Thiol sensitivities, cutler and shade protocol, CBS/SOD/SUOX/BHMT?

[Sam7777]

 

[picante]

@Sam7777, I downloaded that very graphic from a PDF file online, and have been staring at it blankly.

What have you learned from it? Has it given you any new insights?

 

[Sam7777]

The three main arguments of the graphic via Shade seem to center on what the IMD and the clear way cofactors works along with his argument about reducing small intestinal gut inflammation.

I'm thinking that the herbs in clear way cofactors that are effective are mainly the bacopa, gotu kola, but especially the triphala.

I think diet especially is under estimated, because some people just stay inflamed by things. I'm certainly one of those people just about I'd argue. The most extreme case is probably to become a whole food vegan, but I have mixed feelings about that.

 

[Violeta]

Yes, the FMN is helping a lot. My eyes were actually worse for a couple of days, though. That happened when I started taking the B2, too, though.

The Source Naturals R-5'-P tastes terrible, I may try Douglas Labs next. A whole cap of Douglas Labs is only 10mg?

I should probably start trying to take some niacin, too.

I don't understand the whole thioredoxin, thioredoxin reductase, NADPH thing either. I just keep reading and then sooner or later it breaks through.

This paper says that selenium can be a limiting factor, too. I know I'm terribly deficient in selenium, and that might be why I was so mercury toxic. Either that, or visa versa. But I think we talked about this before.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1220815/

PS: Good for you that you can handle eggs and swiss chard!

Does anyone else tend towards low body temp? I added small amounts of broccoli, cauliflower, and then an egg a day for three days in a row, and have hardly been able to take care of myself. I thought taking adequate FMN would make it doable, but just realized my awful exhaustion is from those foods. I took my temp and it was down to 97.2. I took 100mcg of selenium and my temp went up to 98.2 in about a half hour!

 

[picante]

Does anyone else tend towards low body temp?

Of course I do -- I'm hypothyroid. I've tracked my temps often, and before starting T3, I was usually in the 96 to low 97 range. Now I'm usually in the 98.0 - 99.0 range.

You've already identified isothiocyanates as a problem. Have you had a look at the whole category of goitrogens? That sounds like the culprit, rather than thiols in general. You could always try an experiment, and drop the cruciferous vegetables, while continuing with the egg.

Are you doing a thyroid treatment of any kind?

BTW, my thyroid function did not improve on dessicated pig thyroid; I had to take T3-only to get any improvement. That's what happens if you have a problem converting T4 to T3. Many of us at PR have low glutathione levels, and glutathione is needed for that conversion.

 

[Violeta]

Of course I do -- I'm hypothyroid. I've tracked my temps often, and before starting T3, I was usually in the 96 to low 97 range. Now I'm usually in the 98.0 - 99.0 range.

You've already identified isothiocyanates as a problem. Have you had a look at the whole category of goitrogens? That sounds like the culprit, rather than thiols in general. You could always try an experiment, and drop the cruciferous vegetables, while continuing with the egg.

Are you doing a thyroid treatment of any kind?

BTW, my thyroid function did not improve on dessicated pig thyroid; I had to take T3-only to get any improvement. That's what happens if you have a problem converting T4 to T3. Many of us at PR have low glutathione levels, and glutathione is needed for that conversion.

Yes, I have looked at the whole list of goitrogens, I was trialing the broccoli and cauliflower to see if the B2 would make them acceptable for me.

I will try the eggs again after things settle down. And I'll take a better look at thiols to see if thiols in general are the problem.

No, no thyroid treatment. Taking dessicated thyroid didn't help me, either. I don't go to a doctor, so I don't get T3, but the conversion of T4 to T3 is my issue, too. I can see by the almost instantaneous improvement from 100mcg of selenium, and I suppose continue to avoid goitrogens, that that should be enough for me. My temp is now up to 98.4.

"Selenium is a key element in regenerating glutathione."

Life is an experiment.

 

[picante]

No, no thyroid treatment.

Actually, selenium and iodine together is a thyroid treatment recommended by Dr. David Brownstein. You don't need a prescription for either one. But look at Brownstein's recommendations before you try it. Guy Abraham is another doc to read on iodine.

