Vit. D causing allergies to flareup

[cristi_b]

thats interesting , how to treat it?
i am not sure but to some flowers i react very harshly allergically. could be tulips.

Done some reading on A. Fumigatus, it seems that treatment options are: itraconazole for most strands and terbinafine which is effective on all strands. Fluconazole is not effective as A. Fumigatus has developed resistance to it.

I would like to know what you found out about your SNPs because my husband has been getting flares of severe respiratory issues from taking vit D (even penumonia) along the past 8 years (I must add he does have liver issues from both specific SNPs and previous infections). He is +/- for 3 vit A SNPs:

BCMO1 rs4889294 CT +/- risk allele C
BCMO1 R267S rs12934922 AT +/- risk allele T
BCMO1 A379V rs7501331 CT risk allele T

I could not find rs7501331 in my Nebula Genomics vcf file, but the other 2 are the same as you presented:

# rsid    chromosome    position    genotype
rs4889294    16    81270154    TC
rs12934922    16    81268089    AT

might need retinol and balance.
vitamin A / D and zink and selen and C work in concert.

I'm still not sure how cofactors would help me since I've already enough active vitamin D. Cofactors only seem to amplify my problems(headaches, sneezing, nose dripping etc). I found a supplement with "retinol acetate", but I'm reluctant to try it as I'm afraid of it will further amplify my allergies. Do you have a good source where I can read up on the link between vitamin D and A ?

Also:
- Buffered Vitamin C, which I've have tried recently, leads to diarrhea in my case
- Zinc has been useful: it helps with the diarrhea and solves pain in my right side of abdomen(don't know if it is related to the liver or something else)
- Selenium leads to headaches now: I am not deficient in Selenium, I have done a related blood test and supplementing with more of it is detrimental in my case

 

[linusbert]

I'm still not sure how cofactors would help me since I've already enough active vitamin D.

yes, but cofactors are not alone to activate something, its also when you got it active that in those pathways its involved which needs cofactors too.
your active vitamin D does something, and there fore it needs something. in end everything is a cofactor for something. thats what makes it so frustrating because literally anything could be missing.
but i guess if they are not helping something else is the problem.

I found a supplement with "retinol acetate", but I'm reluctant to try it as I'm afraid of it will further amplify my allergies.

do they stay worse or do they recover when you stop the trigger. if they revert, try.

Buffered Vitamin C, which I've have tried recently, leads to diarrhea in my case

damn, what did you try?

- Zinc has been useful: it helps with the diarrhea and solves pain in my right side of abdomen(don't know if it is related to the liver or something else)

right side below rip cage can be liver, stomach, guts, pancreas and gall bladder.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Do you have a good source where I can read up on the link between vitamin D and A ?

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...itional-adjuncts-to-the-fat-soluble-vitamins/

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...a-on-trial-does-vitamin-a-cause-osteoporosis/

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/vitamin-a-the-forgotten-bodybuilding-nutrient/

https://www.westonaprice.org/new-ev...ween-vitamins-a-and-d-can-they-cure-diabetes/

https://www.westonaprice.org/new-ev...and-d-protection-against-autoimmune-diseases/

 

[cristi_b]

do they stay worse or do they recover when you stop the trigger. if they revert, try.

They usually subside in a few days, the only one that had a longer lasting effect was the probiotic I mentioned.

damn, what did you try?

I've tried sodium ascorbate. I bought 675mg capsules from which I removed most of the contents: even 100mg was too much for my stomach.

right side below rip cage can be liver, stomach, guts, pancreas and gall bladder.

I have had several eco's on my abdomen and doctors could not find the source of the pain. If I didn't discover Zinc helps with the pain, I would have been a lot more miserable than I am right now. It's small findings like this that give me hope to keep going(I have tried probably more than 100 types of supplements/vitamins and the amount of time and money involved is considerable)

[...]

Thank you for the links. I am considering testing also my Vitamin A status, just to know for sure if this is an issue for me.

 

[linusbert]

I've tried sodium ascorbate. I bought 675mg capsules from which I removed most of the contents: even 100mg was too much for my stomach.

the product i meant.

I have had several eco's on my abdomen and doctors could not find the source of the pain. If I didn't discover Zinc helps with the pain, I would have been a lot more miserable than I am right now.

glad you found something which works for you.

 

[cristi_b]

the product i meant.

The product is called "Parapharm Alkalin C 600", it's marketed as Sodium l-Ascorbate 675mg(of which Ascorbate is 600mg). Other ingredients are: Maltodextrin, Hydroxypropylmethylcellulose, glycerin from vegetable sources, purified water. They say capsules are from vegetable source.

