´t know if because the extra salt or the B's. So like something was aging me quickly.

Also when I went to bed, I felt sometimes my hands getting sleep (numbess I think is the word) I did get that in the past but not since I take a multivitamin. So it was weird to get this symptom back.

And, when I would lye down to sleep I could feel a pounding in my neck and ears. Didn´t like that a bit.

So its like the Bs didnt agree with my body. Like they have created some sort of imbalance. But in the other hand I love how I felt and I need to understand why I felt good and why I can´t tolerate them.

I stoped the new suplements. I still had the bad symptoms.for a few more days.

When I felt better I tryed again but this time at smaller doses:

25mg B complex
1,000mg Vit C
Sea salt

Same story woth weaker symptoms. But in the end I was always with headache and tight muscles. So I stopped again.

The following week I was very ill. Really low temps, weakness, pain all over my body, faint, dizzy, headache that will not go away, did sweet more. My boyfriend told me my pupils were fluctuating like crazy.

I tried to find answer in the adrenal forum I was on. Didn't found it.

I when to a health store and the recommended me Magnesium. I started taking a bit of magnesium.amd felt.a bit better. I added the calcium.+ vit D and felt even better. This has helped me with headache and muscleache but the body is still a bit stiff and I can feel I still have a tiny pressure in temples.

I have stopped the multivitamin bc I need my body to get clean of those B's.

Reading and interesting post on this forum about methil.... I sow my symtoms did happen to people playing with some Bs.

So what Im trying to do is to understand WHY the Bs gave me soo much but my body dont tolerate them. And WHAT can I do to tolerate them.

 

[minkeygirl]

For my AF, my NP has me taking 1/4 tsp Licorice extract in the mornings. She wanted me to take 200 mgs B-5 Pantothenic acid but it amped me up too much. I'm experimenting with a lower dose.

 

[BlueberryNights]

Yes true, licorize is good. I will try it in the summer as my BP drops too much.

How are you doing at a lower dose? Whichs ones where your symptoms at 200mg?

I still want to understand the Bs thing as I belive they can bring me good things. If only I could tolerate them

 

[minkeygirl]

Right now I'm only taking the Licorice Extract Solid. I was feeling really wired so I stopped a lot of things and am stabilizing before I start again.

I'll probably start with 50 mgs of the B-5. I'm not noticing any difference in how I feel right now.

@Martial knows a lot about B's so maybe he can help you.

 

[BlueberryNights]

Thanks thanks thanks!!

 

[caledonia]

What you're doing is manipulating your methylation cycle (whether you realize it or not).

I "had" Hashimoto's and also adrenal fatigue. My thyroid is back 100% with no medication, as documented by labs. My adrenals are also much improved - I don't need supplements for them any more. I haven't had a chance to retest to make concrete documentation though.

The improvements were made by doing methylation treatment.

Check out the various methylation links in my signature, especially Roadblocks to Successful Methylation.

 

[Martial]

Problemas dolo cabeza y vit B

Hi everyone! I'm new here.

I have CFS (10 years of this) adrenal fatigue and I suspect I have Hypothiroidism too (I have the symptoms and my mum has CFS+AF+Hasimotos)

The only medicine I take is HC and I'm slowly weaning from it as I don't like it anymore + I want to get tested (adrenals + thyroid) so I need to be off it for that.

I do take a basic multivitamin that helps a bit with things like hair, restes legs and muscle cramps... and from time to time I take 1,000mg vit C, specially when I get "the ill feeling" like a flu camming.

Lately I have been trying to help my adrenals. I read a lot about it and decided to start slow (no cortex, etc) with just supplements to help them get stronger.

For people with AF and low cortisol it is recommended:
- B complex 100 (with normal flic acid + B12. Yes I know! Not so good. But I didn´t know then)
- B5 200
- Vit C 1,000
- Sea salt several times a day (pinch)

So thats is what I toke and I did get:

Good symptoms:
The first week I felt great. I had more energy therefore more desire to do things. I was washing up and instead of getting tired because of standing up I wanted to dance. Wooa!! My hair did improve a lot (I have lost a lot and now is really thin and dry) and the best part is: I coul stand up for longer without feeling the earth gravity wanting to push me down as I always feel (I have orthostatic hypotension - can manage 1h standing up)
oh! and the muscles of my face did improve. Generally my face looks tired, but while on B's it did look better as a few years ago.

