Hi again,
I thought I'd post a gentle reminder to try to be polite when stating disagreement. When you say that the vegetarian diet is based on "millennia-old superstitions" (even with a smiley face) it sounds a bit like you are criticizing anyone who follows this diet. And perhaps even calling into question their mental abilities? I'm sure it was not intentional, of course. But maybe you can see how it might sound that way?
I do believe that you're actually worried about folks and trying to help. But if you're worried that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy, then perhaps it would be be more constructive to post links to studies or papers that support your concerns? We will never reach consensus on the best diet (or treatment, or anything else!) but I hope we can find ways to disagree politely.
As I've said several times, I don't care what others eat. (and I'm not sure why anyone on this forum would care what I eat, either!) But I do care about hurting other people's feelings.
HUGS for all...
I've been nothing but polite, ahimsa. Just b/c someone might not agree with you doesn't mean they're not being polite. In fact, I was making extra efforts to be polite after your implication that I was somehow "telling people what to do," which is of course a ludicrous idea.
As for your call for evidence, I think the proof is in the pudding, as they say, and no pun intended. Mediterranean diets have been studied in the scientific literature for decades now, and they have been well-established as close to the ideal diet. Here's a study (pdf) that gives a good overview, as well as providing numerous references:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/61/6/1313S.full.pdf
Otoh, vegeterianism and veganism are commonly associated with well-known health problems related to vitamin B and protein deficiencies, gut flora alterations, and also perhaps insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome ("Syndrome X"). It's now known that children fed vegetarian diets tend to have lower IQs. A study I just saw recently also correlated greater mental health problems with vegetarianism:
Int J Behav Nutr Phys Act. 2012 Jun 7;9(1):67. [Epub ahead of print]
Vegetarian diet and mental disorders: results from a representative community survey.
Michalak J,
Zhang XC,
Jacobi F.
Abstract
ABSTRACT:
BACKGROUND:
The present study investigated associations between vegetarian diet and mental disorders.
METHODS:
Participants were drawn from the representative sample of the German Health Interview and Examination Survey and its Mental Health Supplement (GHS-MHS). Completely vegetarian (N = 54) and predominantly vegetarian (N = 190) participants were compared with nonvegetarian participants (N = 3872) and with a non-vegetarian socio-demographically matched subsample (N = 242).
RESULTS:
Vegetarians displayed elevated prevalence rates for depressive disorders, anxiety disorders and somatoform disorders. Due to the matching procedure, the findings cannot be explained by socio-demographic characteristics of vegetarians (e.g. higher rates of females, predominant residency in urban areas, high proportion of singles). The analysis of the respective ages at adoption of a vegetarian diet and onset of a mental disorder showed that the onset of mental disorders tends to follow the adoption of the vegetarian diet.
CONCLUSIONS:
Vegetarian diet is associated with an elevated risk of mental disorders. However, there was no evidence for a causal role of vegetarian diet in the etiology of mental disorders.
# # #
Here's a study that shows increased incidence of Crohn's disease among vegetarians in India, while eating fish was protective against the disease - probably not surprising given the anti-inflammatory effects of n-3 fats:
Indian J Gastroenterol. 2011 Dec;30(6):264-9. Epub 2011 Dec 13.
Environmental factors associated with Crohn's disease in India.
Pugazhendhi S,
Sahu MK,
Subramanian V,
Pulimood A,
Ramakrishna BS.
Source
Department of Gastrointestinal Sciences, Christian Medical College, Vellore, India.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The frequency of diagnosis of Crohn's disease (CD) in India is increasing. This case-control study was designed to detect associations of environmental and dietary factors with the diagnosis of CD.
METHODS:
In 200 consecutive patients with CD and 200 control subjects without gastrointestinal disease, environmental hygiene exposures in childhood and in the past one year, and dietary preferences were recorded using a questionnaire. Univariate and multivariate analyses were done.
RESULTS:
In univariate analysis, CD showed positive association with urban residence (at birth and current), availability of protected drinking water (childhood and current), availability of piped water in the house (childhood and current), and strict vegetarian dietary habit, and negative association with regular fish consumption and presence of cattle in the house compound. Multivariate analysis showed that regular fish consumption (OR 0.52, 95% CI 0.33-0.80, p = 0.003), and presence of cattle in the house compound currently (OR 0.57, 95% CI 0.35-0.92, p = 0.023) were significant protective associations, whereas use of safe drinking water was positively associated (OR 1.59, 95% CI 1.02-2.47, p = 0.042) with the disease.
CONCLUSION:
Occurrence of CD was associated with dietary and environmental exposures, which indicate that diet and hygiene may influence the development of this disease.
