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.:: Sustained-release Methylation Protocol (SRMP) ::.

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
@Kathevans I don't subscribe to the 'paradoxical folate insufficiency' theory too much... when I got what was blocking my methylation pathways straightened out (in my personal case, it was B2).. I was able to just take methylfolate like any other vitamin. There was really no timing issues or "voodoo" to it anymore.

Good luck with the B2, hope it continues to help.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
this is my second day on FMN, or active B2--after pulling back and on the Coenzymated B-Complex and stabilizing my heart issues. Not surprisingly to those of you who’ve tried it, I feel so much more like me I’m amazed. Calmer, more energetic, more centered. Better sleep, too, though far from perfect (that would be way too much to expect from a single supp!).
Amazing, isn't it?:jaw-drop: Many many thanks to @ppodhajski for making the case for FMN. I know it is mentioned elsewhere, but his comments were so compelling, and I was ready for it..:):balanced:
 

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
@Gondwanaland Thank you. This looks easy enough! Now let's see if I can make it work!

@Sherpa it may be that once my B2 levels climb to normal levels, the symptoms I'm now having with the methyl B12 (which is the one I've been trying to increase, given my snps) will dissipate. I think you said it took about 3 weeks to re-balance the B2, so we'll see...

@ahmo Amazing and a little dismaying. Where are the health professionals who might have pointed us in the right direction?:(
 
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Messages
10
MAO A R297R +/+
MTHFR C677T +/-
MTRR A66G +/-
MTRR H595Y +/-
MTRR K350A +/-

I got tested through Yasko and was given the recommendation of more B12 all versions based on my SNPs listed above. It seems what ppodhajski is recommending is B2 (FMN) instead. I tried the sublingual B2 and had intense headaches the very next day. I had some banana thinking it might be potassium deficiency and felt fine shortly afterwards.
Do i just stick with B2 or should i combined it with some B12 and folate?

Thanks,
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
MAO A R297R +/+
MTHFR C677T +/-
MTRR A66G +/-
MTRR H595Y +/-
MTRR K350A +/-

I got tested through Yasko and was given the recommendation of more B12 all versions based on my SNPs listed above. It seems what ppodhajski is recommending is B2 (FMN) instead. I tried the sublingual B2 and had intense headaches the very next day. I had some banana thinking it might be potassium deficiency and felt fine shortly afterwards.
Do i just stick with B2 or should i combined it with some B12 and folate?

Thanks,
Nobody here can tell you what to do, but you could look at what @AndyPandy has posted recently about B2 and B12/methylation here. Maybe it will help you decide.
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
@sblaque

Your main mutation of concern is MAO A R297R - would help make sure your thyroid levels are in range and you are not suffering from any sort of B2 deficiency.

The other mutations aren't ones that I have heard are such a big deal.

I had good luck taking plain B2 and continue to take it. My body seems to accept that. My personal protocol is different now but the supplements in this thread are what got me going.
 
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Messages
10
I really appreciate the response.
@Critterina, thanks for the link provided. I will check it out.
@Sherpa, not sure why Yasko put more emphasis on the MTRR mutations and recommended high dose B12. Very little was mentioned in her report about the MOA SNP.

Again, i appreciate the responses.
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
When I first started, I was B2 deficient / MAO A dysfunctioning and extremely sensitive to methylfolate. The Jigsaw SRT with time release methylfolate was very gentle and helpful at first.

Over several months I have adjusted to metylfolate very slowly worked up to 1mg of Solgar Metafolin and take magnesium enemas instead of the Jigsaw SRT Magnesium.

Here's How to Make Magnesium Enemas with Epsom Salt
 
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Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
I really appreciate the response.
@Sherpa, not sure why Yasko put more emphasis on the MTRR mutations and recommended high dose B12. Very little was mentioned in her report about the MOA SNP.

Again, i appreciate the responses.

@sblaque from what I have read (I'm not a genetic expert or anything) the worst is MTRR A66G +/+ ... the +/- are not as severe... but B12 therapy might help. You could start with a methylcobalmin sublingal and see if you get a response to it... if you do notice significant effects, your body might be craving it. In that case... B12 Oils are much better than any of the pills I've tried.
 
Messages
10
@sblaque

Your main mutation of concern is MAO A R297R - would help make sure your thyroid levels are in range and you are not suffering from any sort of B2 deficiency.

