Transdermal B12 oils

[ahmo]

@Gondwanaland These experiences make me wonder if you could grind up an AdB12 tablet and mix it into some the same lotion/grease? Worth a try.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I guess that folate and carnitine should be in place before that... It takes a lot of homework until there.

 

[picante]

Report on taking liquid B12 transdermally:
Complementary Prescriptions Methylcobalamin
https://www.pureformulas.com/methylcobalamin-4-oz-by-complementary-prescriptions.html

Initially I tried mixing 15 drops of this with my skin oil (grapeseed). Oil & water don't mix. So then I just decided to smear the 15 drops on and cover those places with oil so that my clothes wouldn't rub it off.

I substituted the liquid B12 for one 1000-mcg dose of Enz. Ther. MeB12 from Feb. 17th to 23rd. I was still taking my 2nd dose of the day as Enz. Ther. sublingual.

At first I didn't notice any difference. A couple of days on I started to feel more tired (brain & body). Looking back at my supplement log, my AdB12 dose was all over the place. Finally I settled on 1500 mcg X 4 doses of AdB12.

But something was out of balance, and I kept adding more potassium (because of neck pain) and a little extra mefolate. Finally on Monday I felt so crappy, I tried adding in extra zinc around 4:00 pm (on the assumption that I had taken too much potassium).

That helped enormously, and I ended up taking 3 extra doses of zinc and one of Mg. And I managed to get down to the studio and give the tango class I was scheduled to teach.

On Tuesday I went back to my standard re-titration starting point:
1000 mcg Enz. MeB12 X 2 doses
1500 mcg AdB12 X 2 doses
and from there I was able to sort out potassium and folate.

I still don't know whether I was absorbing more MeB12 or less with the liquid, as compared to the Enz. sublingual tab. But I'm feeling so much better that I'm not in any mood to experiment with it again.

 

[ahmo]

I was still taking my 2nd dose of the day as Enz. Ther. sublingual.

But something was out of balance, and I kept adding more potassium (because of neck pain) and a little extra mefolate.

I still don't know whether I was absorbing more MeB12 or less with the liquid, as compared to the Enz. sublingual tab.

Judging from my own experience, and from what you're saying here, it may well have been that you absorbed more by skin. You added K+, but then that was too much; you added folate..were there folate deficiency symptoms, like skin? Though this is all over a short period of time. And then you taught/danced!!! Wow! For me, transdermal 5mg is delivering the same effectiveness as I got from 20mg sublingual.

 

[Gondwanaland]

5mg is delivering the same effectiveness as I got from 20mg sublingual.

WOW no wonder I feel exausted after rubbing 1.125 mg on DH's elbow
Today after several months with no MB12 at all, I took 1 sublingual drop (200mcg) and felt really good. I hope I can pair it with my T3/T4 from now on and build up slowly. Perhaps it is the addition of both that will work for me.

 

[picante]

Thanks, @ahmo. My folate deficiency symptoms are low back inflammation, exhaustion, brain goes groggy/foggy, and last comes depression. I had all of those, but the inflammation was minimal.

I think the 15 drops was about 500 mcg, since it was about 1/2 dropperful.

Yeah, I spent a lot of Monday lying down. It was while I was lying there hoping for energy that I thought I'd better try zinc. I've experienced this before -- excess potassium makes me super exhausted and makes my neck hurt at the top of the atlas/under the occiput.

And I teach with a partner. It involves very little dancing and a lot of watching & helping.

 

[Gondwanaland]

better try zinc. I've experienced this before -- excess potassium makes me super exhausted and makes my neck hurt at the top of the atlas/under the occiput.

@Sherpa should read this

 

[picante]

WOW no wonder I feel exausted after rubbing 1.125 mg on DH's elbow

Oh my goodness, you absorbed it through your palms!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Oh my goodness, you absorbed it through your palms!

Yup, last time I did it with a surgical glove though.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Complementary Prescriptions Methylcobalamin
https://www.pureformulas.com/methylcobalamin-4-oz-by-complementary-prescriptions.html

This one will also make you need more zinc

Purified water‚ glycerin‚ polysorbate 80 cinnamon and cranberry flavoring and ionic copper solution.

 

[Sherpa]

WOW no wonder I feel exausted after rubbing 1.125 mg on DH's elbow
.

Oh my goodness, you absorbed it through your palms!

I'm totally confused. Did the exposure to MeCbl make you feel exhausted? (For me I associate it MeCbl with an energizing / brightening effect.... but I think there are times when I take a dose and have wanted to take an afternoon nap, or lie in bed longer. Hmmm...)

Report on taking liquid B12 transdermally:

I substituted the liquid B12 for one 1000-mcg dose of Enz. Ther. MeB12 from Feb. 17th to 23rd. I was still taking my 2nd dose of the day as Enz. Ther. sublingual.

At first I didn't notice any difference. A couple of days on I started to feel more tired (brain & body).

Did the transdermal dose make you feel tired? Or was it less effective than the Enzy, thus making you feel more fatigued?

If you could explain like I'm 5 & brain fogged: were the transdermal drops more or less able to deliver mB12 to your body than your usual Enzy?