# # #
Omnivores tend to have better gut flora, obviously of importance in ME/CFS:
Br J Nutr. 2011 Dec 20:1-5. [Epub ahead of print]
Faecal microbiota composition in vegetarians: comparison with omnivores in a cohort of young women in southern India.
Kabeerdoss J,
Shobana Devi R,
Regina Mary R,
Ramakrishna BS.
Source
Department of Gastrointestinal Sciences, Christian Medical College, Vellore 632 004, Tamil Nadu, India.
Abstract
The effect of vegetarian diets on faecal microbiota has been explored largely through culture-based techniques. The present study compared the faecal microbiota of vegetarian and omnivorous young women in southern India. Faecal samples were obtained from thirty-two lacto-vegetarian and twenty-four omnivorous young adult women from a similar social and economic background. Macronutrient intake and anthropometric data were collected. Faecal microbiota of interest was quantified by real-time PCR with SYBR Green using primers targeting 16S rRNA genes of groups, including: Clostridium coccoides group (Clostridium cluster XIVa), Roseburia spp.-Eubacterium rectale, Bacteroides-Prevotella group, Bifidobacterium genus, Lactobacillus group, Clostridium leptum group (Clostridium cluster IV), Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, Ruminococcus productus-C. coccoides, Butyrivibrio, Enterococcus species and Enterobacteriaceae. The groups were matched for age, socio-economic score and anthropometric indices. Intake of energy, complex carbohydrates and Ca were significantly higher in the omnivorous group. The faecal microbiota of the omnivorous group was enriched with Clostridium cluster XIVa bacteria, specifically Roseburia-E. rectale. The relative proportions of other microbial communities were similar in both groups. The butyryl-CoA CoA-transferase gene, associated with microbial butyrate production, was present in greater amounts in the faeces of omnivores, and the levels were highly correlated with Clostridium cluster XIVa and Roseburia-E. rectale abundance and to a lesser extent with Clostridium leptum and F. prausnitzii abundance and with crude fibre intake. Omnivores had an increased relative abundance of Clostridium cluster XIVa bacteria and butyryl-CoA CoA-transferase gene compared with vegetarians, but we were unable to identify the components of the diet responsible for this difference.
Nutrition. 2012 Feb;28(2):148-53. Epub 2011 Aug 27.
Eur J Clin Nutr. 2012 Jan;66(1):53-60. doi: 10.1038/ejcn.2011.141. Epub 2011 Aug 3.
A vegan or vegetarian diet substantially alters the human colonic faecal microbiota.
Zimmer J,
Lange B,
Frick JS,
Sauer H,
Zimmermann K,
Schwiertz A,
Rusch K,
Klosterhalfen S,
Enck P.
Source
Department of Internal Medicine VI, University Hospital, Tübingen, Germany.
Abstract
BACKGROUND/OBJECTIVES:
Consisting of ≈10(14) microbial cells, the intestinal microbiota represents the largest and the most complex microbial community inhabiting the human body. However, the influence of regular diets on the microbiota is widely unknown.
SUBJECTS/METHODS:
We examined faecal samples of vegetarians (n=144), vegans (n=105) and an equal number of control subjects consuming ordinary omnivorous diet who were matched for age and gender. We used classical bacteriological isolation, identification and enumeration of the main anaerobic and aerobic bacterial genera and computed absolute and relative numbers that were compared between groups.
RESULTS:
Total counts of Bacteroides spp., Bifidobacterium spp., Escherichia coli and Enterobacteriaceae spp. were significantly lower (P=0.001, P=0.002, P=0.006 and P=0.008, respectively) in vegan samples than in controls, whereas others (E. coli biovars, Klebsiella spp., Enterobacter spp., other Enterobacteriaceae, Enterococcus spp., Lactobacillus spp., Citrobacter spp. and Clostridium spp.) were not. Subjects on a vegetarian diet ranked between vegans and controls. The total microbial count did not differ between the groups. In addition, subjects on a vegan or vegetarian diet showed significantly (P=0.0001) lower stool pH than did controls, and stool pH and counts of E. coli and Enterobacteriaceae were significantly correlated across all subgroups.
CONCLUSIONS:
Maintaining a strict vegan or vegetarian diet results in a significant shift in the microbiota while total cell numbers remain unaltered.
# # #
Here's a study showing a possible correlation between vegetarianism, B12 deficiency (which we already know is a huge risk for vegetarians/vegans), and insulin resistance:
Nutrition. 2012 Jan;28(1):20-4. Epub 2011 Aug 11.
Vegetarianism, vitamin B12 status, and insulin resistance in a group of predominantly overweight/obese South Asian women.
