The shot gun approach- mitochondrial/ methylation/ antoxidants

[Rand56]

Hi Heaps

I have also read where there is debate on whether the loading phase on creatine is necessary or not. Could possibly just have been marketing hype for all I know. I'm sure hard core bodybuilders would probably agree for the most part that loading is necessary, since most have probably done that, but it would scare me too much to take too much of it and risk kidney function.

 

[Sherlock]

i think the loading phase is now debatable from what ihave read, they say if u use the same dose from the start you will reach saturation point within a short time anyway. They saythe idea of a loading phase was that the supplement companies sold more???

I agree completely with that, from my own experience

and 5g per day is sufficient for me

 

[Sherlock]

the creatine improves my feeling within a few hours of taking it

hmmm... from today's research, I'd say that it's possible that ATP (adenosine triphosphate) can have many effects because it is converted to cyclic adenosine monophosphate -- the famous cAMP which is involved in very many cell processes. ATP is not for energy alone.

 

[Sherlock]

Rust i think iherb looks like the best priced for creatine.

iHerb had/has some offer about $5 off first order, I can try to look it up if anybody's interested

 

[heapsreal]

D-ribose had no effect on me either. Too expensive of a supplement for me to continue with it. I assumed since it didn't have any effect, waiting to see if it would have an effect would be pointless since I'm assuming if one were to have an effect, it would be more immediate.

hi rand,
im not certain ribose has helped but i have noticed a dip in energy a week after running out. Its hard to say if its the ribose or not or just a normal dip in energy that anyone would have. But im going to try it again and take a break after each tub i use and try and see if i get the same response. I dont find it works immediately i think it just creeped up on me and when i stop using it, it slowly creeps away if that makes sense.

I think with some supps we have to stop start with them to see if they are helping us as well as maybe we can get a tolerance to their effects as well. we are our own lab rats

 

[Allyson]

D ribose actually takes about 2 weeks to take effect in some people ac to dr teitelbaum,
For me, I noticed the effect within two days and take it all the time now
Apparently it gives some people more energy; i have never noted that effect on me alas, wha t i got was relief from the constant muscle aches all over my body, so I take it for that.
Can too much creatind cause kidney damage?

 

[Sherlock]

D ribose actually takes about 2 weeks to take effect in some people ac to dr teitelbaum,
For me, I noticed the effect within two days and take it all the time now
Apparently it gives some people more energy; i have never noted that effect on me alas, wha t i got was relief from the constant muscle aches all over my body, so I take it for that.
Can too much creatind cause kidney damage?

Ally, did you find any similar benefit from foods said to contain the most ribose? Liver, beef, dark meat chicken, almonds, cheese? Do you find that those foods have any special appeal to you?

Btw, I've never tried ribose, though I can say that I've never gotten more energy from creatine, whether pre-CFS or now.

(Here is the study from the Dr. Teitelbaum that Ally must be referring to: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17109576)

RESULTS:

D-ribose, which was well-tolerated, resulted in a significant improvement in all five visual analog scale (VAS) categories: energy; sleep; mental clarity; pain intensity; and well-being, as well as an improvement in patients' global assessment. Approximately 66% of patients experienced significant improvement while on D-ribose, with an average increase in energy on the VAS of 45% and an average improvement in overall well-being of 30% (p < 0.0001).

and his newsletter:
http://www.endfatigue.com/web-newsletters/Newsletter_3_questions_d-ribose.html

[edit: and Teitelbaum's followup multicenter ribose study posted about here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...y-61-in-cfs-and-fibromyalgia-patients.18498/]

 

[Allyson]

sherlock I always fee better the next day after eating beef or ifsh or high protein meat for one or t2 meals; not sure why but that is pretty much a given; if i could stick to that daily I would
love cheese but on a dairy free diet whigh is helping somewhat
love almonds and eat a lot of them but note no bnenfits really
you gotta try d ribose - by one tub from iherb for 27 dollars and finish the tub and you wull know by theni if it is gonna help
if you have aching muscles it is priceless
and if it is there is a chance it will help your energy give it a shot

the trifecta is d ribose, creatine and l carnitine with ALA in there somewhere

that said ai still find being upright - eg a long walk - will make me crash the nextday but creatine is helping cure the crashes as did oxygen and compression clothing.
i need to get back to the gy m for some horizonatal weight work and aqua to see how i go with exercise without standing up.
usually i have ti increase my d ribose after exercise or the aches come back
it tastes exactly like sugar btw- which it is a sugar derived from corn

 

[Allyson]

Can too much creatine cause kidney damage? did someone say?

And actually i read about dribose in Dr Teietlebaums book - from fatigued to fantastic - which is extremely comprehensive and a really good and easy and interesting read. He has ME himself so i trust him.
Plus he starts with a sincere apology from medical profession to ME patients which was lovely.

