Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

[Gondwanaland]

Is that how you were taking it, Gondwanaland?

I was taking 25-50 mg in capsules, and yes, it caused irritability. Is it a phase I inducer?
I will increase my consuption of oranges and cantaloupes and watch for results. As I said here before, my husband is addicted to OJ.

 

[Violeta]

I was taking 25-50 mg in capsules, and yes, it caused irritability. Is it a phase I inducer?
I will increase my consuption of oranges and cantaloupes and watch for results. As I said here before, my husband is addicted to OJ.

I am looking for information about how it induces Phase I liver detox and found this:

"nflammation can put undue stress on the liver but can be reduced by compounds such as zinc, curcumin, fish oil and alpha-lipoic acid. L-carnitine, l-methionine, choline and inositol all help to metabolize fat in the liver-enhancing function and can reverse fatty liver disease."

I don't know, but everyone is different.

 

[Violeta]

From a different thread:

PS: Baraniuk's CFS proteome study says: the proteome was remarkable for the number of proteins associated with protein misfolding and cerebrovascular amyloidosis syndromes.

 

[jump44]

Can viral or bacterial cause Er stress? SOrry i havent read every page so Idk if its been covered. I wonder because I had some tests done by my cfs doc and had high Early antigen EBV igg results that came back way high plus a reactive lyme band. also as I said earlier my natural killer cell function was tested and came back extremely low. Just thought Id document this here since I am following this regimen and any feedback would be great before I talk to my dr if anyones familiar w this stuff, or had similar results.thanks.

edit also had high calcium levels above range which ive had the whole time Ive had cfs. I read something in the OP about calcium and ER stress but am not quite sure how to interpret it.

 

[mariovitali]

Can viral or bacterial cause Er stress? SOrry i havent read every page so Idk if its been covered. I wonder because I had some tests done by my cfs doc and had high Early antigen EBV igg results that came back way high plus a reactive lyme band. also as I said earlier my natural killer cell function was tested and came back extremely low. Just thought Id document this here since I am following this regimen and any feedback would be great before I talk to my dr if anyones familiar w this stuff, or had similar results.thanks.

edit also had high calcium levels above range which ive had the whole time Ive had cfs. I read something in the OP about calcium and ER stress but am not quite sure how to interpret it.

Absolutely. EBV is one of the Stressors of the Liver and it's been discussed here along with Finasteride and Accutane.

See here :

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...e-treatment-for-cfs.37244/page-45#post-647237

When did you have this test done?

As i am not familiar with this, does an increased EBV igg suggests that currently you have an EBV infection? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can answer this.


Lyme disease could also be a Liver Stressor. See here :

Liver function in early Lyme disease.
Horowitz HW1, Dworkin B, Forseter G, Nadelman RB, Connolly C, Luciano BB, Nowakowski J, O'Brien TA, Calmann M, Wormser GP.
Author information

Abstract
To evaluate the frequency, pattern, and severity of liver function test abnormalities in patients with Lyme disease associated with erythema migrans (EM), 115 individuals with no other identifiable cause for liver function test abnormalities who presented with EM between July 1990 and September 1993 were prospectively evaluated. For individuals with abnormal liver function tests, common causes of hepatitis, including hepatitis A, B, and C, were excluded. A local control group was used for comparison. Forty-six (40%) patients had at least one liver test abnormality, and 31 (27%) had more than 1 abnormality compared with 19 (19%) and 4 (4%) of controls, respectively (P < .01 for each comparison). gamma-Glutamyl transpeptidase (28%) and alanine transaminase (ALT) (27%) were the most frequently elevated liver function tests among Lyme disease patients. Anorexia, nausea, or vomiting was reported by 30% of patients, but did not occur more frequently in patients with elevated liver function tests compared with those with normal values. Patients with early disseminated Lyme disease were more likely to have elevated liver function studies (66%) compared with patients with localized disease (34%) (P = .002). After antibiotic treatment, elevated liver function tests improved or resolved in most patients. Liver function test abnormalities are common in patients with EM but were mild, most often not associated with symptoms, and improved or resolved by 3 weeks after the onset of antibiotic therapy in most patients.

