Thoughts on the Perrin Technique?

[Mary]

I talked to a medical intuitive yesterday, in relation to relatively new symptoms of increased cranial pressure. His take: lymph flowing back into the head, creating pressure and toxicity. I swear--- I didn't say anything about Perrin to him!

Sometimes you get the message from every direction. I guess I am going to contact Dr. Tam!

@Jyoti - what can I say - wow!

Do contact Dr. Tam. I saw my local osteopath today and he called Dr. Tam at her direction. She talked with us for close to 30 minutes about the Perrin Technique. It was great. I think I said above that she's also willing to talk to the lymphatic therapist I'll be seeing in July. She also told my doctor to call her any time, and she means it.

 

[Mary]

@Guwop2 - I just realized I didn't really address your questions about whether toxins can be removed through lymphatic drainage and instead just wrote about toxins in general above. Someone else recently appeared to question whether toxins really were a problem for people and I think that's where I was coming from.

I agree with you - I think there may be some dispute about whether lymphatic drainage actually removes toxins though I would guess that this is not being studied either. I believe most research money is spent on developing drugs -

 

[Wayne]

I just realized I didn't really address your questions about whether toxins can be removed through lymphatic drainage

Hi @Mary -- Just wanted to take a moment and thank you for all the great information (and energy) you've shared on this thread. Very helpful, and has me looking forward to contacting Dr. Tam. Fortunately for me, I'm now living in the Twin Cities area, and can easily see her locally.

Regarding toxins and detoxification (and head pressure -- @Jyoti): I've felt for a long time a need to put a strong emphasis on detoxification, as I always seemed to be "behind curve" in that department. Signs for me included physical and mental sluggishness, headaches (daily), body aches and pains, vertigo, and more. A major symptom was head pressure.

I eventually discovered that coffee enemas provided me with consistent and dependable relief from all these symptoms. Over the years I've added various detoxification substances to the coffee solution to make them even more effective, things like NAC, Vit. C, charcoal, bentonite clay, and many more.

I thought I'd mention this in this thread, so that if anybody undertakes the Perrin therapy and begins to experience very unpleasant detoxification episodes, I think there's a good chance coffee enemas could be very helpful.

I think saunas could also be effective. PEMF, HBOT, ozone, and other therapies would also likely be helpful. Those are all a lot more complicated and expensive compared to coffee enemas. Some of the instructions you find online for coffee enemas always struck me as being overly complex. Once you learn how to do them, they're pretty simple to do.

Besides alleviating symptoms of toxicity, they also provide (for me) a few hours of extra energy and mental clarity. Priceless when dealing with ME/CFS.

Edit to Add: -- It wasn't until reading this thread that I began to suspect that part (or perhaps all) of my toxic overload might be due to a reverse flow of the lymphatic drainage in my head area. I'm looking forward to seeing if this is indeed the case. Who better to begin this journey with than Dr. Tam!

 

[emmablondevoyage]

I did look at her but she was the most expensive out of all that I contacted, morethan twice as much as some (and I spoke to 4 therapists). Perhaps the higher price means shes very good, although all have been trained by Dr Perrin himself so theres an equal footing with regards to that training at least. The one I liked best from the consulation chat happened to be the cheapest, perhaps because the treatment centre wasnt in central london.

They may have all been originally trained by Dr Perrin but that doesn't make them equal. For example they have been practicing for different lengths of time so have different levels of experience and I've found that some of them are just better at their job than others. Also some of them like Rakhee have done extra trainings so incorporate different techniques into what they offer and are more experienced with the cranial sacral aspect (the head part). This explains why I don't improve with some of them but with others it has been life changing!

So don't be afraid to switch if you don't notice any progress after a while. FYI Rakhee has some other practitioners working at her clinic who she has trained and passed on her skills to. They are much cheaper than she is! I'm saying this because I wasted so much money and time with other practitioners and I wish I had just gone with her practice in the first place (I know others who have tried multiple Perrin practitioners in and around London who say the same)

 

[keepswimming]

They may have all been originally trained by Dr Perrin but that doesn't make them equal. For example they have been practicing for different lengths of time so have different levels of experience and I've found that some of them are just better at their job than others. Also some of them like Rakhee have done extra trainings so incorporate different techniques into what they offer and are more experienced with the cranial sacral aspect (the head part). This explains why I don't improve with some of them but with others it has been life changing!

So don't be afraid to switch if you don't notice any progress after a while. FYI Rakhee has some other practitioners working at her clinic who she has trained and passed on her skills to. They are much cheaper than she is! I'm saying this because I wasted so much money and time with other practitioners and I wish I had just gone with her practice in the first place (I know others who have tried multiple Perrin practitioners in and around London who say the same)

I have heard good things about Rakhee on the Facebook group.