 

[linusbert]

The product is called "Parapharm Alkalin C 600", it's marketed as Sodium l-Ascorbate 675mg(of which Ascorbate is 600mg). Other ingredients are: Maltodextrin, Hydroxypropylmethylcellulose, glycerin from vegetable sources, purified water. They say capsules are from vegetable source.

the ingredients read like garbage, i get diarrhea from glycerin. also maltodextrin is known to cause gastro intestinal problems for sensitive people. my guess, 99% you are reacting to those and not the C.
also why is even water in it... makes no sense for me.

just get plain sodium ascorbate powder, like this https://www.iherb.com/pr/nutribiotic-immunity-sodium-ascorbate-crystalline-powder-8-oz-227-g/70643 (thats the one i tolerate)

pick it out with something non metallic like a plastic spoon which isnt statically charged and put right into your mouth, let it solve with your saliva and gulp down. should taste like sodium and a little bitter, but not metallic. if it tastes metallic its probably oxidized.

 

[Violeta]

@cristi_b, Vitamin K2 might help you be able to tolerate Vitamin D. Also, K2 can stop mast cell activation,(allergic reaction), similar to the way quercetin stops it... by stopping the entry of Ca+ into the cell. You would probably need a good size dose at first.

I actually think the link that Marshall missed was K2.

 

[cristi_b]

Vitamin K2 might help you be able to tolerate Vitamin D. Also, K2 can stop mast cell activation,(allergic reaction)

Meanwhile I've discovered I have several mutations that affect blood coagulation and developed venous insufficiency in the left leg, so I do not want to experiment with vitamin K. Also, as mentioned in previous message, vitamin K makes my allergies worse.

maltodextrin is known to cause gastro intestinal problems for sensitive people. my guess, 99% you are reacting to those and not the C.

I have taken supplements with maltodextrin before without any problems. Recently I found out that some pathogens in the gut interact with vitamin C, I suspect that's why I can't tolerate it. In fact that is my current theory: after trying a bunch more supplements and doing some more blood tests I'm left with the idea that there is something in my gut. It is possible that my bad reaction to vitamin D(which boosts immunity) and the HN019 probiotic(which boosts immunity) was just a Herxheimer reaction: my allergies getting worse because of endotoxins released when microbes are destroyed.

I will write a longer post once all results come in from the blood tests I requested.

 

[Violeta]

Meanwhile I've discovered I have several mutations that affect blood coagulation and developed venous insufficiency in the left leg, so I do not want to experiment with vitamin K. Also, as mentioned in previous message, vitamin K makes my allergies worse.


I have taken supplements with maltodextrin before without any problems. Recently I found out that some pathogens in the gut interact with vitamin C, I suspect that's why I can't tolerate it. In fact that is my current theory: after trying a bunch more supplements and doing some more blood tests I'm left with the idea that there is something in my gut. It is possible that my bad reaction to vitamin D(which boosts immunity) and the HN019 probiotic(which boosts immunity) was just a Herxheimer reaction: my allergies getting worse because of endotoxins released when microbes are destroyed.

I will write a longer post once all results come in from the blood tests I requested.

It's true that Vitamin K can affect blood coagulation negatively, but Vitamin K2 does exactly the opposite.

Yeah, if you ever try K2 again, don't get the kind made from soy beans.

 

[Gondwanaland]

was just a Herxheimer reaction: my allergies getting worse because of endotoxins released when microbes are destroyed.

I have had this before, probably extra production of acetaldehyde and release of toxins from die-off, it was easily improved with a low dose B complex.

 

[linusbert]

I have taken supplements with maltodextrin before without any problems. Recently I found out that some pathogens in the gut interact with vitamin C, I suspect that's why I can't tolerate it. In fact that is my current theory: after trying a bunch more supplements and doing some more blood tests I'm left with the idea that there is something in my gut. It is possible that my bad reaction to vitamin D(which boosts immunity) and the HN019 probiotic(which boosts immunity) was just a Herxheimer reaction: my allergies getting worse because of endotoxins released when microbes are destroyed.

if that is the case, get IV or SC injections and see how that goes.

i never got any bad reaction from any natural high vitamin containing food. if your argument stays true, it must apply mostly to synthetic vitamins.