...and what do you know? There exists a Post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome!

Signs of Lyme disease disappeared post-treatment; however, new-onset patient-reported symptoms increased or plateaued over time. At 6 months, 36% of patients reported new-onset fatigue, 20% widespread pain, and 45% neurocognitive difficulties. However, less than 10% reported greater than “minimal” depression across the entire period. Those with PTLDS (36%) did not differ significantly from those without with respect to demographics, pre-treatment SF-36, and BDI-II scores. Statistically significant differences were found over time on the Role Physical, Vitality, Social Functioning, Role Emotional, and Mental Health subscales (with a trend toward significance for the remaining three subscales of Physical Functioning, Bodily Pain, and General Health) of the SF-36 between those with an eventual PTLDS diagnosis and those without when measured at 6 months.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3548099/

 

[Violeta]

The resveratrol might be making your blood pressure drop because it increases production of Nitric Oxide, which lowers blood pressure.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110487

Let me see if I can think of some antioxidants that don't cause increase in nitric oxide.

Cistus incanus is a good antioxidant that doesn't cause the blood pressure drop problem for me.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007633824948

 

[mariovitali]

Dear All,


Just wanted to let you know that i just crashed really badly. ATM I have SEVERE brainfog, OI, irregular heartbeat. I am a mess actually

I stupidly decided to stop TUDCA *and* Choline...i feel so bad now because i realize how fine i felt and my condition reminds me of the s**t i've been through having this for so long


This means back to TUDCA and Choline for me.


Will keep you all updated...

 

[Violeta]

@mariovitali , did you crash overnight? How long ago did you stop taking TUDCA and choline? I had been hoping that once the fin (or whatever anyone's problem causer was) was cleared out homeostasis would last until we did something wrong again.

 

[Violeta]

And in response to a question asked by someone who read through this thread, I found this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8706913

Heat shock protein hsp70 overexpression confers resistance against nitric oxide.
Bellmann K1, Jäättelä M, Wissing D, Burkart V, Kolb H.
Author information

Abstract
Heat stress is known to render rat islet cells resistant against the toxic effects of nitric oxide, reactive oxygen intermediates and the islet cell toxin streptozotocin. We report here for the first time that protection against nitric oxide is mediated by the major heat shock protein, hsp70, even in the absence of heat stress. The human hsp70 gene was stably transfected into the rat insulinoma cell line RINm5F. Constitutive expression of hsp70 caused protection from NO-induced cell lysis which was of the same extent as seen after heat stressing cells. Our results identify hsp70 as a defence molecule against nitric oxide.

 

[mariovitali]

@mariovitali , did you crash overnight? How long ago did you stop taking TUDCA and choline? I had been hoping that once the fin (or whatever anyone's problem causer was) was cleared out homeostasis would last until we did something wrong again.

No i began to have some minor symptoms like very mild Atrial fibrillation and OI, which became worse. Then i got Tinnitus which for me is the signal that a crash has occurred.


I stopped TUDCA a week ago (i think, maybe more) and Choline two days ago because as discussed i want to take as less supplements as possible.

I am very depressed at the moment..but i know that whatever i feel like is simply not true.

 

[Violeta]

No i began to have some minor symptoms like very mild Atrial fibrillation and OI, which became worse. Then i got Tinnitus which for me is the signal that a crash has occurred.


I stopped TUDCA a week ago (i think, maybe more) and Choline two days ago because as discussed i want to take as less supplements as possible.

I am very depressed at the moment..but i know that whatever i feel like is simply not true.

I know that feeling. It's so strange how your brain can make you think such negative thoughts, that all seem to disappear when you finally get better. I hope you will feel better soon.

Here's something you might find interesting about astragalus. This is from longecity forum. I don't belong there but I read there from time to time when an interesting subject comes up.