 

[heapsreal]

the trifecta is d ribose, creatine and l carnitine with ALA in there somewhere
Dont forget Q10

 

[Allyson]

well i am finding a definite imporvement in my mood after taking creatine Rand so that is interesting adn I was not looking for that - i just thought i had more energy so I was feeling better.

 

[Allyson]

yep you are quite right Heaps i take co q 10 too ; not sure how much it works i only take 2 dcaps a day and should take more i think but it is expensive and i get so sick of swallowig handfuls of pills....

2 of these on empty stomach
6 of these with sugary drink
4 of these with meal trwice a day
2 of these after meals three times a day
3 o f these before bedtime
2 of these on awakening
.....you need to be a mathematician to keep up with them all ...lmao!

 

[Rand56]

well i am finding a definite imporvement in my mood after taking creatine Rand so that is interesting adn I was not looking for that - i just thought i had more energy so I was feeling better.

hi Allyson

It's great the extra creatine improves your mood. I guess maybe in part it could have something to do with sparing some SAM-e or maybe it's just from the creatine alone. That's why I posed my question in my previous post about the SAM-e and creatine and maybe someone smarter than me can weigh in on it.

As far as your question about creatine's effect on the kidneys, I have just always heard that taking "too much" can tax the kidneys more. What "too much" is I suppose would be different for each individual. Maybe that is not really the case especially if one is drinking enough fluids to keep the kidneys flushed out. I don't know and also maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can weigh in on this too.

 

[heapsreal]

i think as far as creatine and kidneys go, i think creatine can cause a false reading in some of the blood chemistry in reguards to kidney function but 'apparently' this isnt suppose to harm the kidneys. If creatine is stopped these blood tests return to normal quickly. So its not a problem of affecting the kidneys but more a problem of making the kidney function tests inaccurate??? I think a few bodybuilders in the past freaked their doctors out with theur blood tests until they realised it was creatine they were taking causing the tests to be inaccurate??

 

[Rand56]

hi Heaps

You may very well be right about that. I think one thing people should caution themselves on, knowing that creatine can move water into muscle tissue, dehydration can be a concern and that in itself isn't exactly peachy for the kidneys. I guess that's why they say you should make sure and drink more water when taking creatine, and if someone is doing that, then that's cool.

 

[Allyson]

Thansk Rand, Heaps and eveyone who has weighed in.
well my sleep is improving every night, deeper, longer better.
And I am starting to wake up feelinhg normal for the first time in ages; was up and out last 2-3 days or part of and though ai am still taking it easy I have not crashed and do not feel terrible; so no crashes touch wood.
It is now a month since i started CREATINE though i increased my l carnitine dose 2 weeks a go and likewise for glutamine; aND I AM PROBABLY TAKING A BIT MORE D Ribose than i was before.
I am still taking IM vitamin b 12 but the thing that has really made the huge difference for me is the creatine powder - more so than the caps.
]Lets hope it stays this way and is not just a remission; this is by far am the best I have felt in many months, have been up most of the day and walked 20 minsw to the shops twice today !!!
thanks again everyone for the inpot - would love to hear if creatine helps anyone else.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Great news! Sleep is SO important! I hope it continues, at least MOST of your nights. I usually sleep fine, but like everyone, some nights just aren't as good. Last night hubby and I heard a noise. So strange. Everything was fine, but that messed up our sleep and he is healthy.

 

[Allyson]

Hi Sally, thanks and yes I spoke too soon; I did not sleep at all well last night ; forgot to put my earplugs in didn t help - they really mjake a differenct .
Then I woke up feeling crashed;
Somewhere there is a place where people can keep on line diaries for ME; does anyone have the link? I am interested in tracing and recording the anatomy of a crash - eg sugar cravings then binge, lack of sleep ( ? due to adrenaline), sore feet that feel llike they need a massage- (due to fluid retention/extraviasation), may be precursors and early signs of a crash for me.
Yep I spent too much time upright yesterday - should have gone to shops on my bike instead of walking.
Also i had decreased my creatine dose to 4 caps 3 times a day; so back up to 6 caps today.
Then l carnitine, fluids and creatine have pulled me back from feeling so terrible now and I am resting comfortably again.

 

[Allyson]

And yes Rand thanks drining more water witht he creatine is a good idea - i do notice being thirsty at night but hard to say if any worse than usual; i should try and drink more early in the day to cover it.

 

[Allyson]

hmmm just remembered I started on Dexamphetamine the other day too so may be that had something to do with feeling cured. i only took it fo one day as I fear the crash and burn it may cause and I wanted to see how the creatine was doing but relise i had left it out of the picture; i will stay off the dexamphetamine for a while and give the creatine a go then reintroduce it later if still needed.