Iodine can pull toxic halides (fluoride, bromide, perchlorate) out of the tissues. We had perchlorate (rocket fuel) in our drinking water when I was a kid. Iodine is the only thing that can detox perchlorate from the body. But depending on your level of exposure, it may be wise to go slowly!

 

[picante]

Sorry, @Sam7777, the issue of goitrogens vs. thiols seems like a detour on this thread.

For myself, I'm still experimenting to see whether my sensitivity is really to thiols or to something in animal proteins (perhaps tyramine).

I'm thinking that the herbs in clear way cofactors that are effective are mainly the bacopa, gotu kola, but especially the triphala.

Why those, do you think? (I wouldn't dare try anything with as many ingredients as Clear Way Cofactors.)

 

[Violeta]

Actually, selenium and iodine together is a thyroid treatment recommended by Dr. David Brownstein. You don't need a prescription for either one. But look at Brownstein's recommendations before you try it. Guy Abraham is another doc to read on iodine.

Iodine can pull toxic halides (fluoride, bromide, perchlorate) out of the tissues. We had perchlorate (rocket fuel) in our drinking water when I was a kid. Iodine is the only thing that can detox perchlorate from the body. But depending on your level of exposure, it may be wise to go slowly!

Yes, I have read about Brownstein's protocol. I try to take iodine in the form of seaweed. So I guess I do have a thyroid protocol treatment, just need to get consistent with it and not throw in any wrenches.

Do you have a list of thiols that aren't goitrogens? What specific thiols that aren't goitrogens are you thinking about?

Would this list of foods high in thiols be adequate?
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

And does anyone else have a problem with goitrogens?

 

[picante]

Would this list of foods high in thiols be adequate?
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

That's the one I would use, and just delete all the goitrogens and anything else you don't tolerate. It's just an experiment I thought of, to see whether thiols really are a problem for you.

 

[Violeta]

That's the one I would use, and just delete all the goitrogens and anything else you don't tolerate. It's just an experiment I thought of, to see whether thiols really are a problem for you.

Which of the things on the list bother you? Does one have to be bothered by all of them to have a problem with thiols?

I see quite a few that aren't on a goitrogen list that do bother me, and eggs specifically do bother me, I had to quit them when I hadn't had any goitrogens for a long time. There are some that don't bother me, though, such as raw milk and cream.

 

[picante]

@Violeta, let's talk about it via PM, shall we? I'm not sure this is where @Sam7777 wanted this thread to go, that's all. I'll get back to you tomorrow, I expect.

 

[Violeta]

Oh, so sorry. That's okay, we can just drop it.

 

[picante]

I've recently found this study, which was in vitro, looking at the effects of mercury compounds on glutaredoxin and thioredoxin: Inhibition of the human thioredoxin system. A molecular mechanism of mercury toxicity.

Overall, mercury inhibition was selective toward the thioredoxin system. In particular, the remarkable potency of the mercury compounds to bind to the selenol-thiol in the active site of TrxR should be a major molecular mechanism of mercury toxicity.

This study is similar: Biomarkers of Adverse Response to Mercury: Histopathology versus Thioredoxin Reductase Activity

Selenols (–SeH) have a lower pKa than thiols (5.3 versus 8.5) and under physiological conditions are fully ionized to selenolates (–Se−) and thus are more reactive and can easily interact with mercury [28]. Selenoenzymes such as glutathione peroxidases (GPxs) are good targets for mercury [29–32] but, recently [28], the involvement of the thioredoxin system – comprising thioredoxin (Trx), the selenoenzyme thioredoxin reductase (TrxR) and NADPH – in the molecular mechanism of mercury toxicity was proven. The inhibitory effects of mercurials on the thioredoxin system have been shown both in vitro [28, 33] and in vivo [4, 34, 35]. Thioredoxin reductase is particularly sensitive to mercurials which results from its highly nucleophylic structure.

[In this quote I changed "on" to "in" because it's a grammatical error that could cause confusion. And I'm a compulsive editor.]