Bad symptoms:
The worst was the headache. It was always there and day by day it did get stronger. At first I ignored it as I loved the positive results. But in the end it was unbearable and I had to take daily paracetamols.
I had a pressure on my head especially on my temples. My temples were warm, painfully and pounding.

The muscles on my jaw and neck becamed rigid and stiff.In general my muscles where more stiff.

I did get some pimples or acne or similar in.places I usually dont get. A few in.the.neck. The same type as when I eat something that doesnt agree with me. No.whiteheads or so. Big bumps.

I did get lots or gray hairs, don´t know if because the extra salt or the B's. So like something was aging me quickly.

Also when I went to bed, I felt sometimes my hands getting sleep (numbess I think is the word) I did get that in the past but not since I take a multivitamin. So it was weird to get this symptom back.

And, when I would lye down to sleep I could feel a pounding in my neck and ears. Didn´t like that a bit.

So its like the Bs didnt agree with my body. Like they have created some sort of imbalance. But in the other hand I love how I felt and I need to understand why I felt good and why I can´t tolerate them.

I stoped the new suplements. I still had the bad symptoms.for a few more days.

When I felt better I tryed again but this time at smaller doses:

25mg B complex
1,000mg Vit C
Sea salt

Same story woth weaker symptoms. But in the end I was always with headache and tight muscles. So I stopped again.

The following week I was very ill. Really low temps, weakness, pain all over my body, faint, dizzy, headache that will not go away, did sweet more. My boyfriend told me my pupils were fluctuating like crazy.

I tried to find answer in the adrenal forum I was on. Didn't found it.

I when to a health store and the recommended me Magnesium. I started taking a bit of magnesium.amd felt.a bit better. I added the calcium.+ vit D and felt even better. This has helped me with headache and muscleache but the body is still a bit stiff and I can feel I still have a tiny pressure in temples.

I have stopped the multivitamin bc I need my body to get clean of those B's.

Reading and interesting post on this forum about methil.... I sow my symtoms did happen to people playing with some Bs.

So what Im trying to do is to understand WHY the Bs gave me soo much but my body dont tolerate them. And WHAT can I do to tolerate them.

We would need a bit more detailed information, what kind of b complex were you taking for one?

It is hard to say from just this information alone as their are many possibilities for your reaction so far.

It could be that you are taking too much b6 and perhaps running a bit of toxicity too, this is important to find out as it would mean you would need to cease all b6 supplementation.

The other b vitamins do not really cause issues in higher doses but generally you never want to go to high on any of them, some are even antagonistic to each other but this should not create problems with a complex version of them.

Are these the activated co enzyme versions of the b's or synthetic?

 

[BlueberryNights]

What you're doing is manipulating your methylation cycle (whether you realize it or not.

That is what I suspect after a few days researching here Caledonia. Thanks for your comment, it is inspiring. I will check your signature.

I'm kind of amazed about how powerfull some "simple" vitamins can do on the body.

I heard many times about Methylation before but I just thought it was something far to complicated as I have so many things to fix. But lately I habe became more and more interested and now I feel it could be an important part to get better.

 

[BlueberryNights]

We would need a bit more detailed information, what kind of b complex were you taking for one?

Are these the activated co enzyme versions of the b's or synthetic?

Hi Martial,

These weeks I have been trying to became a Master on B's without much succes. Like what B vitamins are antagonist to etc. Because as I did a bit better with the magnesium, even better when I added calcium I thought the Bs made my electrolites go crazy. Yesterday after reading the posts I wanted to add a bit.of potassium too just in case. So I had orange juice and a banana. Fruits I neer have lately. The felt good.

Today the only bad symptom left from my B experiment is my muscles are a bit stiff and if I overdo concentrating I get a headache.