The other mutations aren't ones that I have heard are such a big deal.

I had good luck taking plain B2 and continue to take it. My body seems to accept that. My personal protocol is different now but the supplements in this thread are what got me going.
@Sherpa, funny you mentioned thyroid levels. I have always believed i have some type of hypothyroidism but my lab results are always within range. I have even done additional testing beyond the TSH performed during physical examinations, still they return "normal". A symptom i can't seem to understand is the cold hands and feet i experience on a regular basis. Now, i am beginning to think it might be related to my MOA snp.

Can you suggest a B12 oil brand if you dont mind?
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
@sblaque

the kind of "subclinical" hypothyroidism you describe is quite common on these kind of forms. My thyroid levels tested in range but I suffered a lot of hypothyroid symptoms (heat intolerance, sleep onset insomnia, anxiety, depression) until I started taking Thyrotrophin PMG natural thyroid glandular on the advice of a thyroid M.D.
 
Messages
10
I have a few classic signs of an underperforming thyroid. Cold hands and feet, irritability, bloating and other digesting issues. I'll look into your suggestion. Thanks a bunch.
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
@sblaque I just had a consultation with a good practitioner who suggested I take a Hakala Labs iodine loading thyroid test, and see if I need supplemental iodine.
 
Messages
10
@sblaque I just had a consultation with a good practitioner who suggested I take a Hakala Labs iodine loading thyroid test, and see if I need supplemental iodine.
@Sherpa,
it is amazing you bring that up now but i just recently stopped taking high dose iodine. I felt significant improvements in certain areas but had side effects such as cold extremities and bloating. I tried all the protocols recommended online such as salt loading, etc. The salt just worsens my bloating symptom. I only read today that vitamin B2/Niacin is needed when you take Iodine. There might be a synergistic relationship between iodine and B2.
 
Messages
25
Location
Boulder, CO
.:: Sustained-release Methylation Protocol ::. -- Version 1.0 --
This protocol uses sustained-release formulas of B12 and methylfolate to provide steady support for the methylation cycle and neurotransmitter production. It does not require taking dozens of pills or sucking on sublingual B12 lozenges all day. These supplements help my body produce more glutathione with less chance of over-stimulation, confusing "paradoxical" reactions or electrolyte imbalance problems.

qCCER62.jpg

These supplements support my MAO A R297R +/+ (requires B2), MTRR A66G (requires a steady supply of B12 & some B2), and MTHFR (requires B2 and folate) mutations... as well as my basic nutritional needs. I am sharing my personal protocol to inspire you to find supplements that work for your own unique SNPs and sensitivities. Working with a qualified, nutritionally informed practitioner is strongly recommended. The following is for informational purposes only, it is not medical advice.

The Supplements (which I added, slowly, in numerical order):
  1. Nature Made B-complex with C - 1 tablet / A.M.
  2. All in One Multi-vitamin (Holistic Health / Dr. Yasko) - 1 capsule per day, or more
  3. Pic-Mins Multimineral (Thorne) - 1 capsule / P.M.
  4. NT Factor EnergyLipids powder - 1 scoop A.M. / 1 scoop P.M. (start with 1/4 scoop and increase gradually as tolerated)
  5. B12 Oils transdermal B12 spray sustained-release - 1 to 2 squirts per day
  6. Jigsaw Magnesium with sustained-release methylfolate & P5P - 2 tablets A.M, 2 tablets P.M. or more
Support for my MAO A R297R +/+ mutation:
In addition to the Nature Made B-complex (with 10.2mg of B2) listed above, I took 1/4 of a Solgar B2 50mg tablet (12.5mg) before lunch and 1/4 tablet before dinner for about one month before starting the B12 Oil and Jigsaw Magnesium w/ methylfolate. Here's why:
  • The most common reason for people to respond poorly to methylfolate is vitamin B2 deficiency.
  • Lack of B2 in combination with MAO +/+ means that your ability to turn off your neuronal stimulus is greatly reduced, thus leading to 'apparent' over-stimulation of nerves
  • MAO requires a metabolite of B2 called FAD to be present when the enzyme is synthesized.
  • It normally takes 2-4 weeks of regular B2 supplementation (e.g. 5mg or more, 3x daily) to normalize activity of MAO. This is provided that you have normal thyroid function.
Be aware that starting up methylation when MAO A is still not functioning well can cause reactions that are quite similar to the side effects of MAO inhibitor drugs, and that are also confusingly similar to the symptoms of low potassium and/ or B12 deficiency. I experienced dry mouth, sudden awakening at night (insomnia), muscle jerking, tingling in arms and legs. I found these symptoms resolved with continued B2 supplementation.

