The Team of Doctors and Biohackers Who Seem to Be Successfully Treating “Long Covid”

splusholia

Senior Member
Messages
205
Likes
541
Messages
3,342
Likes
6,889
Location
Japan
I wonder if this means that niacin is better than nicotinomide riboside for ME patients, too? I was thinking of trying the NR, but not sure now o_O
I've had great results from NR and NMN. I started several months prior to contracting Covid-19, it may have saved my life. It definitely has been helpful and I continue to show signs of increased NAD+ levels.

Trimethylglycine seems to be important too for avoiding methylation issues, I didn't do so well on NR without it.

@Learner1 could probably give you more information about NAD+ though.
 

splusholia

Senior Member
Messages
205
Likes
541
I've had great results from NR and NMN. I started several months prior to contracting Covid-19, it may have saved my life. It definitely has been helpful and I continue to show signs of increased NAD+ levels.

Trimethyglycine seems to be important too for avoiding methylation issues, I didn't do so well on NR without it.

@Learner1 could probably give you more information about NAD+ though.
Thanks for this input! Very helpful. I have about three different types of NAD+ related stuff in my basket but can’t decide which to try!

This article is very interesting to me because before I got ill, for about two months, I had symptoms of very high histamine and low serotonin. Only I didn’t realise this was what it was at the time. It seemed absolutely bonkers to me (I was flushing red all the time; thought I was going mad), but this explains it quite well. I also had an episode of severe depression despite having no previous mental health problems. It was awful. Very physical. I became freezing cold and life seemed pointless. Thankfully it passed! Then I developed full-blown severe M.E. and all the fun that brings! :xpem:
 
Messages
253
Likes
496
@Littleantlers did your histamine issues stop right when you got sick? And the strong symptoms you think were low seratonin stopped as well? I wonder what that means. Do you have any ideas?

I don't understand why anyone would take niacin for mast cell activation syndrome, like that doctor in the article treats it with. I mean... It's the opposite. So I want to understand. I avoid niacin because I have mcas and it is completely dangerous for those with severe enough mcas where anaphylaxis might follow from a large amount of histamine, and inappropriate for those with moderate like me, but... what's the logic? Is it being suggested that one "push through" the symptoms from niacin in order to receive a significant benefit for mast cell activation? Just previous to where they mentioned that doctor treating with it, they said that histamine release would be a bigger problem for those already suffering mast cell activation as a downstream effect of other illness. So yeah. I'd like to know the relationship of NAD+ injections to mast cell activation as well. The author says that for the purposes of helping covid and long covid that it's nicotinamide that serves that purpose, not the other forms, some of which can be problematic (in general or for this? I don't know). But I'm just curious about NAD+ injections to see if they might be usable for me for low seratonin issues. If anyone has a theory of how nicotinamide would possibly assist instead of worsen mcas or the relationship of the nac+ form to mast cell activation, would love to hear. Again, it is dangerous in the case of severe mcas.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,176
Likes
11,318
Location
Pacific Northwest
@Martin aka paused||M.E. Thanks for posting the article and videos. Very interesting. I note the FDA went after a NAD+ manufacturer recently for advertising it as a COVID treatment...

One thing that I didn't see discussed was that any form of niacin can reverse methylation, so might be wise to take some methylfolate, MB12 and co-factors if one tries this. I also don't see why taking NAD+ or NMN are not recommend. If it's a shortage of NAD+ they directly raise NAD+ levels and help SIRT1, and can recycle into other forms of niacin in the body. The one I wouldn't recommend is NR. Itvtahes too many steps to convert sndcforsnt work at all on folks with certain fairly common genetic mutations.

Trimethylglycine seems to be important too for avoiding methylation issues, I didn't do so well on NR without it.
it's because it reverses methylation. TMG provides methyl groups. I suspect raising folate, MB12 and co-factors would help, too.
I don't understand why anyone would take niacin for mast cell activation syndrome, like that doctor in the article treats it with. I mean... It's the opposite. So I want to understand. I avoid niacin because I have mcas and it is completely dangerous for those with severe enough mcas where anaphylaxis might follow from a large amount of histamine, and inappropriate for those with moderate like me, but... what's the logic? Is it being suggested that one "push through" the symptoms from niacin in order to receive a significant benefit for mast cell activation?
I have MCAS and have had no problem at all with mast cells taking NR, NADH, NAD+, or NMN. Why do you think they'd a problem?

I stay away from niacin as I do well with NMN or NR, and don't need the flushing or to reduce methyl groups.

