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Vagus nerve stimulation - Nurosym device

Bergkamp

Senior Member
Messages
145
Hi all,

About 4 weeks ago I’ve had a mega crash due to accidentally taking 2 dexamethasone (see this thread: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/accidentally-took-dexamethasone-need-help.87884/ ) Went from moderate to (very) severe in one hit - still hoping I can bounce back relatively quickly from this.

My main issue right now is that the corticosteroid in the dexamethasone put my ANS in a hyperactive and hyperaroused state and it just won’t calm down. I’ve tried a lot of techniques like meditation and humming and deep breathing and it does calm down but usually during the night I get adrenaline rushes again. It’s driving me crazy and hindering my recovery.

I’ve been looking into vagus nerve stimulation as a way to calm down my ANS and came across this device: www.nurosym.com. It’s scientifically tested and marketed for ME/CFS and long covid. It shows pretty good results for long covid so I’m interested. Some of you will say it’s too expensive and that’s probably right but money is not an issue for me. Does anyone of you have any experience with this device or similar devices maybe? Any other thoughts on the device? @vision blue i remember you mentioning something like this a while ago?
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
1,877
Hi - yes, I mentioned in that thread that one of the ways to try to calm down the SNS is by vagal nerve stimulatin. As Imentioned, vagal nerve stimulation activates the parasympathetic nervous system and since often when one is up and the other is down, it can help with the SNS. Glad to see by the way that the other suggestions I had helped you to some extent at least.

As for that model, I'm not familiar with it. I"m sure if they are trying to market it for long covid and cfs then they are changing a preimium just for that. Someone on another thread had suggested one that was only about 120 pounds; hopefully they will chime in and repost that link. But if money is no object, then maybe that doens't matter.

only thing i can think of in evaluating different models is that there are different routes to getting to the vagus nerve. some like the ear, others the upper chest, so there's differences in how you attach them. thre's also diffrence i think in portability. i'm guessing your biggest use will be at night before sleep. Anyway, be aware of how they make contact with skin and where and pick sometihng that you think how you'd like it to activate..

for a while i was going to build one froma tens unit but theyve come down in price enough I don't need to do that.

another thing in models is you dont' want to pick one that is subscription based. so if one goes into the route of getting a doc script, then its these awful models whwere each doc refill gives you a certain amount of time and then the uints shut off! Absurd. but i assume most direct to consumer models don't have that - for now anyway. sio makes sense to jump on one now before more places decide they can gouge people by using a subscription model.

let us know which you get and maybe blog on your progress- day1 i did such and such.

glad you are improving! And glad our suggestions helped at least a little bit.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,052
Has anyone had significant results with vagus nerve stimulation and what kind of results? I did it years ago with a device when I was more moderate and not sure if any results. That was a long time ago, though. Now that I'm a bit more severe, I've only tried various vagus stimulating breathing exercises, etc.
 

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,147
I have tried with a basic device the ear stimulation route and all the way down the spine and I found no benefits from either. I find tens to be useful for certain types of back pain but otherwise its not proved otherwise useful. Maybe precisely matching the frequency et el is vital and I can't do that on my machineas I can only select programmes and I get as close as that will let me. Maybe that is why it has never worked for me, in which case you need to spend real money on one of the much more capable machines which are 5x the price.
 

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,147
Which ones do you mean if I may ask?

A unit actually made by TENS, so something like a Tens 7000 will do the job. Intensity also do one I believe as do Med-Fit. There is also the EV-906A. The main thing is you need to be able to set directly the pulse width and frequency alongside current. If the device shows a bunch of programmes its the same problem I have with my Auvon and it wont have the one you need for this purpose.

You need a machine capable of setting 20-30Hz with a pulse width of 200 microseconds from what I have seen in the literature on this for vagus nerve stimulation. In terms of current I think its 1ma to about 6ma is tolerable.

You also need some vagus nerve ear clips.
 

Bergkamp

Senior Member
Messages
145
A unit actually made by TENS, so something like a Tens 7000 will do the job. Intensity also do one I believe as do Med-Fit. There is also the EV-906A. The main thing is you need to be able to set directly the pulse width and frequency alongside current. If the device shows a bunch of programmes its the same problem I have with my Auvon and it wont have the one you need for this purpose.

You need a machine capable of setting 20-30Hz with a pulse width of 200 microseconds from what I have seen in the literature on this for vagus nerve stimulation. In terms of current I think its 1ma to about 6ma is tolerable.

You also need some vagus nerve ear clips.

Thank you so much for the info. I ordered the TENS 7000 and ear clips today. Curious to see what it’ll do!
 

minimus

Senior Member
Messages
140
Location
New York, NY
After reading a post on the healthrising forum by someone with ME who said the Parasym device helped her, about four years ago I bought a previous version of their vagus nerve stimulator, which was a bit clunky and less sleek than the current version. FYI, last time I checked Parasym does not ship to the US.

I only used it once and got such a severe headache right after that I never used it again. And at this point I am so severe that the Parasym seems equivalent to trying to fight Godzilla with a bb gun. But I might try it again.

I looked at the research section of the Parasym website, which seems to cite studies that are either ongoing/incomplete or that looked at the effects of general vagus nerve stimulation on various health conditions. Does any of it actually involve this company’s device? If not, there may be much cheaper ways to experiment with vagus nerve stimulation than shelling out £599.
 

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,768
Location
Norway
I just bought a device a bit cheaper
It’s made for CES- cranial electro therapy stimulation
but can be used for vagus nerve stimulation as well


https://www.euronlabs.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2r6Qn-Ou_QIVjNeyCh2UNAXEEAAYASAAEgJ6yfD_BwE

Its far too early to tell if it helps me yet.
I started out yesterday.
I hadn’t planned to post anything for at least a week or two.