Gammon CS,
von Hurst PR,
Coad J,
Kruger R,
Stonehouse W.
Source
Institute of Food, Nutrition and Human Health, Massey University, Auckland, New Zealand.
C.Gammon@massey.ac.nz
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
Asian Indians are an at-risk group for vitamin B12 deficiency (because of vegetarianism) and insulin resistance (IR). Vegetarianism and consequent vitamin B12 deficiency may be associated with IR. This study aimed to describe the vitamin B12 status of predominantly overweight/obese women of South Asian origin living in Auckland and to correlate serum vitamin B12 and vegetarian status with IR as part of the larger Surya Study looking at health and lifestyle in this population.
METHODS:
This was a cross-sectional study of 135 women at least 20 y of age who were not taking vitamin B supplements or medications that could affect vitamin B12 concentrations (serum vitamin B12 < 800 pmol/L). Data collection included serum vitamin B12, serum folate, measurements of IR (HOMA2-IR), and anthropometry. Vegetarian status was established for 124 subjects (90 non-vegetarians, 34 vegetarians).
RESULTS:
Mean serum vitamin B12 was 227 pmol/L (95% confidence interval 210-245), serum folate was 19.1 nmol/L (18.0-20.2), and HOMA2-IR was 1.24 (1.13-1.36). Non-vegetarians had higher serum vitamin B12 levels (257 pmol/L, 235-281) than vegetarians (181 pmol/L, 159-207), P < 0.001. Vitamin B12 deficiency (<150 pmol/L) in vegetarians was 24% versus 9% in non-vegetarians. Non-vegetarians had increased body mass index (25.9 kg/m², 25.0-26.9, versus 23.9 kg/m², 22.6-25.3), waist circumference (81 ± 10.1 versus 75.8 ± 9.88 cm), and HOMA2-IR levels (1.30, 1.17-1.46, versus 1.00, 0.83-1.22). No correlation was found between serum vitamin B12 and HOMA2-IR. A significant positive correlation between non-vegetarian status and IR disappeared after controlling for body mass index.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study population has a low serum vitamin B12 status, especially if vegetarian. The high rates of observed obesity may have overshadowed any other contributing factor to IR.
# # #
Current studies show that vegetarianism is associated with clinical malnutrition and other problems related to poor protein (sulfur amino acid) status, including heart attacks and related coronary disease:
Vegetarianism produces subclinical malnutrition, hyperhomocysteinemia and atherogenesis.
Ingenbleek Y,
McCully KS.
Source
Laboratory of Nutrition, Faculty of Pharmacy, University Louis Pasteur, Strasbourg, France.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To explain why vegetarian subjects develop morbidity and mortality from cardiovascular diseases unrelated to vitamin B status and Framingham criteria.
METHODS:
A study of 24 rural male subjects 18 to 30 y old and 15 urban male controls was conducted in the Sahel region of Chad. Food consumption was determined from a dietary questionnaire, and overall health status was assessed by body weight, body mass index, serum albumin, plasma transthyretin, urinary nitrogen, and creatinine. Plasma lipids, vitamins B6, B9 and B12, homocysteine, and related sulfur amino acids were measured as selected cardiovascular disease risk factors.
RESULTS:
Body weight, body mass index, blood, and urinary markers of protein status were significantly lower, with an estimated 10% decrease of lean body mass in the study group compared with urban controls. Neither lipid fractions nor plasma levels of vitamins B6, B9, and B12 were significantly different between the two groups. Although the mean consumption of sulfur amino acids (10.4 mg·kg(-1)·d(-1)) by rural subjects was significantly below the recommended dietary allowances (13 mg·kg(-1)·d(-1)), plasma methionine values were similar in the two groups. In contrast, homocysteine concentration was significantly increased (18.6 μmol/L, P < 0.001), and the levels of cysteine and glutathione were significantly decreased in the study group, demonstrating inhibition of the trans-sulfuration pathway. The strong negative correlation (r = -0.71) between transthyretin and homocysteine implicated lean body mass as a critical determinant of hyperhomocysteinemia.
CONCLUSION:
The low dietary intake of protein and sulfur amino acids by a plant-eating population leads to subclinical protein malnutrition, explaining the origin of hyperhomocysteinemia and the increased vulnerability of these vegetarian subjects to cardiovascular diseases.
# # #
And the evidence goes on and on, most all of it in favor of Mediterranean/Asian diets that include small to moderate amounts of animal proteins, and wary of vegan/vegetarian diets which carry clear risks of malnutrition and nutrient deficiency and typical problems associated with those statuses. Give the track record and the scientific backing of the Med diet, I'll stick with that until something better comes along (and not calorie restriction : P).
