Thoughts on Suicide — A Dream Experience

[jesse's mom]

I am having a very sensitive day today. This tread helped me to calm down. I appreciate all your thoughts on this topic.

 

[CreativeB]

Sending hugs @jesse's mom

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

“The wheels of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly well”.

"The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine." -- Sextus Empiricus, 3rd Century AD, or CE if you prefer

Thought your post was illuminating, fascinating .... thank you for the open and honest share, helped lift me up out of a night of insomnia and light dozes, interspersed with disturbing dreams that left me with that uneasy, disquieted feeling that all was not well.

Better now. Thank you.

Will come back and post some coping techniques, or possibly avoidance techniques, that I've used successfully in the past, and currently. Most of them stand the test of time. Not sure how deeply they develop the soul, but every day above ground gives us another schoolroom, eh?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Mary I have no idea what edsels are so I must be too young?!!

Thought to be the ugliest car ever made!

Not only the ugliest car ever made, but a stealth bomb that almost brought Ford Motors down, like, terminally.

So no, not a good choice for a metaphorical vehicle, I'd think. But better than a hearse.

Boy, I'm cheery today. I'll leave quietly.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

So rather than the usual attempts to address the neurological issues we have in our brains, my thoughts have turned to moving to a universe in which brains are not necessary!

Book me a room with a view, yes?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

the next spurt of energy I have i want to use to arrange things so that I can pass if I need to... meaning get some affairs in order, and , well...

Have you read Final Exit?

 

[lenora]

Hello everyone.....I can't answer in any particular order b/c somewhere along the way we lost that form. I noticed that Buddhism is the prevailing wisdom most respondents live by. At age 75, I still don't know what to believe and I guess I believe in what has given me the greatest comfort in the past.

I think ME has been a special gift to each of us. It has certainly made life harder, but perhaps not as hard as some illnesses have to those who are afflicted. we owe it to ourselves and whatever our beliefs may be to think and learn from our illness. Learn as much as possible....and realize that the days of a career and getting ahead are behind us. The bigger question is what is in front? I know for sure that I never would have become the woman I am today. I like her better to be perfectly honest....and she has given far more than the woman I would have stayed as if I had remained healthy. I'm just so thankful for what there is that gives me joy....little things that wouldn't have occurred to me in an easier life.

I have found that volunteer work was the way forward for me. Intense, all consuming work that was so needed in the early days (no internet). Even the NIH had no information on my conditions (I have a few, but 3 are major neurological difficulties). I have found peace within this turmoil and have given tremendously (of myself). I can meet death at anytime and know that I did my best.

I have no doubt that I'll have more suffering before this life ends, but I know too many people who have really suffered for all of their lives to be discouraged and feel sorry for myself. Not everyday is an "up" day, I don't mean that....and yes, I'm in a down period at the moment thanks to a bad fall at the beginning of January.

I have far less energy now than I did in my other recoveries. Perhaps this is as far as I'll go.....I don't let it worry me any longer. I can only do my best and be my best. I hope that's enough. Yours, Lenora

As I've said before, my very caring neurologist recently unexpectedly died....I'll never be able to replace him and I know it. I have one-3 meds that I really need, apart from that I'm ready to give it a go with fewer doctors and constant appointments. After all, we don't live forever. No, I don't look at that as suicide, it's just a fact of life.

Be a good and kind person....that's something we can all do and it cost exactly nothing. Make everyone else's life as easy as possible.....pray for those who need/want it and send it into the universe if they don't. It's a positive thing. "Give until it hurts" does not apply to just donations. I take it to mean giving of oneself. It was easier years ago to find groups that needed help, I'll say that....but many are still out there and it will give you great joy. Our family lives by this simple rule....even our working daughters. If people take advantage, that's their responsibility not yours. I just freely give of myself and have found it most rewarding. Yes, it's draining but is also uplifting.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I think ME has been a special gift to each of us.

I've been preaching on this for nearly three years, sometimes to the obvious dismay of some the members responding.

I admit that it's often difficult to find those gifts, and that the search is sometimes like the little kid, all excited on his birthday about a HUUUUGE pile of horse poop. As he enthusiastically digs thru it, someone asks him in surprize why he's so happy .... "Hey with this much horse shit, there's bound to be a pony in there somewhere ...".

It's in there. Somewhere. For me, it was the forced examination of my 'new' life, after the long bewailing of everything that it had taken from me, and what it might have brought with it that was positive.

realize that the days of a career and getting ahead are behind us.