 

[emmablondevoyage]

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I have heard good things about Rakhee on the Facebook group

Oh that's interesting! I'm not on Facebook but that's good to know! thanks for sharing

 

[Guwop2]

So don't be afraid to switch if you don't notice any progress after a while. FYI Rakhee has some other practitioners working at her clinic who she has trained and passed on her skills to. They are much cheaper than she is! I'm saying this because I wasted so much money and time with other practitioners and I wish I had just gone with her practice in the first place (I know others who have tried multiple Perrin practitioners in and around London who say the same)

Yes, ive got the info on the other practitioners at her centre. Just curious, since it appears you are based in/around London that you may have tried other practitioners whom I have been looking at, but that you have rejected. No need to mention names, but perhaps the treatment centre and I can infer form that if their pracitioner was not so great? Ive consulted with phoenixosteopathy in Wandsworth (v near to me), the practioner their I got positive vibes from..though perhaps youve seen them and felt it was a waste of money? Also conulted at Kennington oestopaths...do these practices sound familiar?

 

[emmablondevoyage]

I have moved around a lot and the ones who I felt were a waste of money were none of the ones you mentioned, they are located either in the counties of Staffordshire, Lancashire, West Midlands. There are quite a few practitioners in each of these counties so this doesn't identify them by name. Then I have seen some who I have found good / average who are located in Lancashire, Hertfordshire / Buckinghamshire, West Midlands and North Wales. Then I would say Rakhee is the best IMO and was amazing. My ranking of them is based on how much improvement / progress I made with each of them and how much better I felt after their individual treatments.

I looked up the ones you mentioned and I haven't heard of either of them. If you haven't already, it might be a good idea to ask how long they have been using the Perrin technique to treat people! And definitely see how you get on in terms of if you start improving and feeling better!

 

[crussher]

I replied to this thread earlier saying I was about to go to Bordeaux to see France's only Perrin specialist, Dr Vincent Staf.

He examined me last month. Despite having already had 9 osteopathic sessions this year, he said my spine remained very rigid and that I had 'five blocks' in the thoracic region causing rigidity (just as per Perrin's observations). Dr. Staf said it was no wonder I suffered from ME, given my spine. He wanted me to do an X-Ray before manipulating the thoracic region to make sure he wouldn't do any damage.

I'm seeing him again next week. Unfortunately, his availability is very limited and I won't be able to see him again until September. So I'll crack on with another osteopath in the meantime to try and make further progress.

I really think there is something to this. It's one part of a very large, complex picture, but an important one.

 

[Curtains]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum. Has anyone got on any updates on how they're getting on with the perrin technique?

I started a few weeks ago after hearing about but feeling skeptical. I've found I have felt worse during the first few weeks of the treatment so far but trying to remind myself that this is a good thing!

 

[DonPepe]

I was one of Perrin’s original patients. I paid out good money for absolutely no improvement. It’s pseudoscience and ME sufferers should be very careful. It may make some people worse.

 

[DonPepe]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum. Has anyone got on any updates on how they're getting on with the perrin technique?

I started a few weeks ago after hearing about but feeling skeptical. I've found I have felt worse during the first few weeks of the treatment so far but trying to remind myself that this is a good thing!

If you are getting worse I advise you to stop it now. I don’t believe the Perrin Technique is of any use whatsoever. Just smoke, mirrors and money. Your money.

 

[Curtains]

If you are getting worse I advise you to stop it now. I don’t believe the Perrin Technique is of any use whatsoever. Just smoke, mirrors and money. Your money.

It does say that you can expect to feel worse within the first 12 weeks (I think)

 

[DonPepe]

It does say that you can expect to feel worse within the first 12 weeks (I think)

The perfect sales pitch for pseudoscience. You have to get worse before you get better. Utter bs in my opinion. Anyway I was severe when I first had the treatment, and I’m severe now. Nothing changed apart from my wallet. It became lighter.

 

[Curtains]

The perfect sales pitch for pseudoscience. You have to get worse before you get better. Utter bs in my opinion. Anyway I was severe when I first had the treatment, and I’m severe now. Nothing changed apart from my wallet. It became lighter.

I have a friend who's tried it and found it's been beneficial, that's what made me actually start after feeling quite skeptical about it. It's good to hear both positive and negative experiences to get a well rounded picture. Thanks for your reply!

 

[DonPepe]

It’s common knowledge human contact and an interested practitioner can have a strong placebo effect. Add to this, the paying out of money ( a strong motivator of the placebo effect ), and you have every reason to believe it’s doing you good. Sadly, in my case, like every other alternative treatment I’ve tried, it failed miserably, and it was Perrin himself who treated me.

People with CFS pay fortunes for treatments that have absolutely no scientific basis whatsoever. In my opinion the Perrin technique falls into this category.

 

[Wayne]

People with CFS pay fortunes for treatments that have absolutely no scientific basis whatsoever. In my opinion the Perrin technique falls into this category.

So, you're definitively saying that nobody has ever gotten any improvements from the Perrin technique unless it was placebo induced? If so, I have to say, that's quite an assertion. I can understand your disappointment of paying out money for no improvements. But we're all different, and what works for one person won't work for another. That's just the way it is.