I'd like to know the relationship of NAD+ injections to mast cell activation as well. The author says that for the purposes of helping covid and long covid that it's nicotinamide that serves that purpose, not the other forms, some of which can be problematic (in general or for this? I don't know). But I'm just curious about NAD+ injections to see if they might be usable for me for low seratonin issues. If anyone has a theory of how nicotinamide would possibly assist instead of worsen mcas or the relationship of the nac+ form to mast cell activation, would love to hear. Again, it is dangerous in the case of severe mcas.
With severe MCAS, it would be wise to improve gut health, to treat any oxalate problems, and to be on a full spectrum of mast cell support - quercetin, curcumin, cromolyn sodium, H1 and H2 antihistamines, imatinib, etc.

Ive had several NAD IVs and would definitely not recommend them for anyone with severe MCAS. They are the harshest IV I've done, upsetting my stomach, causing diarrhea and severe headache and pain in my forearms. The aftereffects were fantastic, lasting 36 hours, but there's a risk vs benefit decision. I find using sublingual NMN or NAD+ to be much easier tolerated and controlled. There are tablets that can be made smaller, powder, and nasal spray that might be better options - they don't set off my mast cells.
I tried that protocol when it came out in November and nothing of note. The selenium made me feel worse and everything else was no impact.
I'm on something similar, individualized for my needs. Each of us has different biochemistry, do you may need more or less of things than others. Fir example, I need 3g a day of vitamin C, taken in 2g doses, and 60mg zinc picolinate a day.

Selenium is used for 2 important things in addition to others. It's important for the thyroid:

"Selenium and Your Thyroid: What You Should Know" https://www.verywellhealth.com/selenium-and-your-thyroid-4134998

And, it's needed to make glutathione. Making more glutathione can mobilize toxins like heavy metals, mycotoxins, etc. which can make you feel pretty bad if your transsulfuration pathway doesn't have enough B2 and molybdenum to flush them out.
 

splusholia

Senior Member
Messages
205
Likes
541
Does anybody know if Mutaflor boosts NAD+? I’ve heard it mentioned, but can’t find anything written about it...
 
Messages
48
Likes
69
Location
Somerset, UK

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,176
Likes
11,318
Location
Pacific Northwest
It can go through membranes.

"Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide is transported into mammalian mitochondria | eLife" https://elifesciences.org/articles/33246

"Our results challenge the long-held view that the mitochondrial inner membrane is impermeable to pyridine nucleotides and suggest the existence of an unrecognized mammalian NAD (or NADH) transporter"

And this has further discussion:

"NMN, NAD+ and the Plasma Membrane | Lifespan.io" https://www.lifespan.io/news/nmn-crosses-cell-membrane/

And NMN is transported as well:

"Slc12a8 is a nicotinamide mononucleotide transporter | Nature Metabolism" https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-018-0009-4?WT.feed_name=subjects_proteins

"Our work identifies a specific NMN transporter and demonstrates that Slc12a8 has a critical role in regulating intestinal NAD+ metabolism."

Can I ask in what way it helped you? Does it just improve energy or does it help with pain, immunity, etc?

"NADH, short for nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, is an important pyridine nucleotide that functions as an oxidative cofactor in eukaryotic cells. NADH plays a key role in the production of energy through redox reactions. NAD serves as a cofactor for dehydrogenases, reductases and hydroxylases, making it a major carrier of H+ and e- in major metabolic pathways such as glycolysis, the triacarboxylic acid cycle, fatty acid synthesis and sterold synthesis.

...

NAD participates in many redox reactions in cells, including those in glycolysis and most of the reactions in the citric acid cycle of cellular respiration. This site shows three examples of oxidoreductase enzymes (an oxidase that uses molecular oxygen as the electron acceptor) that use NAD as a cofactor to catalyze a dehydration reaction"

"Introduction to NAD/NADH" https://www.chem.uwec.edu/webpapers2001/clareymm/pages/intro/nadintro.html
 

bertiedog

Senior Member
Messages
1,686
Likes
3,246
Location
South East England, UK
've had great results from NR and NMN. I started several months prior to contracting Covid-19, it may have saved my life. It definitely has been helpful and I continue to show signs of increased NAD+ levels.
I have only taken half a capsule, which is around 250 mg a few times and it has very negatively affected my sleep so I cannot continue with it. Any supplement that has the benefit of extra energy does this to me unfortunately making it impossible for me to drop off to sleep so I have to resort to a tiny bit of clonanzapan otherwise no sleep before 4 am or later and then the next day I feel like a zombie.

Pam