The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[PDXhausted]

B.Infantis is pretty hard to find and it seems 90%+ of probiotics on the market do not contain it. So check your bottles.

Gestalt- Have you looked into Align probiotics? It's a B. Infantis strain and widely available in the U.S... Not sure about Canada though, but I imagine you could order it through US websites, unless there is some restriction I'm not aware of. But thought I'd throw this out there for US people who are interested in this species.

http://www.aligngi.com/

 

[brenda]

I decided to go hyper cautious and started four days ago on a quarter teaspoon in water first thing. Tomorrow will up to half. I think that sleep quality has marginally improved and a feeling of relaxation is present. Gas on first day but that has lessened. I have a positive feeling about this.

 

[Gestalt]

Hmm isn´t trying to influence serotonin (increase? affect the receptors or related genes?) with probiotics a bit far fetched? If I was to try to something for serotonin I would not go that route. I would try herbs probably, maybe supplements and rarely medication.

95% of the bodies serotonin is produced in the gut with the assistance of Bifido.Infantis. If taking RS can increase populations of bifido 11x fold, then this will probably have a significant effect. in addition many studies show B.Infantis has anti-depressant effects. Did you not read the previous post??!?!?

 

[Beyond]

I tend to skip lengthful posts But I had a look now.

What I am saying, this is quite a change of paradigm. Psychiatrists prescribe drugs that affect serotonin, and not only its production, alternative doctors prescribe supplements and herbals that do the same. I thought that is strange to expect gut flora to help significantly with serotonin when almost no one is trying that. But maybe they are wrong, or lack information. If you have, say, depression, almost no specialist will suggest B. Infantis or RS, and you won´t see people in forums either trying it.

 

[Christopher]

Let's not also forget that gut disruption is an effect of chronic retroviral infection (HIV).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17720995

 

[Gestalt]

I tend to skip lengthful posts But I had a look now.

What I am saying, this is quite a change of paradigm. Psychiatrists prescribe drugs that affect serotonin, and not only its production, alternative doctors prescribe supplements and herbals that do the same. I thought that is strange to expect gut flora to help significantly with serotonin when almost no one is trying that. But maybe they are wrong, or lack information. If you have, say, depression, almost no specialist will suggest B. Infantis or RS, and you won´t see people in forums either trying it.

You can't expect people to take you seriously if you skip reading things in a thread. I see you post many questions on this forum that have been answered only a few posts prior.

And, yes it's a paradigm shift, hence why all the excitement. The modern medical system, and most of the alternative healthcare system is quite far behind and will be in the near future.

 

[Christopher]

You can't expect people to take you seriously if you skip reading things in a thread. I see you post many questions on this forum that have been answered only a few posts prior.

And, yes it's a paradigm shift, hence why all the excitement. The modern medical system, and most of the alternative healthcare system is quite far behind and will be far the near future.

Did you really just insult a fellow patient's cognitive dysfunction? Which probiotics help with empathy?

 

[Gestalt]

Did you really just insult a fellow patient's cognitive dysfunction? Which probiotics help with empathy?

No, I'm just annoyed when people take statements of mine and "skip" the context provided for them and then question them. Frankly it's disrespectful imo.

 

[Ripley]

Prevotella spp. enterotype has been
associated with high-carbohydrate diets 29

It's a common misconception, but not entirely accurate. Jeff Leach of the American Gut Project has shown, rather convincingly, that it's not carbohydrates that bloom Prevotella, but rather it's just "whole grains" that promote Prevotella (that's what they eat). Even Jeff eats lots of starchy tubers and has barely any Prevotella.

http://humanfoodproject.com/from-me...t-time-to-trade-in-your-george-foreman-grill/

 

[Beyond]

I didn´t felt insulted (although the post was insulting and false regarding me and my silly questions) and I agree with what he says theorically, one needs to read things first if wants to discuss them. I just didn´t find anything in your posts proving that probiotics are the future of psychiatry lol.

My skepticism regarding using probiotics as a primary therapy for mental problems is not foolish, or is it? The gut affects the brain and viceversa, but for neurological problems is the gut the first place to target for therapy? Or is the brain a more logical target for treatment? I don´t know the answer but my take is that the brain needs direct treatment besides healing the gut.

 

[Ripley]

if it is beneficial for the small bowel (in my opinion what most people here have worst) I haven´t yet found proof of that.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1183348/

The study shows that pathogens/microbes/bacteria glom onto the RS granules (i.e. as they make their way to the colon). This could have a "cleansing" effect in the small intestine as it goes down.