Oh yeah... and too much K+ completely exhausts me and wipes me out for sure. It's like I'm drunk, drugged and hungover all at once. I'm so scared and leary of it that I almost don't even want to go down the methylation hole again. I probably will, tho... but first I will attempt to get abundant potassium from diet so that supplementing will be more rare.

 

[picante]

Did the transdermal dose make you feel tired? Or was it less effective than the Enzy, thus making you feel more fatigued?

If you could explain like I'm 5 & brain fogged: were the transdermal drops more or less able to deliver mB12 to your body than your usual Enzy?

I still don't know whether I was absorbing more MeB12 or less with the liquid, as compared to the Enz. sublingual tab. But I'm feeling so much better that I'm not in any mood to experiment with it again.

Short answer: Heck if I know.

 

[ahmo]

I'm totally confused. Did the exposure to MeCbl make you feel exhausted? (For me I associate it MeCbl with an energizing / brightening effect.... but I think there are times when I take a dose and have wanted to take an afternoon nap, or lie in bed longer. Hmmm...)

@Gondwanaland seems to have some very idiosyncratic responses. Don't mean to speak for someone else, but to dispel a bit of your sense of confusion.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland seems to have some very idiosyncratic responses. Don't mean to speak for someone else, but to dispel a bit of your sense of confusion.

Didn't @picante just have the same reaction as mine?

My interpretation of my reactions are:

• I stopped benefiting from oral/sublingual MB12 due to low thyroid and felt just tired everytime I tried it (low ATP?)
• this is different from the afternoon-nap effect that I experienced during my first trial
• Now I am finally replacing T3, and transdermal MB12 made me exhausted (did it exhausted my available ATP?)
• I tried a sublingual drop (200mcg) and blurry vision and fog went away
• Since that upping my T3 didn't work very well, now I hope that pairing it as it is with sublingual MB12 will work

 

[picante]

This one will also make you need more zinc

You're a smart cookie, as usual, Izzy. I was already taking copper drops (a miniscule amount, 0.2-0.3 mg), so I quit those when I started the liquid B12.

What I didn't know was how much ionic copper they put in the liquid B12. Maybe I raised my copper unintentionally.

Edited: BTW, there is no polysorbate 80 in this liquid B12. I confirmed that before ordering it.

 

[picante]

I'm totally confused. Did the exposure to MeCbl make you feel exhausted? (For me I associate it MeCbl with an energizing / brightening effect.... but I think there are times when I take a dose and have wanted to take an afternoon nap, or lie in bed longer. Hmmm...)

You and @Gondwanaland both have the homozygous MAO A mutation, and in addition you have the homozygous COMT mutation, @Sherpa. If those mutations are expressed, you won't be able to break down serotonin or dopamine very well, which can lead to excess methyl groups floating around.

My husband has the same mutations, and the amount of MeB12 he can tolerate is about 500 mcg /day. When he takes too much, he loses his brain energy and turns into a bump on a log. Godwanaland is also very sensitive to MeB12, and takes only tiny amounts.

 

[picante]

Didn't @picante just have the same reaction as mine?

I don't know, izzy. So many things make me exhausted: too little MeB12, too much MeB12, too little AdB12, too much potassium, too little Mefolate, ....

 

[garyfritz]

You and @Gondwanaland both have the homozygous MAO A mutation, and in addition you have the homozygous COMT mutation, @Sherpa. If those mutations are expressed, you won't be able to break down serotonin or dopamine very well, which can lead to excess methyl groups floating around.

This stuff just absolutely confuses the heck out of me. I also have homo MAO A R297R, but only heterozygous COMT (several of 'em). And I am very fortunate that my energy levels are still very good.

In fact I just got back from 3 days of skiing. The first day I crashed -- a bit of nausea, felt weak and shaky, had to stop to rest every few minutes as I picked my way down the mountain. Then I went to my room and passed out for 3 hours.

It's possible that was a touch of altitude sickness, as I was up well over 10,000' / 3000m. But I live at 5000' / 1500m so I wouldn't have expected that much effect. It's also possible I had potassium issues. I realized I'd had a few occasional cramps for a few weeks before that -- arm, chest, etc -- and I cramped a bunch that first day after my crash. So before I went to my room to sleep, I got some potassium gluconate. I popped a bunch of those for the rest of the trip and didn't have any more problems with cramps.

Days 2 and 3 I did fine. That included some very strenuous expert-slope skiing. At the end of both days my legs were absolutely rubber, exhausted with burning thighs, but that had more to do with being out of shape than with any methylation issues. (My friend had the same problem and he does yoga every day! But being 60 probably doesn't help...)

So I have basically those same SNPs, but I tolerate (no, I **require**) large doses of B12. My energy levels are good. I don't know why my body works the way it does, but I'm glad it works as well as it does.

 

[picante]

• I tried a sublingual drop (200mcg) and blurry vision and fog went away

I may try that, too. Right now I'm still needing extra zinc, so your suspicion about the Cu in my liquid B12 is quite likely correct.

Does copper absorb well transdermally, anybody know?

 

[ahmo]

Didn't @picante just have the same reaction as mine?

Sorry, I didn't connect that.

Now I am finally replacing T3, and transdermal MB12 made me exhausted(did it exhausted my available ATP?)

Really interesting ? re ATP.

So I have basically those same SNPs, but I tolerate (no, I **require**) large doses of B12

same as me.