Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

[Violeta]

@Violeta

Yes it is the smooth endoplasmic reticulum but why is this important? Does that mean that ER Stress is the main culprit?

Because protein folding doesn't take place in the smooth ER. So I'm wondering what that would mean with respect to all the information about protein folding.

 

[jump44]

I never took Finasteride or accutane but I remember when I started getting bad about 7 years ago one of my first symptoms was the right sided pain in gb/liver area along with absurdly bad pelvic pain/prostate inflammation. I took saw palmetto/ pumpkin seed extract for a few months and this made my sexual function/depression plummet to new lows. Just realized these are both 5ar inhibitors. Of course I dont think these were the cause as obviously my symptoms proceeded their use, but seeing as fin is being discussed here just thought Id toss that in. I doubt these are anywhere near as powerful as finasteride or whatever but in someone whos already vulnerable as I apparently was they too can be devestating. What a mess.

 

[Violeta]

I never took Finasteride or accutane but I remember when I started getting bad about 7 years ago one of my first symptoms was the right sided pain in gb/liver area along with absurdly bad pelvic pain/prostate inflammation. I took saw palmetto/ pumpkin seed extract for a few months and this made my sexual function/depression plummet to new lows. Just realized these are both 5ar inhibitors. Of course I dont think these were the cause as obviously my symptoms proceeded their use, but seeing as fin is being discussed here just thought Id toss that in. I doubt these are anywhere near as powerful as finasteride or whatever but in someone whos already vulnerable as I apparently was they too can be devestating. What a mess.

It's a mess, alright, but it might just mean you had fatty liver and that we all have fatty liver and need to clean it up. That might be the case with finasteride and accutane users, too. They had early hair loss and acne because of liver problems. (liver heat I think is what they call it) Traditional Chinese Medicine probably would have said liver problem was the issue to begin with and then the finasteride and accutane just made the liver issue worse.

It seems as though drugs tend to make things worse instead of better.

Just a thought.

 

[Violeta]

Because protein folding doesn't take place in the smooth ER. So I'm wondering what that would mean with respect to all the information about protein folding.

I just want to emphasize that I am merely confused, not saying that the protein misfolding is inaccurate.

The only thing I can think of is that problems in the smooth endoplasmic reticulum somehow can be a cause of rough ER stress. After all, finasteride does raise heat shock protein, but finasteride's action seems to take place on the smooth ER.

I don't know, just trying to figure it out with a limited amount of time for reading.

 

[jump44]

Certainly possible, Violeta. When I think back through my life I remember I got very sick my second semester of freshman college Year. I had never really drank alcohol before I went to college and during that spring semester I got hit with profound fatigue and stomach pain that lasted the whole summer. Very "Cfs like". I recovered most likely due to my young age etc but Ive always wondered if that had a connection with my current state. Doctors never found a cause for my illness at that time.

 

[Helen]

Certainly possible, Violeta. When I think back through my life I remember I got very sick my second semester of freshman college Year. I had never really drank alcohol before I went to college and during that spring semester I got hit with profound fatigue and stomach pain that lasted the whole summer. Very "Cfs like". I recovered most likely due to my young age etc but Ive always wondered if that had a connection with my current state. Doctors never found a cause for my illness at that time.

I haven´t read the whole thread so maybe the following is quite wrong about the first thing that came to my mind when I read about your symptoms after drinking alcohol. Alcohol has to be methylated and if there is lack of methylation co-factors as e.g. B12 and or folate or others you may get sick from drinking. Of course there are other reasons but if you didn´t research this, it might be worth it.

 

[mariovitali]

I think that "Avoid Alcohol at all costs" should be added to the regimen...

To be honest i haven't had any alcohol for the past 3 months (i think)

ps @Helen i posted this 2 seconds after you commented about Alcohol


@Violeta

I see your point, this means more reading to do...

 

[jump44]

@mariovitali

How important is inositol in this? I have a choline/inositol combo supp but through some reading
saw some people getting ssri type sides from inositol(of course these were on huge doses). I guess
I am just super paranoid at this point of what I put into my system lol and anything that might negatively affect sexual function is always on my radar(im sure you understand). I understand choline seems to be super important obviously.Ive noticed some positives from supplementing w the combo for a few days but I just thought Id ask if youre using inositol or if its super necessary to the regimen. thanks

 

[mariovitali]

@mariovitali

How important is inositol in this? I have a choline/inositol combo supp but through some reading
saw some people getting ssri type sides from inositol(of course these were on huge doses). I guess
I am just super paranoid at this point of what I put into my system lol and anything that might negatively affect sexual function is always on my radar(im sure you understand). I understand choline seems to be super important obviously.Ive noticed some positives from supplementing w the combo for a few days but I just thought Id ask if youre using inositol or if its super necessary to the regimen. thanks

To the best of my knowledge you shouldn't be worried about Inositol.