Not necessarily. It's possible to find a new professional focus of some sort if we can heal enough, and maybe the frantic climbing-of-the-corporate-ladder part is over, but the contributing part might be just beginning.

 

[Artemisia]

Why do so called spiritual people think that they have karma and afterlife all figured out? Why are they so sure about these supposed "laws of the universe" that they often refer to with such certainty? Why are they so quick to jump on board with believing and following these "laws?" Is it fear that's driving those decisions to have certain answers for the ultimate mysteries of life? Or is it tradition and the need to feel included? Is it something to do with one's particular brain chemistry? Or is it just an unconscious choice?

What drives people to believe what they do has always fascinated me and it's more interesting to me than the beliefs themselves.

9 years later...

I think some people are innately authoritarian. Some of us aren't. Authoritarians are attracted to religious or spiritual belief systems that insist they have all the answers and everyone else is wrong. When I was a kid this really turned me off about the church I was taken to, and later about the non-religious spiritual traditions I was / am investigating. I always come back to, none of us knows anything.

This is such a good thread, wish these conversations were still going on. Is anyone still here?

 

[lenora]

I, for one, am not certain of anything. I was raised in a mainstream religion (well, two of them) and I always loved the "feeling" of those days. I do not go to church today....but I feel strongly that children should be brought up in some religion. Whether they believe it or not is their business, but it's always good to have a moral code reinforced. That's the main thing...and it gives them something for the hard times in life. If nothing else, it makes it all easier.

I don't know what comes after this life, I've spent a lot of my life trying to make a decision....but I'm constantly questioning everything. I believe in a God, after that, I leave it doing my best in being kind and helping others. I also believe in prayer to help people through difficult trouble. I've had plenty and somehow I make sense of it and only wish I could have helped more.

What are your thoughts? I think a lot of religious thinking depends upon the people we've had in our lives. I've been fortunate and would love to have them all again. But what are the chances? It's all a big ?, isn't it? Yours, Lenora

 

[lenora]

Personally I think those who believe what they've believed since childhood are fortunate, in many ways. I'd like to be that person, but my experiences have led me elsewhere. Still, when all is said and done, it's the music of my childhood, the remembrance of the people involved and some of the beliefs that I hold onto.

In my biological family my mother's religion was looked down upon, shall we say. That later changed, but those days of prejudice remain. My father's religion was definitely the other way. I felt quite comfortable in both since I spent a lot of time with my father's family.

In my present family, my children were raised in my main religion, that of my mother. We attended church each week, since I strongly believe that children need a reinforced normal moral code.

Today those same children have been through almost every religion there is. Right now, our oldest daughter is Methodist and even attends Bible Study (and boy, that's been wonderful! It has actually been good for her), our youngest who never really believed in any of it, doesn't attend any church...but she really did try. Both are in mixed marriages. We have every major religion and then some in the mix that is called our "family." I think as a society we were better off when we did have religion. Something is definitely missing today.

I take a stance of what you do is your business, yes, please pray for me, live by the ten commandments and who has the answer to what comes next? No one, really. We should all do our best, though, that much is a given in any world. But that's just me....what about you?

I'll just add this: One of the most perplexed people I've ever known was a Presbyterian Minister (graduate of Harvard Theology Dept.) who broke out in hives each week. It soon occurred to him that he simply couldn't give sermons about something he didn't believe. He then became a psychiatrist. A very good one and retired as an old man. We had many interesting conversations as we were friends. I'm still good friends with his former wife, and she said that every day and night until the very night he died, he was reading Theology books looking for "the" answer. He had done this his entire life. So it's not by choice that we don't believe....it just doesn't happen to us. Thus we're quite accepting as we know it's hard to find answers ourselves. Certain things we can all do for each other and should. Everyone needs help along the way, that's prayer, and those who need other things that we can provide should be able to count on them also. Anyway, may each of you find peace. Yours, Lenora

 

[Artemisia]

Having had a major near-death experience back in 1979, caused by a lightning strike, I can honestly say that I found being out of my body to the point of being nearly dead to be an extremely pleasant and peaceful experience. Returning to my sick body and facing the damage done to it was, in contrast, a huge and frightening disappointment. If I could do it over, knowing how many decades of ill health I would face after that, I am pretty sure I would not have willed myself back into my physical body with such determination. Oh well... hindsight is 20/20 and it's too late for a redo now!