It's true that Vitamin K can affect blood coagulation negatively,

never heard of that one.
vitamin K is required for coagulation, if there is a lack of it, there will be bleeding. thats how rat poison works.
but having enough of it will not lead to hypercoagulation. enough means there will not be a bleeding issue.
BUT in case someone is taking the rat poison to keep his blood "thin" for therapeutic reasons, he might impair that therapy and risk to get blood clots again.
but there are modern medications which do this without working on the vitamin K metabolism. ask your MD about this.
vitamin k2 can be converted back to k1 , its not much but it can do so and it might be enough to impair the rat poison therapy, so careful about that
NOTE: never take "rat poison" without consulting your MD. i write rat pison because i forgot the name of the medication which does this, but its chemically the same as the rat poison.

 

[cristi_b]

I have received all the results to all the blood tests I requested, unfortunately on at least one of them I have observed how the nurse did not follow procedure correctly when drawing the blood and I have little confidence in the result: it was the retinol test, which I did because there were a few posts here suggesting vitamin A. The retinol result turned out to be in normal range(a bit on the lower side).

Ideally I should have tested everything twice: first test for "before" values, than try to fix them and then the "after" values to see how much I managed to improve. Unfortunately from lack of money I've skipped the "before" values and jumped directly to trying to improve them and then test for "after" values . The good news I feel a little better now, my allergies have gone down and I can tolerate vitamin D better:
- I can go out in the sun without muscle cramps/twitches, no heart arrhythmia, no headaches and only slightly stuffy nose etc
- tried this morning the same 4000 UI supplement that caused huge problems in the past and got just a slight head ache but no dizziness, no blood pressure changes, no faint feeling, no sneezing yet and also can stand chemical smells today so there doesn't seem to be a lot of histamine release(as in the past)

Off course I'm not 100% normal but at least now and I can go outside without huge problems. There is also some bad news, while improving my vitamin D tolerance I seem to made my memory/cognitive problems worse. I did not realize how dangerous killing pathogens in the gut can be: they release a lot of endotoxins than can damage the neurons. The big culprit here, as far as I've read, is Lipopolysaccharides (LPS) which can seriously damage the neurons and can even trigger Alzheimer's Disease in animal models. Now, unfortunatly, I have a lot of cognitive-imparement symptoms which I hope are temporary: frequently forgetting what I have just done(I have to keep todo lists), have trouble doing math in my head, long term memory problems have expanded from names of people to language/words, executive function issues -> can't organize complex tasks in subtasks I seem absent minded all the time, I have trouble with old habbits/routines doing subtasks in wrong order or skipping some of them, I get confused in new places and for some reason shadows of large objects confuse me I can't tell which way is the sun, plus lots of others that are beyond the scope of this topic. If there is any advice I can give someone reading this is: do not try to kill bacteria in the gut until you ensure you are protecting the brain from LPS !!!

If anyone is interested here are the results of my latest blood work("after" values):
1) ALEX - Allergy Explorer: all ~300 IgE tests are NEGATIVE, no antibodies to anything including no Aspergillus Fumigates antibodies which is the pathogen I talked about as a possibility for my lungs;
2) DAO activity: now is BORDERLINE meaning almost normal(13.6 UI/mL, normal values are above 14 UI/mL); as mentioned in a previous post I have a genetic defect that causes low DAO but I've done several steps to improve DAO activity(see below)
3) Interleukin 6 (IL-6): now is < 1,50 pg/mL (lab reports values under 7,00pg/mL are normal); this is not clear if it ever was a problem, as I have only "after" value; also I should have done TNF-alpha but I did not realize the lab offered such a test
4) Retinol(active vitamin A): result is 0,34 mg/L (normal range 0,30mg/L - 0,70mg/L). I have huge doubts about this result as the nurse used an orange tube instead of the purple/EDTA tube covered in foil(retinol is a chromatography test)
5) Triptase: result is now 3,54 μg/L (normal for the lab is under 11,00), no indication of MCAS/Mastocytosis at the moment
6) IgG Ab Aspergillus panel 1: negative result for 4 of the most common Aspergillus; consequently I still don't know why I have the spots on my lungs, maybe they are scars from some condition when I was a kid
7) TMAO: result is 110,2 ug/l (normal for the lab is under 380), I expected this to be higher as I still have some bloating/gas that seems to be triggered by choline/carnitine containing foods so my confidence in this result is low.