Nutrient Dosages for the basic package -- 1 All in One + 1 B-Complex + 1 PIC-MINS + 4 Jigsaw magnesium tabs + 1 B12 Oils spray:
  • B1 - 15mg
  • B2 - 13mg
  • B3 - 60mg
  • B5 - 23mg
  • B6 - 13mg
  • Folate - 226mcg
  • B12 - 2.5mg
  • Biotin - 38mcg
  • A - 1250 I.U.
  • C - 370mg
  • D - 100 I.U.
  • K - 10mcg
  • Zinc - 18.75mg
  • Copper - 0mg
  • Selenium - 125mcg
  • Maganese - 2.75mg
  • Chromium - 125mcg
  • Magnesium - 500mg
(*Note: some values were rounded to the nearest milligram)

Rationale for the supplements:
  • Nutrient levels can easily be titrated by splitting tablets or adding additional capsules - as low or high as you want! Lower dose B-vitamin support may prevent electrolyte imbalance and over-driving the methylation cycle. I want enough minerals (Zinc, manganese, etc.) to prevent insufficiency without going too high & triggering metal detox.

  • Lower dose, time-release methylfolate reduces the likelihood of electrolyte (potassium) imbalances and overcomes the short serum half-life of standard methylfolate - which caused me to experience mood swings & extremely confusing "paradoxical reactions." The Jigsaw Magnesium seems to provide a steady trickle of methylfolate that lasts for about 8 hours, keeping the folate cycle steadily humming along.

  • Sustained-release transdermal B12 Oils are highly preferred due to the low absorption & very short (1 to 2 hour) effect of B12 sublinguals and the corrosive effects of sugar and acids on tooth enamel. The spray seems to provide full B12 coverage at least 6 to 8 hours, or more. I like Adenosylcobalmin/Methylcobalmin mix or the B12 Ice (AdCbl + MeCbl with Vitamin D3 and THC, a curcumin derivative).

  • Lipid replacement therapy (NT Factor EnergyLipids) is used to help repair cellular membranes from the oxidative stress that very often occurs with CFS/ME. I believe NT Factor helped me heal and tolerate methylation supplements better after a couple months. It was very stimulating at first, so I started with small amount and gradually increased to the recommended dose. Ignore what the product label says about a double "loading dose" if you are at all sensitive to supplements.

  • I use some "proprietary supplements" that are only available from one source or are more expensive than common brands or generics - Jigsaw Magnesium w/ Methylfolate, All in One Multivitamin/Mineral, NT Factor EnergyLipids, and B12 Oils - but I believe that the quality and delivery technology of these products justify the cost.

  • I use some low cost supplements like Nature Made B-complex and Pic-Mins to boost the overall dose of vitamins and minerals in order to reduce the number of capsules of the All in One Multivitamin (w/ methylation cofactors). 1 or 2 caps per day is more affordable than taking the full dose of 4 per day ($33/month).

Additional Co-factors - as required: Riboflavin (B2), regular B6 or coenzymated B6 (sublingual P5P), Vitamin C, Vitamin D3, curcumin, Doctor's Best L-carnitine Fumarate, Extramel SOD extract, D-ribose, NADH, thyroid glandular, and additional Metafolin (methylfolate).

Potassium: There is a lot of online discussion about low potassium on methylation protocols. In my opinion, low potassium (hypokalemia) is sometimes over-diagnosed by sick people on web forums... who assume any unusual symptom or reaction must be low potassium. I misdiagnosed other symptoms as "low potassium" and ended up taking too much potassium (when I didn't need any at all) and messed up my electrolyte balance and caused myself discomfort and setback. On the other hand, ignoring actual low potassium levels can be dangerous. It's tricky to figure out! Therefore, I believe that its better for me not to take supplements at doses that commonly disrupt electrolyte balance... unless I was under expert medical care and monitoring.

