- Messages
- 54
- Location
- Montreal, Canada
Which ones to get to get the best indication of CBS upregulation..... is it SulphATE or SulphITE strips ? I can get both by Quantofix on Amazon.com. But don't really understand the difference.
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
The Quantofix work great for me. They have helped to me to get a better understanding of what things I eat affect my sulfate status which correlates with ammonia production. The surprise for me was there was less impact than I thought from protein (though there is of course some) but there is also quite a bit from thiol rich foods and the amount of mb12 I take.Which ones to get to get the best indication of CBS upregulation..... is it SulphATE or SulphITE strips ? I can get both by Quantofix on Amazon.com. But don't really understand the difference.
So, you use the SulphATE strips, do you? Or do you use the SulphITE strips as well?The Quantofix work great for me. They have helped to me to get a better understanding of what things I eat affect my sulfate status which correlates with ammonia production. The surprise for me was there was less impact than I thought from protein (though there is of course some) but there is also quite a bit from thiol rich foods and the amount of mb12 I take.
For me ammonia is the one that I have to watch out for since it affects inflammation and pain and lowers BH4. I seem to have my sulfites well in hand with molybdenum supplements.
If you get a chance getting a baseline 24 hour urine sulfate may be useful also.
Sorry I should have made is more clear. I use the sulphate strips. The sulfite strips are part of similar pathway but there levels will be affected by SUOX / molybdenum capability. Sulfites are toxic, sulfates are not. But sulfates are probably a better indicator of trans-sulfuration activity. The sulfite strips are to measure if you have issues with sulfite processing.So, you use the SulphATE strips, do you? Or do you use the SulphITE strips as well?
Are these two different pathways?
So the SulphITE strips only measure halfway along the pathway....and so you the SulphATE as well?Sorry I should have made is more clear. I use the sulphate strips. The sulfite strips are part of similar pathway but there levels will be affected by SUOX / molybdenum capability. Sulfites are toxic, sulfates are not. But sulfates are probably a better indicator of trans-sulfuration activity. The sulfite strips are to measure if you have issues with sulfite processing.
Which ones to get to get the best indication of CBS upregulation..... is it SulphATE or SulphITE strips ? I can get both by Quantofix on Amazon.com. But don't really understand the difference.
idk, I never did it. I am CBS +/+. I just look at homocysteine and if it's good, my protocol is doing its job. I wonder if using those strips will provide better control because of more frequent measurements? I would not trust them alone (w/o a SAMe or homocysteine measurement), but it might be useful inbetween. I have never really considered spending the money on the strips. Please report back on how they help you.
this websiote (my doctor) says to use the sulfATE test strips: http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Outcomes-Non-CV-Autism-Methyl Cycle.htm#CBS: Cystathione Beta Synthase
idk, I never did it. I am CBS +/+. I just look at homocysteine and if it's good, my protocol is doing its job.
They are pretty cheap. I learned a lot by testing every night for like two months and recording what was different from day to day. Made sure to measure same time at night and it showed me some patterns.It's unfortunate that these strips aren't sold in packs less than 100. Even if you tested twice a month you'd only need 2 dozen annually. Maybe a few of us could go in on these?
All the sulfate test strip brands are like that.I just recently started using these from Amazon. My only complaint is that they're not very specific. You can guess at a general range, but it's hard to pointpoint it just based on color-matching the strips to the examples on the bottle.
Mine appears to be in the 600-800 range.
Normal homocysteine is 6.3. (See www.lef.org) The lab reference ranges remember are not based on science so ignore them. You can get homocysteine measured by http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests.htm If you are a member the test is $64. I like to get my tests from LEF because then I can phone their doctors to discuss my results. However if you want to get it elsewhere you can try http://www.directlabs.com/ (they charge $79)I am +/- for CBS A360A and the other CBS's are negative. So I'm not clear if CBS up regulation is an issue for me. My homocysteine last measured 9.1, which is definitely within range (<11.4). But SAMe is low at 207 (range is 221-2560). Urine sulfate appears to be about 700.
Does this suggest that I do NOT have CBS up regulation? Or maybe just a little?
I'm just starting Yakso's protocol and would like to skip the CBS portion and move on if it's not necessary, but want to err on the side of caution if there's a chance. Would appreciate your thoughts...
They are pretty cheap. I learned a lot by testing every night for like two months and recording what was different from day to day. Made sure to measure same time at night and it showed me some patterns.
Normal homocysteine is 6.3. (See www.lef.org) The lab reference ranges remember are not based on science so ignore them. You can get homocysteine measured by http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests.htm If you are a member the test is $64. I like to get my tests from LEF because then I can phone their doctors to discuss my results. However if you want to get it elsewhere you can try http://www.directlabs.com/ (they charge $79)
So you need to experiment with supplements to recycle homocysteine to SAMe such as mfolate, mB12 and TMG. Then see if you need to do anything for CBS. IMHO
My understanding from Yakso's book was that CBS is a "first priority mutation" because, until addressed, B12, mfolate and other supplements will go right back out the "CBS gate." You seem to be suggesting a reverse order. Is there a school of thought that disagrees with Yakso's CBS gate theory? Do you think she's too rigid in her strict adherence to a step-by-step approach?
I'm still trying to figure out the CBS issue because many people disagree with Yasko. I joined the Low-Oxalates Yahoo group, even though I don't have an issue with oxalates, because I heard that the moderator Susan Owens has a lot of good info. She claims that Yasko's theory isn't backed up by the agreed-upon science regarding sulfur. Supposedly she sees autistic children end up with muscle wasting (indicated by high 3-methylhistidine on organic acids tests) due to sulfur restriction, as the body will catabolize muscle if it needs sulfur.
According to Rich VanK's study with Dr. Nathan, CBS issues can be resolved without addressing CBS directly (since the patients in the study did the simplified protocol without genetic testing). So I dunno...
II used to go on Owen's site but had never seen that, so thanks for posting it. I'm not sure of course that Owen's oxalate theory is correct, but she does make a good point about Yasko not ever having ANY studies to back up her claims about sulfur -- and especially her claim that SULFATE is toxic. Just completely contradicts the research by Waring and others.
Also, the study that Jill James did w/autistic kids with the CBS issue showed improvements/normalization in methylation status without any dietary sulfur restriction:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/6/1611.full
Anne Likes Red has improved substantially over the past year or so, and she increased her sulfur foods/supplements.
As always, there are no easy answers. Personally I'm hoping that CBS is not as huge of an issue as Yasko makes it out to be, but that's just because I'd prefer not to have to worry about another dietary change.
However, there are some members of this forum who claim that they notice definite benefits from reducing sulfur and lowering their urine sulfate levels. It's probably different for everyone...