I'd be shocked if there aren't large numbers of people with ME/CFS who have gotten improvement. I myself discovered a thoracic extension excercise on YouTube that has done wonders for me. Structural issues are important, and different people need different techniques to address them adequately. If you feel you have some structural issues, you may want to peruse various videos on YouTube to see if you can do some "tweaking" on your own.

All the Best..

 

[DonPepe]

So what’s the science then?

 

[DonPepe]

So, you're definitively saying that nobody has ever gotten any improvements from the Perrin technique unless it was placebo induced? If so, I have to say, that's quite an assertion. I can understand your disappointment of paying out money for no improvements. But we're all different, and what works for one person won't work for another. That's just the way it is.

I'd be shocked if there aren't large numbers of people with ME/CFS who have gotten improvement. I myself discovered a thoracic extension excercise on YouTube that has done wonders for me. Structural issues are important, and different people need different techniques to address them adequately. If you feel you have some structural issues, you may want to peruse various videos on YouTube to see if you can do some "tweaking" on your own.

I’ve learnt the hard way. Tens of thousands of pounds and multiple alternative therapies later, it’s finally dawned on me that I have a wretched incurable disease rooted in negative and complex metabolic disturbances and immune disfunction.

A glorified version of lymphatic drainage ain’t gonna cut it, for me at least, Its a “therapy”, that makes people feel human. For a period.

 

[Mary]

So what’s the science then?

@DonPepe - we don't have science for everything we try. If I waited for "science" to tell me what to do, I would not have tried hardly anything that has ended up helping me. I put "science" in quotes because I've found several supplements which have helped my functioning, but every time I look up something that does not involve a clinical trial of a patented medicine, there's a disclaimer that more research is needed. And the more research generally is not done if it involves something that can't be patented.

A couple of years ago a study made headlines - treating rheumatoid arthritis and possibly other autoimmune illnesses with baking soda (!) - it was fascinating and I am certain no more "research" is being done about that. They're pouring millions if not billions into research re diabetes and yet from what I read the vast majority of cases could be prevented - but there's billions more to be made in drugs. If some of those billions were invested in educating people how truly awful diabetes is, and how it can be prevented, etc., well it would be a different world. But as things stand, the money is poured into drugs and not creating and maintaining health.

There are some things that have helped me (btw, I've been crashing for 26 years):

B1 - which also caused a phosphorous deficiency (refeeding syndrome) which I was told was nonsense by an endocrinologist, who knew nothing about what I was talking about. Ironically of course I crashed after making the one hour each way drive to see this guy who basically mocked me. Fortunately because I did my own reading I've been able to manage my phosphorous and keep taking the B1 - having my cake and eating it too!

methylfolate - which induced a potassium deficiency (refeeding syndrome again) - again, managing it with potassium supplementation

branched chain amino acids - have helped with energy AND cutting PEM recovery time by half or a little bit more

I have spent thousands of dollars on supplements over the years and a lot of it was money down the drain. But no one has any answers for us and many of us choose to be our own guinea pigs. I'm not relying on anyone to help me. I do reading here and elsewhere and experiment when it seems like a good idea. I really really wish there was someone who knew WTH to do about this illness, but so far there doesn't seem to be anyone.

I did try ldn a couple of times several years ago and each time it did not go well. The last time I ended up watching my living room ceiling leak for 3 days during a major rainstorm (very unusual for where I lived then!) before it occurred to me that perhaps I should do something besides set a large pot on my living room floor. ldn made me quite spacey and as I recall interfered with sleep and yet many here swear by it, so I'm not going to demand any science from them. I'm glad they're having good results. It just wasn't for me. (and I did try very small doses)

About the Perrin Technique - I'm really sorry it did not go well for you and that it was so pricey to boot! I am going to be giving it a try, as best as I am able, because apparently I can get insurance here to cover it. The therapist I'll be seeing is not trained in the Perrin Technique but she is trained in lymphatic drainage and, cranial sacral therapy so I'm hoping she'll be open to learning a little bit how to do the PT. Dr. Ruby Tam in Minnesota is more than willing to talk to her, and my osteopath where I live has given me a referral.

It's an experiment. I don't have science to back it up but hopefully will not cost me too much money.

Also, i can easily understand about the PT making someone feel unwell. I have done a ton of detoxing (the vast majority of it unintentional) and it is always unpleasant. And I know the conventional stance is that detoxing is unproven. Right. Like too much alcohol won't make you sick, right? Anyways -

One last thing - I've had good results with muscle testing done by a competent practitioner. Of course I can't give you science, but I do have my experience - when my health first started to go south and I was hit with severe fatigue of unknown origin (pre-crashing), my doctor gave me Prozac - I hated it, took it for 2 days and stopped. My problem wasn't lack of Prozac. I then saw my chiro who said my adrenals were wiped out. He gave me an adrenal glandular and within about 3 days my energy started coming back. It felt like a miracle. I have many more examples but won't go into it right now.

We're on our own with this hellish illness. Many of us use ourselves as guinea pigs. We often don't have science but given the alternative, no hope, many of us will keep trying, and maybe someone will get lucky.