"Astragalus has done everything I ever expected and more the only thing that is a bit on the slow side is I have a case of mild MPB. It has improved only marginally and I don’t know if it will ever cause all my hair to grow back. However as it took approximately 25 years to get to where it is I can assume it may take a while to improve completely if at all."

It's supposed to help with MPB, this is the first time I read that about it.

 

[Ema]

Hoping you reverse course quickly, @mariovitali! Feel better soon!

 

[mariovitali]

Thank you so much @Ema...

Took Choline and Inositol and TUDCA straight away, i feel somewhat better at least psychologically.

This was a big lesson for me. Quite possibly TUDCA and Choline have a synergistic effect or Choline somehow compensated for the lack of TUDCA.

I know now that i should never quit these two Supplements together. One of them stays.

I really really do not wish to go through this again....brought me back really bad memories and how miserable my life was with this condition.

@Violeta Thanks, i will have a look at it when i can..

 

[jump44]

Funny you posted mario, I had stopped TUDCA 4 days ago to see if my stomach discomfort would dissapear if it was being caused by the Tudca and have noticed a bit of backsliding from the improvements I posted about earlier in the thread. Also didnt take and choline/inositol yesterday.

 

[jump44]

Absolutely. EBV is one of the Stressors of the Liver and it's been discussed here along with Finasteride and Accutane.

See here :

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...e-treatment-for-cfs.37244/page-45#post-647237

When did you have this test done?

As i am not familiar with this, does an increased EBV igg suggests that currently you have an EBV infection? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can answer this.


Lyme disease could also be a Liver Stressor. See here :






...and what do you know? There exists a Post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome!





http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3548099/

I had these tests run just a week and a half ago. From best I can glean, the EBV "could" represent a "reactivation" or chronic infection. I will know more when I talk w my doctor. The lyme band being positive I think just means I may need to investigate further and have more or better tests run. Not very knowledgable on all this obviously I just know that a viral or bacterial cause of Cfs has been debated about for years. Hope to know more soon.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@mariovitali take care! Here's wishing you a speedy recovery.

Have you tried to increase your dietary intake of choline in eggs to see if your intolerance to Phe subsided?

 

[mariovitali]

@Gondwanaland Thank you

I haven't tried it, i only quitted Choline two days ago. Also i haven't tried increasing Phenylalanine and to be honest i don't think i will try for some time.

What i did try was to increase my Glutamate intake (eating chips with MSG in them) and for the first time in years i had no problems with it

 

[mariovitali]

Funny you posted mario, I had stopped TUDCA 4 days ago to see if my stomach discomfort would dissapear if it was being caused by the Tudca and have noticed a bit of backsliding from the improvements I posted about earlier in the thread. Also didnt take and choline/inositol yesterday.

Try to follow the regimen for a month, give it a good try so that you can have a clear understanding if the regimen is working for you or not.

Note : It took me two months to feel completely normal with no symptoms whatsoever.

Has your stomach discomfort subsided when you stopped TUDCA and Choline?

 

[jump44]

Try to follow the regimen for a month, give it a good try so that you can have a clear understanding if the regimen is working for you or not.

Note : It took me two months to feel completely normal with no symptoms whatsoever.

Has your stomach discomfort subsided when you stopped TUDCA and Choline?

Well I had only been on the choline/inositol for a few days so I dont think that was the culprit. But yes the discomfort stopped for most part( I always have some sort of stomach distress this was more extreme) when I stopped the TUDCA...however as I said I started to feel some other benefits going away by yesterday.. I dosed Tudca again this AM and havent felt any bad effects stomach wise. I only didnt take the choline/inositol blend yesterday because of my concerns over the inositol test lowering effect etc. I was gonna buy a standalone choline product this week. Yes I know this will take time its been 7 years I do not expect to be cured overnight haha its just frustrating as you said to feel even slight relief and when you feel the typical symptoms creeping back in its devestating for sure! I really really want either the TUDCA or choline to work for me because I know my liver is screwed. And methyfolate has been very weird for me in the past, very up and down and frustrating.

 

[Violeta]

Rooibos tea increases T 43%.