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@mario Stephanie's seneff made the connection in that paper I sent u ..pirphyrins maybe?
Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS
- Thread starter mariovitali
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@aquariusgirl could I possibly get a copy of this paper?
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@aquariusgirl
Manganese could be an important factor (and Thank you for pointing this paper out) but the more i look into this, i more realize that we have to see this problem in a more Holistic way :
-Liver
-Bile Acids Homeostasis
-Mitochondria (perhaps NDUFS7)
-NR3C1
-Acetylation
-Methylation
-Manganese Levels
-Iron Levels
-Reasons for FXR/PXR dysregulation
...
...
IMHO We have to look at all of these Factors and take care of them one by one.
Manganese could be an important factor (and Thank you for pointing this paper out) but the more i look into this, i more realize that we have to see this problem in a more Holistic way :
-Liver
-Bile Acids Homeostasis
-Mitochondria (perhaps NDUFS7)
-NR3C1
-Acetylation
-Methylation
-Manganese Levels
-Iron Levels
-Reasons for FXR/PXR dysregulation
...
...
IMHO We have to look at all of these Factors and take care of them one by one.
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Yes .. I think the title of the paper is misleading . She talks about how heme dependent enzymes aren't working because of lack of heme & on & on
But Dr Shade says you have to shut down inflammation before you can detox & that feels right to me.
So you need Mn dependent SOD to work & you need. zinc & copper dependent SOD to work also .
Getting Zinc & Cu SOD working was crucial for me.
Also all the things you have brought up are pertinent for me ...dysfunctional iron & Cu metabolism. Lack of bile .. Misfolded proteins etc
But Dr Shade says you have to shut down inflammation before you can detox & that feels right to me.
So you need Mn dependent SOD to work & you need. zinc & copper dependent SOD to work also .
Getting Zinc & Cu SOD working was crucial for me.
Also all the things you have brought up are pertinent for me ...dysfunctional iron & Cu metabolism. Lack of bile .. Misfolded proteins etc
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@aquariusgirl
I think that our problem originates from Dysregulated Bile Acid intrahepatic circulation. Then it's all downhill from there, all systems are simply failing one-by-one : Acetylation, Phosporylation, Methylation, HPA Dysregulation,impaired Steroid and Neuro-steroid metabolism and Oxidative Stress, ...the icing on the cake is Liver and Mitochondrial Disease.
Uncontrolled Inflammation originates from impaired Liver function (my hypothesis)
I think that our problem originates from Dysregulated Bile Acid intrahepatic circulation. Then it's all downhill from there, all systems are simply failing one-by-one : Acetylation, Phosporylation, Methylation, HPA Dysregulation,impaired Steroid and Neuro-steroid metabolism and Oxidative Stress, ...the icing on the cake is Liver and Mitochondrial Disease.
Uncontrolled Inflammation originates from impaired Liver function (my hypothesis)
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@aquariusgirl I also agree with @mariovitali however I will say that I believe manganese in the scheme of most talked about minerals is probably one of the more slept on minerals. I believe unbound iron and high levels of iron storage in soft tissues greatly antagonizes manganese in the system. Treating with a single mineral like manganese while the other systems Mario has pointed out are off balance you will ultimately setup a domino effect with other minerals and their co factors. I have seen this many times.
@aquariusgirl I believe the foundation of this dysfunction is involved with copper/iron dysregulation. Its a bit complicated to convey over a message board but that will set the stage for these downstream effects. Mario believes there is an insult to the liver that damages it and set forth a dysfunction. I (at the moment) believe this is due to hepatic iron overload, this has yet to be substantiated.
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Yes well iron & copper dysfunction will
Mess up your mito function fast.,,
They are chelating the iron out of the brains of Parkinsins patients & they have identified excess iron in brains of Alzheimers patients.
UCL London /UCLA
Also hyperoxoluria will take down sulfation ..so that as an impact on phase 2 liver enzymes
Mess up your mito function fast.,,
They are chelating the iron out of the brains of Parkinsins patients & they have identified excess iron in brains of Alzheimers patients.
UCL London /UCLA
Also hyperoxoluria will take down sulfation ..so that as an impact on phase 2 liver enzymes
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@Bdeep86 :what's the treatment? What are u doing ?
Drug companies are developing a bunch of new iron chelators fyi
Drug companies are developing a bunch of new iron chelators fyi
Yes your right on all of this @aquariusgirl you not only have copper not reaching cytochrome C oxidase, but you also have unbound iron inhibiting it as well.
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@Bdeep86
Based on your Theory, what kind of test results on Iron and Copper should we expect to see (ie High Iron Levels, Low Copper etc)
Based on your Theory, what kind of test results on Iron and Copper should we expect to see (ie High Iron Levels, Low Copper etc)
@mariovitali that is really a complicated question that maybe we can discuss the next time we speak as it would take me quite a bit of time to answer on here. One thing that i do routinely see is high levels of unbound copper. Not necessarily high readings of copper but high levels of unbound copper which can be found with a lab of copper and ceruloplasmin. @aquariusgirl did you have your copper and ceruloplasmin run is that why you suspect you have an issue with this?
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I see, and what about Iron Levels?
@mariovitali thats the complicated part, would be easier to verbalize. I can try to write something.
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@Bdeep86 .. No I kind of stumbled on it . I tried mitosynergys copper ...which is NOT regular copper which I assume would be pro oxidant or inflammatory & that was a revelation.
Then I noticed I had nickel adducts on SOD1 & I was SOD 2 +\+ so I assumed SODase was kaput.
I was terribly deficient in zinc but Mitosynergy copper was what made a huge impact.
The guy who created that is working on. A bioavailable form of iron ...,2 PhDs are on it they are .2 years out.
Then I noticed I had nickel adducts on SOD1 & I was SOD 2 +\+ so I assumed SODase was kaput.
I was terribly deficient in zinc but Mitosynergy copper was what made a huge impact.
The guy who created that is working on. A bioavailable form of iron ...,2 PhDs are on it they are .2 years out.
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Check this out: I think proper copper & biotin have helped my mitos
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/1/25.full
This is a 2006 article from Bruce Ames & co which I thought was interesting.
Apart from the importance of biotin to mito function & in a further step heme synthesis, there is a really interesting throwaway line about how copper & biotin work together :
However, as expected from copper's role in complex IV, the recovery of complex IV was more efficient when copper and biotin were both added to the medium (data not shown).
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/1/25.full
This is a 2006 article from Bruce Ames & co which I thought was interesting.
Apart from the importance of biotin to mito function & in a further step heme synthesis, there is a really interesting throwaway line about how copper & biotin work together :
However, as expected from copper's role in complex IV, the recovery of complex IV was more efficient when copper and biotin were both added to the medium (data not shown).
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I just saw some guidelines for Alzheimer's patients from UCLA & 1 recommendation was to balance copper & zinc.
But err no word on how to do that !!
But err no word on how to do that !!
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@Bdeep86 ..no didn't discover it by testing more by accident after experimenting w/Mitosynergy copper!
I am SOD2 +\+ & I have nickel adducts on SOD 1 so it was a no brainer really but I suspect a familial problem w/copper
I am SOD2 +\+ & I have nickel adducts on SOD 1 so it was a no brainer really but I suspect a familial problem w/copper