Interestingly, the study said that the presence of sugar with the RS might prevent microbes from attaching to the granules.

 

[Ripley]

My skepticism regarding using probiotics as a primary therapy for mental problems is not foolish, or is it?

There is plenty of medical literature of a gut/brain connection. Most doctors are unaware of it though. Also, we are generally talking about prebiotics (probiotics are just used as a seed). Prebiotics are far more effective for re-populating the gut flora than probiotics are.

http://pmid.us/20920376

That's what makes this different than just taking probiotics.

 

[Christopher]

I didn´t felt insulted (although the post was insulting and false regarding me and my silly questions) and I agree with what he says theorically, one needs to read things first if wants to discuss them. I just didn´t find anything in your posts proving that probiotics are the future of psychiatry lol.

My skepticism regarding using probiotics as a primary therapy for mental problems is not foolish, or is it? The gut affects the brain and viceversa, but for neurological problems is the gut the first place to target for therapy? Or is the brain a more logical target for treatment? I don´t know the answer but my take is that the brain needs direct treatment besides healing the gut.

Yes, but it is much easier to directly access and manipulate the gut environment versus the neurological system.

 

[Beyond]

I hope that healing the gut has a significant impact in the brain. Time will tell because I am treating my gut and I have so called "mental problems" that are comorbid with digestive problems. I had the mental problems way before any digestive symptom though...

I just got stuck with the thought that taking Bifido for serotonin was strange. A reactionary thought, perhaps.

 

[xjhuez]

but for neurological problems is the gut the first place to target for therapy? Or is the brain a more logical target for treatment? I don´t know the answer but my take is that the brain needs direct treatment besides healing the gut.

Depends where the source of the problem is located. In my case, serum ammonia was wreaking havoc in my brain and causing all sorts of 'neurological' issues. Turns out neutralizing it in my gut was the answer.

 

[Christopher]

I'm taking this alongside RS for now.

 

[Christopher]

Depends where the source of the problem is located. In my case, serum ammonia was wreaking havoc in my brain and causing all sorts of 'neurological' issues. Turns out neutralizing it in my gut was the answer.

Are you aware that increasing bifido strains theoretically may also reduce ammonia? Also, may I ask how you reduced serum ammonia?

 

[Ripley]

I hope that healing the gut has a significant impact in the brain. Time will tell because I am treating my gut and I have so called "mental problems" that are comorbid with digestive problems. I had the mental problems way before any digestive symptom though...

I just got stuck with the thought that taking Bifido for serotonin was strange. A reactionary thought, perhaps.

The gut and brain are heavily connected. Here's a great podcast episode that talks about this connection:

The Healthy Skeptic: Episode 9 – the “gut-brain axis”

So, there's a real connection there.

Now that I tolerate RS well, I have a noticeable improvement in my mental clarity if I take 2 Tbsp of RS at a time versus if I take 1 Tbsp at breakfast and another Tbsp at lunch. But, how can that be if RS isn't even digested and I'm taking the same amount of RS in both situations?

Turns out that if you take 1 Tbsp of RS it is quickly fermented by bacteria once it reaches the proximal end of the large intestine. Do this twice or 3 times during a day, and each time the fermentation stays closer to the proximal end of the large intestine. (Yes, you still get benefit by doing this). But, if you take 2 Tbsps at once, the second Tbsp is too much for the proximal end of the large intestine to ferment, and the RS travels further down towards the distal end of the large intestine where it can be fermented by waiting bacteria. The further you get the RS towards the colon, the more butyrate and other SCFAs your body produces which are known to have beneficial anti-inflammatory effects. And if you listen to the podcast, you know that reducing intestinal inflammation is the key to fixing the brain.

From personal experience, I can tell you it works, but your mileage may vary.

 

[Ripley]

Btw, there are other ways to get RS to travel further down to the colon. Taking RS with a small amount of other fibers (as Dr. Grace/BG recommends) can help delay fermentation a bit. The other fibers can be added with supplementation or with food. Tim Steels recommends just using food, but you can experiment and see what works best for you.

But, please be careful with using psyllium as using too much can cause blockages when mixed with PS and not enough water (read the comments on her blog post).

 

[Ripley]

One more thing. For those wondering why other fibers wouldn't work just as well, here's what Tim Steele discovered:

If you look at Table 2 in this study,

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/star.201000099/full

You will see that pectin and gums are fermented almost completely into acetate, where RS is fermented into equal parts acetate, propionate, and butyrate. This is clearly where RS beats Pectin and gum, but I like the thought of including many different fermentable fibers in a good gut diet.

Propionate, and butyrate is where the money's at.