I’ll take some screenshots to explain why I bought this one.

(But: if you already have a device and it gave you a headache,
the user manual on my device instruct to start on the lowest level, for maximum 15 min twice a day, in the beginning.
If that is too much as well, you can for down to 5 minutes, twice a day.)

(Edit
Oh, the prices seems to be in Norwegian kroner only:wide-eyed: )
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,913
Hello @Bergkamp......I have tried acupressure to help with the vagal nerve. There is a method which does not involve the ear....and it's online. (I'm not being difficult, just can't remember everything).

It seems to me it involved holding the base of the skull in both hands. I can remember using it a few times, it seemed to help and apart from a nagging headache behind my l. eye, things have improved.

If you want to try something immediately, please look up "vagal nerve stimulation & acupressure). Lenora
 

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,768
Location
Norway
Background:
I’m member of a Facebook group for me- folks using a heart monitor device,
sharing tips and tricks on how to pace yourself.

Most members have some kind of garmin watch with something called body battery.
Body battery is a combination of heart rate and heart rate variability,
visualised with a graph to make more sense.

When you learn how to read it, it helps you to see how your body is doing,
what to avoid, and if you are really resting when you think you are resting.
This way, you will get instant feedback on whether your pacing technique works or not.

Blue colour means rest. The higher the orange gets, the more stress.
Are you following so far?
Good:thumbsup:
 

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,768
Location
Norway
Next chapter:
A woman in this group had bought one of those devices.
This is what her day’s originally looked like:
89EDA913-6492-4596-B44F-546B3821D696.png

This is not good.
The stress in her body is very high, and she hardly gets any rest at night.
But this is not unusual among me-folks.
(Even healthy people can have stress like this after a hard party with plenty of alcohol, or other stressors.
This is not at all healthy for anyone in the long run, and a me body in particular needs to get the stress down)

She then bought the device I mentioned in my earlier post,
and this is what her days and nights have been like ever since
8D0EC612-5BF3-4FB8-AF32-E5204F8C1E9A.png
 
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Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,768
Location
Norway
Another man has just started, he hasn’t been posting as much, but he says he’s happy enough to continue the treatment
But he posted this when we asked him:
Average night:
320747AD-FE6A-4909-A125-1F31F7D2E702.jpeg


The first night after he got his device: (the lower the blue, the better the rest)
C5E5CB51-464C-4B24-96A0-BB3599C9B74F.jpeg
 
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Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,768
Location
Norway
But it’s early days.
I guess in a month or so we’ll know better.
I got good results the first night myself, but there might be other reasons for that, so I’ll wait some more before I conclude with anything.

BUT:
The women with the first reading don’t feel any better yet
(She’s been going on for 11 days I think)
What We DO know from others in the group, is that it seems people are able to get a better functioning after months and months with lowering their stressors in different ways.
It’s only because of those watches, the stress monitors, we can read the immediate effect of something on the body.
And of course the results (if it keeps up this way) make you keep on trying.
Or make you give up something that’s helpful for others, because the same stuff might stress you.

Most likely you won’t FEEL better for a long time.

What else?
If you use it too much, it can be stimulating instead of calming.
Start slow and run like a turtle.

Don’t use mobile while your wired
Remove earlobes
Don’t use closer than 3 hours before bedtime
Keep at least 5 hours between two sessions.

I suppose different devices have different rules,
but I suppose those rules will apply to them all?
Or maybe even more strict?

Read the manual before use :rofl:
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,913
Sensible advice, Hufsamor. I'm glad that you're doing better and hope it continues. How long did it take you to reach your possible state? Yours, Lenora
 

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,768
Location
Norway
Sensible advice, Hufsamor. I'm glad that you're doing better and hope it continues. How long did it take you to reach your possible state? Yours, Lenora

Hi leonora!
I’m not quite sure I understand your question?
But both those others had instant help regarding their sleeping issues.
Like the first day they used it.

The device have different modes that are supposed to be helpful for anxiety/ depression and pain as well. But the manufacturer writes that for those problems you might need a months use before you find any relief.

Does it help me?
I don’t know…
The two first nights I had sleeping quality similar to my best nights.
This night, the third, is not a good night when it comes to sleeping.
But no matter what I’ll keep on trying for at least a month.
I have a months sleeping pattern (without the device)already measured by my watch.
So if I now try a month with the device, I’ll be able to compare.

what I do know is that the woman had instant and very noticeable help.
And it continues helping night after night.
And I do know already, that it’s not as helpful for me as it is for her.
(I wasn’t expecting it to be, there are more ideas I’m trying to calm down the stress in the body, cold water being on of them. Like cold water on you feet or as a shower or in your face. For some people it’s really helpful to calm down the stress in their body. And it helps me as well, most of the time, but not always. And not to the same extent. And that is more or less the same I hope for from this device, that it will be somewhat helpful)
 
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Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,334
Location
Southern California
Most members have some kind of garmin watch with something called body battery.
Body battery is a combination of heart rate and heart rate variability,
visualised with a graph to make more sense.

When you learn how to read it, it helps you to see how your body is doing,
what to avoid, and if you are really resting when you think you are resting.
This way, you will get instant feedback on whether your pacing technique works or not.
I know someone who has a Vivosmart 4 with the body battery, and she likes it very much. It helps her a lot with pacing. I'd thought of getting one and then forgot about it! (no surprise :wide-eyed: ) Anyways, thanks for posting about this, I will think about it again . . .