Hi, I know this is an old comment but was wondering if you developed ME/CFS as a result of the lightning strike? Or did you have it prior to that event?

 

[Artemisia]

Cosmologist Max Tegmark once said something really fascinating about the nature of our universe: apparently if the minus sign in front of the time term in the equation that cosmologists use to describe our universe had been a plus sign instead, we would not be living in this state of existence where we are unable to know anything about the future (apart from the educated guesses and predictions that our minds are capable of making of the future).

Max Tegmark said that if we lived in a universe that had a plus sign instead, we would have full knowledge of the future. We would be able to see the future. Max Tegmark pointed out, with a grin on his face, that in such a universe we would not even need a brain! A brain is only a necessary piece of equipment in our universe, because we can never know the future, so we rely on the information processing in our brains which tries to predict the future, for survival reasons.

It all sounds quite surreal I know, but it's interesting to contemplate that the reason we cannot banish suffering from this world is because our universe does not have the right laws of physics necessary to establish a paradisiacal state of existence with no suffering.

So interesting to consider this. Thanks for the food for thought... that maybe suffering exists because we live in a realm where the physics doesn't allow for a better existence.

 

[Artemisia]

. It soon occurred to him that he simply couldn't give sermons about something he didn't believe. He then became a psychiatrist. A very good one and retired as an old man. We had many interesting conversations as we were friends. I'm still good friends with his former wife, and she said that every day and night until the very night he died, he was reading Theology books looking for "the" answer. He had done this his entire life. So it's not by choice that we don't believe....it just doesn't happen to us.

That shows integrity, to step down. A lot of people would just double down and deny they have doubts.

I tried hard to find God in church as a child, wanted to feel her there like so many other people evidently did, but I never felt anything. I found her in nature, in singing and in movement. Now those activities are often lost to me and I struggle to feel that connection, though I do sometimes when I can shut my worrying mind off for a bit.

 

[Wayne]

I struggle to feel that connection, though I do sometimes when I can shut my worrying mind off for a bit.

Hi @Artemisia -- Your comment reminds me of a story I shared in this post.

I found her in nature, in singing and in movement. Now those activities are often lost to me and I struggle to feel that connection...

Makes me wonder if you might find the links in my signature interesting. They describe how singing a spiritual mantra HU can bring all kinds of benefits. I've used it myself for decades, and gives me a sense of connection I've not been able to find elsewhere. Just thought I'd pass it along....

 

[Artemisia]

Makes me wonder if you might find the links in my signature interesting.

Thanks Wayne! I watched the videos. I'm familiar with chanting Aum but this feels different. The internet says it's a Sufi tradition (?)

Is it pronounced like the words "who" or "hue"?

Don't have the energy to sing anything for 20 min but I'll try it silently.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

every day and night until the very night he died, he was reading Theology books looking for "the" answer. He had done this his entire life. So it's not by choice that we don't believe....it just doesn't happen to us

Interestingly, I remember reading some years back that the ability to truly believe unreservedly may be related to a small island somewhere in the frontal lobes of the cortex and the ancient limbic part of the human brain and that it's genetic. You're born with it or you're not.

Religion can be learned, but true belief is inherent ..... some of us have it, many of us don;t. And so we spend our lives beating ourselves up because we question and search and somehow can never reach that beatific place that others seem able to access effortlessly, without conscious thought. It's just .... there.

I also agree wholeheartedly with you about the need for some sort of basic and ongoing religious focus and discipline for children. Like you said, they can believe or not, choice is theirs, but the ethical shaping that it gives to the mind and the soul are invaluable thru-out life ....

I was raised in a humanist more or less Episcopalian family, in a mostly Catholic country, and went, briefly, to a Catholic school before being transferred to a multinational secular lyceum, where we wore atttractive uniforms and rarely spoke of God .... it took me a half a lifetime to weave together my own understanding of what I believe, and I can;t help but think from time to time, as another tidal wave of Fate's Fury knocks me to my knees and beyond, how much easier it all would be if those belief systems had been instilled earlier ....

Interestingly, they found a smaller area of the brain that controls religiious fanaticism, the kind that can;t tolerate anyone who doesnt believe as they do, and would rather dispatch them, painlessly or otherwise, to the God of their perfervid belief.

It makes it really hard to be comfortably judgey, tho most of us manage it fairly effortlessly (giving myself the side eye here) .....


on the Father Savanarola level