I supplement magnesium & try to eat a higher potassium diet to support the increased cell division & growth that occurs with increased methylation. So far, I only seem to need extra potassium when I do strenuous exercise that makes me lose electrolytes through sweat. After serious exertion I may go for some potato chips, coconut water or Optimal Electrolyte drink. The lower doses of methylfolate (less than RDA of 400 - 800mcg) I'm using have not caused me any low potassium issues in my normal, day-to-day life.

So interesting - I have the MAO A R297R +/+, the MTRR A66G +/-, and MTHFR C677T +/- (not sure if yours is that MTHFR) - and by chance I started taking B2 bc my bloodwork showed it was low. Then I tried active B12 (again) and was able to tolerate it in smaller doses (so far) - and reading this post I now understand why. Can you tell me who you worked with to determine what and how you need to supplement based on your snp? I have a few more mutations to balance as well and want to make sure I am supported properly before I go full steam with a methylation protocol. I too am concerned about messing up electrolyte balance. So glad I found this post. Thank you VERY much!!!
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
@Stacey1121 I had to figure out what to supplement from trial and error, and research. I learned about B2 from a private message on another form. I learned at lot from Dr. Ben Lynch's stuff.

But it's mostly trial and error. The supplements I take now are somewhat different than the ones in this article ,as my nutrient statuses and needs have changed.
 

Sparrowhawk

Senior Member
Messages
514
Location
West Coast USA
.:: Sustained-release Methylation Protocol ::. -- Version 1.0 --
This protocol uses sustained-release formulas of B12 and methylfolate to provide steady support for the methylation cycle and neurotransmitter production. It does not require taking dozens of pills or sucking on sublingual B12 lozenges all day. These supplements help my body produce more glutathione with less chance of over-stimulation, confusing "paradoxical" reactions or electrolyte imbalance problems...

@Sherpa are you able to give any update on hoe this is working for you now since your last post? Especially with regards to the topical B12 oils? Thank you.
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
@Sparrowhawk

This was the regimen that got my very finicky, sensitive SNPs and my broken down methylation cycle "back up and running" after many failed attempts.

Now that my methylation cycle seems to be "humming along" ... I am not longer so sensitive to methyl donors (folate) that I need sustained release.. not do I need to take folate sever times per day, as in Freddd's protocol.

Now I take 1/2 of a Methyl B Complete capsule (with B12, methylfolate and TMG)... plus a NatureMade B-complex with C, and B12 Oils daily. Those are my only methylation supplements.

My body seems to be methylating, making glutathione... and I am going to get my homocysteine measured soon, hope they are down.

Methylation dysfunction was a major, but not exclusive, part of my own personal CFS root causes. I also had to address a bromide toxic thyroid with Dr. Brownstein's Iodine protocol, I had to raise my low testosterone levels with Tongkat Ali, and I had to treat my overactive amygdala / severe social anxiety with CBD (cannabinol).

Now I am feeling significantly better and I am able to enjoy life, with minor restrictions.
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
508
Location
Europe
@Sparrowhawk

This was the regimen that got my very finicky, sensitive SNPs and my broken down methylation cycle "back up and running" after many failed attempts.

Now that my methylation cycle seems to be "humming along" ... I am not longer so sensitive to methyl donors (folate) that I need sustained release.. not do I need to take folate sever times per day, as in Freddd's protocol.

Now I take 1/2 of a Methyl B Complete capsule (with B12, methylfolate and TMG)... plus a NatureMade B-complex with C, and B12 Oils daily. Those are my only methylation supplements.

My body seems to be methylating, making glutathione... and I am going to get my homocysteine measured soon, hope they are down.

Methylation dysfunction was a major, but not exclusive, part of my own personal CFS root causes. I also had to address a bromide toxic thyroid with Dr. Brownstein's Iodine protocol, I had to raise my low testosterone levels with Tongkat Ali, and I had to treat my overactive amygdala / severe social anxiety with CBD (cannabinol).

Now I am feeling significantly better and I am able to enjoy life, with minor restrictions.

Good to hear Sherpa!
I wonder how you take the Methyl B Complete capsule, do you put the content under the tongue?
Also, which B12 oil do you use?
I doubt between Methyl Cobalamin and Adenosyl/Methyl Cobalamin.