The B complex I was taking is:

Vitamin B-100 Complex
Lamberts (yeast and wheat free) Sintetic tablets
There is 100mg of each B, 30g PABA, 100g Inositol, 100mg Choline

They are not sublingual. Someone in the other forum recommended me to try sublinguals as those will not go through the liver. So what I did is to munch the ones I had (dont know if this is silly) ^_^

Also, as I said, in my second B's attempt I had just 1/4 of the tablet so 25 mg from each B. And I did get same symptoms (just in a softer way) and the bad effects did last for longer. A few weeks.

I'm not taking any B now as I want to allow my body to clean. But I'm so up to try something again as what I felt (the good symptoms) while on B's was amazing. My old me is there somewhere.

 

[taniaaust1]

When you say you are on a B Complex.. that doesnt tell us which form of B you are taking. There are several forms of B12 and people may tollerate one form but not another, this is often due to peoples gene mutations eg in my case I have two separate ones which conflict on what kind of B I should take. I need methylB 12 for MTHFR mutation but I have another mutation in which methyl B12 can be an issue.

It can be difficult to get things right when one is taking the typical B complexes most pharmacies have which usually dont have active forms people may need if they have blocks.

 

[BlueberryNights]

Here is the info taniaaus,

*:*Thiamin (Vitamin B1) 100mg, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 100mg, Niacin (as Nicotinamide) 100mg, Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) 100mg, Folic Acid 100µg, Vitamin B12 100µg, Pantothenic Acid 100mg, Choline Bitartrate 100mg, Inositol 100mg, PABA 30mg.

 

[PeterPositive]

Here is the info taniaaus,

*:*Thiamin (Vitamin B1) 100mg, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 100mg, Niacin (as Nicotinamide) 100mg, Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) 100mg, Folic Acid 100µg, Vitamin B12 100µg, Pantothenic Acid 100mg, Choline Bitartrate 100mg, Inositol 100mg, PABA 30mg.

Those seem pretty high doses, especially the B6 @100mg, even though it's an oral supplement and you may just absorb a smaller dose.

I had problems with B complexes for a long time, not being able to even take 1 pill with just the RDA. We're talking about 50 times less the one you're taking.

Several years ago I started using this:
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymate-B-Complex-Orange-Flavored-Sublingual-60-Tablets/1048#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=coenzymated b complex&rc=1210&sr=null&ic=4

Half a tablet under the tongue and slowly building up the tolerance to 1 full tablet, then 1 and 1/2 and finally 2 tablets/day. Took me 6-8 months.

Later I discovered I shouldn't take folic acid, so I switched to other products but that one helped me rebuild the tolerance towards B vitamins. (When I started with it my homocysteine levels where off the scale)

hope it helps

ETA: being sublingual, the absorption bypasses the digestions. That did the trick for me. Especially for B12 which I was absorbing very poorly

 

[BlueberryNights]

PeterPositive (nice name and avatar)

Yes they are hight doses. I was trying to follow some known adrenal protocols.

Before this I used to have 1 multivitamin a day with just 100% RDA. When weaker I would have 2 of those. No side effects on me.

So it's like I had a bit of tolerance. At least with that chemist multivitamin.

I would like to try sublinguals but first I would like to know the quantities based on my side symptoms from B's.

I dont know yet what hurt me. And I prefer to know before I go for the next step.

The lamberts complex has B12 in the form of Cianocobalamin.

 

[Rooney]

Beware of B6 toxicity. My neurologist tested for B6 and it was way too high which does cause neuropathy.

Cause: http://www.naturemade.com/products/b-complex/b-complex-with-c two a day. The extra 10 mg total of B6 with my excellent diet proved too much. I feel lucky he caught it.

 

[BlueberryNights]

@Rooney thanks for the advice.

So... at the moment I know:
1) I should try a sublingual
2) Without B6 or low B6
3)Plus probably folate and some other form of B12 on the Bcomplex.

Or maybe just start with B5 for adrenal.support and forget about the other Bs until I can aford genes test.

 

[PeterPositive]

@Rooney thanks for the advice.

So... at the moment I know:
1) I should try a sublingual
2) Without B6 or low B6
3)Plus probably folate and some other form of B12 on the Bcomplex.

Or maybe just start with B5 for adrenal.support and forget about the other Bs until I can aford genes test.