The steps I did to improve are(I may never know which ones were the most effective):
- changed toothpaste and got one without fluoride or mint: fluoride is mentioned as causing issues to people with genetic DAO defects
- a course of DAOSiN: DAO enzyme extracted from pig kidney to help process Histamine in the gut
- L. Plantarum probiotic: has DAO enzyme and can help with Histamine
- ate integral brown rice as sidedish: to improve microbiome, contains Ferulic Acid
- multi-dose Quercetin(every 6h): alternative to Olmesartan
- L. Rhamnosus probiotic: kills several pathogens in the gut
- 10grams of chocolate with 85% cocoa at each meal: changes in microbiome, F/B ratio, improves mood
- microdosing with HN019 probiotic: kills pathogens in the gut, had to microdose because it was too powerfull for me, I took small child dose
- Balsamic vinegar: to lower TMA & TMAO

I tryed to give an explanation to each one, if anyone is interested I can give more details, but this is already a long post.

 

[Dysfunkion]

I wonder if vitamin A will help me tolerate D3 better too, I just learned about how they work together and I am getting very little of it. I actually just odered a 80% daily value supplement of it myself to see how I react to it. If that goes well I'll try a small amount of D3 and see if I actually get more energy from it consistently under vitamin A if that goes anywhere at all. I'll also report back on how that goes.

 

[cristi_b]

@Dysfunkion: what kind of symptoms do you have when you take D3? In my case I am 90% sure it was a Herxheimer reaction, my body reacting to pathogens being killed, in fact I believe that most of my symptoms were created by LPS, as this LPS can stimulate mast cells to release Histamine and change DAO activity (which is supposed to metabolize the histamine). It's a pity I can't tell exactly which bacteria caused the LPS(nor could I find a laboratory to test such a blood marker), I only have clues and have to take guesses based on the few blood tests I've done: it's ODC positive, lactate producer, urease positive. I could also be that there were/are two or more species that work together to make me sick. Maybe @LINE has more of an idea about what it was(and probably still is lurking around, hoping to come back) as he had a suggestion some time ago:

(suspect dysbiosis in the gut - I can give you more information on this if you like. This likely is the root of the issues)
[...]
I think this indicates that an infection is present and likely a good place to look is in the gut.

 

[Dysfunkion]

@Dysfunkion: what kind of symptoms do you have when you take D3? In my case I am 90% sure it was a Herxheimer reaction, my body reacting to pathogens being killed, in fact I believe that most of my symptoms were created by LPS, as this LPS can stimulate mast cells to release Histamine and change DAO activity (which is supposed to metabolize the histamine). It's a pity I can't tell exactly which bacteria caused the LPS(nor could I find a laboratory to test such a blood marker), I only have clues and have to take guesses based on the few blood tests I've done: it's ODC positive, lactate producer, urease positive. I could also be that there were/are two or more species that work together to make me sick. Maybe @LINE has more of an idea about what it was(and probably still is lurking around, hoping to come back) as he had a suggestion some time ago:

Basically fro my first dose I got what felt like an crazy out of control immune reaction BUT it seemed to turn everything in my body back on for a day after that does practically cured all of my fatigue but I felt extremely wired. It felt like how I should feel if I had a large dose of a stimulant and was healthy with an extra immune kick. I was previously unable to have a trembling reaction to anything but that brought it back whatever that means for a couple days. After that it failed to do so at any dose and made me more functional socially and in specific areas mentally but I was extremely fatigued physically and my senses weren't feeling as sharp and reactive anymore. Would also feel like I was on the edge of a migraine all day with migraine symptoms like a lack of wording finding ability but my pronounciation of everything and actual social ability got vastly more natural. This would then repeatedly happen at any dose of D3. I had to stop because I just couldn't handle how heavy everything felt anymore.

 

[cristi_b]

Basically fro my first dose I got what felt like an crazy out of control immune reaction BUT it seemed to turn everything in my body back on for a day after that does practically cured all of my fatigue but I felt extremely wired. It felt like how I should feel if I had a large dose of a stimulant

This feeling of "stimulant" and "extremely wired" seems to me like a sympathetic activation. I have seen this before in someone else: reaction to an allergen(like a chemical smell) was not sneezing or coughing or any typical histamine manifestation you would know but sympathetic activation and actually an extreme one at that, with irritability and even yelling. I was baffled by this reaction, as I didn't understand it, I still don't completely, best I can guess is: excess histamine can have weird effects on the brain especially if enzymes like HNMT and MAO are not working properly to get rid of the excess from the central nervous system.

I wonder if vitamin A will help me tolerate D3 better too, [,..] I'll also report back on how that goes.

Please do share the results when you can.
My guess it will amplify your sympathetic activation because it will put more histamine in your system. Don't overdoit though, as it might create problems on the HNMT and MAO enzymes (If that happens you can take some DAO enzyme supplement to degrade the histamine)

 

[linusbert]

so i do not tolerate D anymore seamingly, i dont get anything from it, except weaker legs, which is a problem. it seams it drains my leg muscles now.
could also be due to increased metabolism or increased detoxification of my pioglitazone diabetes drug which makes my muscles much better. if i take less pioglitazone i get the same effect as taking vitamin d.