A thing that may cause "problems" is Riboflavin because it is a 5-AR inhibitor. I take a quarter of a tablet which is roughly about 250% of the RDA.

If you have any doubts you can stop taking it (Inositol), however make sure that you keep a log on how you feel and adjust accordingly whatever you are taking.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I haven´t read the whole thread so maybe the following is quite wrong about the first thing that came to my mind when I read about your symptoms after drinking alcohol. Alcohol has to be methylated and if there is lack of methylation co-factors as e.g. B12 and or folate or others you may get sick from drinking. Of course there are other reasons but if you didn´t research this, it might be worth it.

Helen, in fact this thread is also about avoiding alcohol and taking choline as a methyl donor (which is the most powerful methy donor there is AFAIK).

 

[Gondwanaland]

How important is inositol in this?

If you have any doubts you can stop taking it (Inositol), however make sure that you keep a log on how you feel and adjust accordingly whatever you are taking.

Women with PCOS take inositol to lower androgens and avoid hormonal acne. So depending on your need, love it or hate it. I want to keep distance from it (low testosterone, no acne, but NOT cured by accutane ).

 

[jump44]

Women with PCOS take inositol to lower androgens and avoid hormonal acne. So depending on your need, love it or hate it. I want to keep distance from it (low testosterone, no acne, but NOT cured by accutane ).

Yeah Ive read reports online of inositol lowering libido etc in some but usually these people were taking huge amounts of it. Unfortunately I bought a choline/inositol combo supp lol but thankfully it was cheap. Ive had severe hormonal problems throughout this whole mess so IThink I will err on the side of caution for now and go buy a standalone choline bit product next week.., even though obviously it hasnt affected mario badly or anyone else in this thread whos taking it as far as I can tell. Choline is supposedly pro hormonal from what Ive read, so perhaps these two balance each other out.

 

[Violeta]

Women with PCOS take inositol to lower androgens and avoid hormonal acne. So depending on your need, love it or hate it. I want to keep distance from it (low testosterone, no acne, but NOT cured by accutane ).

Wow, I didn't know that about inositol, Gondwanaland! I have choline and inositol in separate powders, and I have been lazy and not mixing in the inositol. I think I need it. It's good for itchy scalp and alopecia, too. I don't have alopecia, but I do sometimes get itchy scalp! Very interesting!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Wow, I didn't know that about inositol, Gondwanaland! I have choline and inositol in separate powders, and I have been lazy and not mixing in the inositol. I think I need it. It's good for itchy scalp and alopecia, too. I don't have alopecia, but I do sometimes get itchy scalp! Very interesting!

I would definetly take it if my testosterone wasn't so low
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24224112
Combined treatment with Myo-inositol and selenium ensures euthyroidism in subclinical hypothyroidism patients with autoimmune thyroiditis

 

[Ema]

Every time I read about inositol, I go out and buy a big tub which I then throw away 3 days later when I realize it makes me anxious and irritable.

Go figure!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Every time I read about inositol, I go out and buy a big tub which I then throw away 3 days later when I realize it makes me anxious and irritable.

Go figure!

I think I have done the same a couple of times. Must go thru my log to check what reaction I got and avoid to spend money with it again
How much do you take? My doses were beteween 25 and 50 mg.

 

[Ema]

How much do you take? My doses were beteween 25 and 50 mg.

I was taking a lot more...not sure at this point but the doses for anxiety are in the grams...

 

[Violeta]

Yeah Ive read reports online of inositol lowering libido etc in some but usually these people were taking huge amounts of it. Unfortunately I bought a choline/inositol combo supp lol but thankfully it was cheap. Ive had severe hormonal problems throughout this whole mess so IThink I will err on the side of caution for now and go buy a standalone choline bit product next week.., even though obviously it hasnt affected mario badly or anyone else in this thread whos taking it as far as I can tell. Choline is supposedly pro hormonal from what Ive read, so perhaps these two balance each other out.

I agree with you, jump44, I just looked up about inositol lowering testosterone, and in the article I read it said at doses of 4 grams. That is a large amount. If you take a choline/inositol at 500mg twice a day you would be getting no more than 500mg, or .5 gr a day.

And don't forget, choline and inositol are found together in food sources.

 

[Gondwanaland]

And don't forget, choline and inositol are found together in food sources.

I found oranges and cantaloupes as inositol sources

 

[Violeta]

I found oranges and cantaloupes as inositol sources

Is that how you were taking it, Gondwanaland?