About B5... I too have low functioning adrenals and have experimented a bit with oral B5.
The product I bought came in 200mg tablets. Having had problems with megadoses I started by cutting it in quarters and it helped a bit. Then increased to 100mg and finally 150mg. At that point I started getting side effects... too much anxiety, in particular. So I kept going with 100mg.

I then spoke with my doc and he confirmed that too high B5 can cause symptoms similar to those I wanted to manage.

 

[whodathunkit]

Another tack you could take is buy individual bottles of the active forms of all the B vitamins that are normally found in a B complex, and take everything separately. My body doesn't like niacin (B3) in any form at all, and I couldn't find a B complex without niacin, so I have to take everything as a separate pill. It's working pretty well so far.

What I take is:

P5P (active form of B6): 50mg/day by Country Life
R5P (active form of B2): 35mg/day by Thorne
Benfotiamin (active form B1): 80mg every other day by Doctor's Best
Pantethine (active form of B5): 250mg every three days by Thorne
Methylfolate (active form of B9): by Solgar (Folate as metafolin)
methylcobalamin (active B12): various doses


I left out my dosage of folate and B12 because they're huge for other reasons and not really relevant to a discussion of balancing B vitamins. But everyone needs them in some amount or other, and above mentioned are the most bioavailable (active) forms.

IMO B6 is crucial but 100mg/day is way too much. Also better if you're taking P5P, the active form.

There *are* decent B complexes out there with all active forms or mostly active forms of the B vitamins. Douglas Labs is one, but there are others. You just have to read the labels carefully to make sure what you're getting. One advantage to a good B complex is that if you think you're getting too much of the B's, you can easily cut the dose of everything in half to experiment with what works best for you.

Good luck!

 

[BlueberryNights]

About B5... I too have low functioning adrenals and have experimented a bit with oral B5.
The product I bought came in 200mg tablets. Having had problems with megadoses I started by cutting it in quarters and it helped a bit.

I bought too a B5 suplement 200mg. First time I tried the Bs I used 1/2 of the B5, so 100mg.

Second time I tried, I didnt used the B5 As the B complex already have B5.

When this didnt work I stopped the B complex and started the B5 in small doses. I divided the tablet in 6-8 pieces, so I was getting 25mg or a bit more. The problem is I still had the bad after effects from the B complex so after several days on B5 with still headaches and the other symptoms... I stopped the B5 just in case it was perpetuating the health problems.

@PeterPositive did you stop doing the B5? Did it help in the long run?

I may try just B5 as what I wanted to do now is support the adrenals while I wean of HC.

The Methialione thing is really interesting and something I will have to work on when Im ready.

 

[BlueberryNights]

Another tack you could take is buy individual bottles of the active forms of all the B vitamins that are normally found in a B complex, and take everything separately. My body doesn't like niacin (B3) in any form at all, and I couldn't find a B complex without niacin, so I have to take everything as a separate pill. It's working pretty well

@whodathunkit thanks for the detailed answer! I like your advice.

All advices given here has been good. Thanks!!

Thats what I said my mum I wanted to do. To buy all the Bs
separatedly. And she was like: are you crazy?? haha

By the way my mum, aunty and sister have all CFS and other things so some bad genes going on.

 

[whodathunkit]

@BlueberryNights: just re-read an earlier post and noticed that you were taking something with cyanocobalamin in it. So just thought I'd mention for you to steer absolutely clear of anything with cyanocobalamin or folic acid in it.

With your family history there's a good chance that cyanocobalamin will be useless, and also that folic acid might actually block the action of any good folate that you take. Some mutations make it impossible for the body to process these two man-made vitamins into their active, bioavailable forms. At worst this inability to process can skew blood tests, at worst they can cause harm by not allowing any active vitamin you do get to work properly. Many people with CFS seem to have the mutations that can't process cyanocobalamin and folic acid, and they don't react well to them at all.

So steer clear of any multivitamin or vitamin complex that has these two substances in it. Your relatives with CFS should stay away from these two substances, as well. Even if you don't have the mutations, there's no harm in only taking the active forms of these vitamins. Well, except maybe to your wallet.