I still don't know why I have the spots on my lungs, maybe they are scars from some condition when I was a kid

Sarcoidosis maybe?

 

[Dysfunkion]

This feeling of "stimulant" and "extremely wired" seems to me like a sympathetic activation. I have seen this before in someone else: reaction to an allergen(like a chemical smell) was not sneezing or coughing or any typical histamine manifestation you would know but sympathetic activation and actually an extreme one at that, with irritability and even yelling. I was baffled by this reaction, as I didn't understand it, I still don't completely, best I can guess is: excess histamine can have weird effects on the brain especially if enzymes like HNMT and MAO are not working properly to get rid of the excess from the central nervous system.


Please do share the results when you can.
My guess it will amplify your sympathetic activation because it will put more histamine in your system. Don't overdoit though, as it might create problems on the HNMT and MAO enzymes (If that happens you can take some DAO enzyme supplement to degrade the histamine)

I know much later was really burny so I know histamine was definitely involved but normally I'm not sure if I have a histamine problem based on the fact that I can usually eat high histamine foods without issues. I've actually for the past months been trying to decipher what is going on in my immune system by feeling my way around, I now have a clearer picture of what is going on in my body but aren't 100 percent sure. Based on my recent experiences with this and my currently still dealing with thiamine blunder (you can read about this one in my last post) it appears I have some consistent PEM thing going on that is tied to my immune system primarily followed by its interactions with my nervous system and it's always heavily tied to my circadian rhythm which implies whatever it is, is stuck in a loop. Since even later 10,000 iu of D3 at a time wasn't able to produce anything like the first dose of 5000 iu, there was some mechanic at play that through an immune based mechanism was able to override whatever was being capped but then something got sensitized in just a small amount of doses and suddenly the only thing at best D3 did besides make me feel like I was about to have a migraine was a significant improvement in my baseline mood, social ability, and inflammation in general in specific areas whatever those were likely. I'm already taking K2 at 100 mcg and it's currently something I can't live without.

Does vitamin A increase the histamine load? Can't find anything on that myself. I've been thinking about keeping DAO on hand for emergency immune implosion situations, which one do you recommend? My emergency kit when I'm experimenting like this is usually cistus (but only past 5 PM because of my circadian immune loop thing I have going on), green tea after, and then I mop everything up with activated charcoal (I exclude this in the daily rotation, I only use it for reactions, whatever is happening there it's able to really reduce the anxiety and tinnitus ridden brain burner reactions in a couple doses by a great enough amount to bring my back to baseline fast enough).

 

[cristi_b]

so i do not tolerate D anymore seamingly, i dont get anything from it, except weaker legs,

I know I read somewhere that some diabetes medication affect DAO enzyme, but I don't think it was pioglitazone. Are there any changes to your allergies when you get weaker legs? If your allergies remain the same, it could also be a neurologic issue. Perplexity AI says "the enzymes involved in vitamin D metabolism are distinct from those involved in the metabolism of pioglitazone, which is primarily metabolized by CYP2C8 and CYP3A4", so there doesn't seem to be a direct link between vitamin D and pioglitazone.
I remember that when I got headaches from vit.D, just immediatly before, I would feel a weakness in the back of my head, basically a weakness of the muscles that support the head, something like a feeling of fainting but only localized to that area. This got me thinking now that maybe it's an activation of the dorsal vagal component of the vagus nerve(P.N.S.), so I've asked perplexityAI if vitamin D has any affect on the vagus nerve and voila: "Yes, vitamin D has been shown to affect the vagus nerve. Vitamin D receptors are present in the vagus nerve". It seems that vitamin D affects the parasympathetic nervous system(P.N.S.), it could be that your legs weakness, that seemed to me like a dorsal vagal response, could be the start of a fainting reflex. If it goes any further you might actually feel a drop in blood pressure and eventually fall down and loose consciousness. Some months ago when I stuburnly took vitamin D in spite of the bad reactions, I actually felt the severe drop in blood pressure 2 times while sitting at my desk, luckily I did not loose consciousness, but I think I was pretty close.

Sarcoidosis maybe?

It's a possibility, but I don't know how to test for that. Since improving my vitamin D tolerance and the fact that the lungs don't bother me, I thought I'd leave it be for now. I have too many issues to deal with anyway.