Stem Cells

[herbqueen]

Janis-can you elaborate on who Dr. Joe is and his process or stem cells- is he treating in the US? What kinds of condition is he treating? Where does he extract the adult stem cells from ie.blood, bone marrow, fat? Sorry for my ignorance-- I'm trying to research all options- I fall in the atypical MS/chroniclyme / MCS(was fibro 4 years ago) category. Very ill and now homebound 5 months after horrific reaction to just a few drugs that sent me on downward spiral.



Would be good to know what chemical agents are added with all the stem cell options i.e. D.r Joe, panama/costa rica, germany , india etc. Since most of us are so sensitive.

 

[herbqueen]

cord blood cells

Also- not sure about cheney's thought on this-

but a concern on cord blood /donor stem cells would be transmission for unknown or untestable pathogens (i.e currently no test for lyme for example).

thoughts? does anyone know what cheney has to say on this topic and how carefully the cord blood is screened for pathogens as well as genetic issues?

 

[undercover707]

I have a question for those GMA patients that are considering stem cells: did Dr. Gordon have you guys do cell signaling factors first?

I asked my practitioner at GMA this question. The answer was: "And yes we can order his (Dr. Cheneys) cell signalling factors for you and do his stem cell prep protocol".

 

[Sushi]

Also- not sure about cheney's thought on this-

but a concern on cord blood /donor stem cells would be transmission for unknown or untestable pathogens (i.e currently no test for lyme for example).

thoughts? does anyone know what cheney has to say on this topic and how carefully the cord blood is screened for pathogens as well as genetic issues?

My understanding from my friend who is Cheney's patient and has gone to Panama 3 times is that they use placental stem cells and that he has thoroughly investigated their screening process (for pathogens and genetic issues) and is satisfied with their quality control. I don't know the specifics of the screenings however.

Sushi

 

[mojoey]

Thanks David,

I would be really interested in trying to CSFs. It's unfortunate that only GMA, Cheney, and another doc in TX are distributing these. If anyone knows of a way that those of us that aren't patients can get access to them that would be great. I know there are many of us considering getting stem cells without seeing Cheney but I'd be remiss not to do his entire prep protocol before spending 15 grand on the last step

 

[mojoey]

I'm not too concerned about the pathogen issue so much as potential cancer down the line. I received an email from a Cheney patient yesterday saying that at least one of his patients was positive for XMRV culture and negative after stem cell transfusion. This isn't surprising because he believes stem cells corrects immune aberrations better than anything he's ever seen (down the line to even seasonal allergies) but I think the more relevant concern amongs XMRV-positive patients isn't putting the infection into latency but reinfection down the line. If there were a "Peptide T" for XMRV available the reinfection chances could be manageable and not a total crapshoot, which it is as things stand.

 

[Rockt]

I asked my practitioner at GMA this question. The answer was: "And yes we can order his (Dr. Cheneys) cell signalling factors for you and do his stem cell prep protocol".

Hi.

New here, but have been reading this thread with great interest.

Stem cells seem to make so much sense to me - like resetting a corrupted hard-drive. I see myself getting this therapy in the next year or two when I can afford it, (let's hope the prices keep coming down, at least to a level that is attainable by regular people), and when I feel that the practice is a little more common and less experimental.

I have a question about the Cell Signalling Factors: Do we know that they are necessary or even work? I understand the need for gut treatment, (though, I wish I could learn more about what Dr. Cheney and others recommend), but CSF's seem a little "out there". If stem cells work the way they are supposed to, how would these CSF's help? I suppose you could say the same about the gut, though that seems to make more sense: so much of our immune system is centered there.

If anyone has any input on, or, (even better), experience with, CSF's, please share.

Thanks and nice to be part of this group. There's a great spirit of help and sharing here that may not be as evident in other forums.

 

[InvertedTree]

Hi rockt-

welcome to the forums! My understanding is some people have had success with stem cell therapy without using any cell signaling factors. Dr. Cheney has had the greatest success with people which is why I'm interested in following his protocol. I've heard of one or two patients that have had slight improvement using cell signaling factors. Patients at GMA who've used cell signaling factor's have not had any noticeable change. I tried them through GMA but did not have any improvement (but then I haven't had improvement with most of the treatments I've tried).

mojoey-I share your concerns about cancer down the line rather than the pathogen issue. I'm going to be contacting someone from the panama/costa rica group and will ask about the cancer risk. I'm also concerned about the risk of brain tumours down the road. It's good to hear that being xmrv positive doesn't preclude one from receiving these treatments.

I think focusing on the gut is more important IMHO along with diet changes, etc....

 

[mojoey]

Hey invertedtree,

My understanding is that it goes both ways: people have had success with only stem cells, and others have had success with only CSF, aka live cells, aka peptides. Here is excerpt from http://www.prohealth.com/Fibromyalgia/blog/boardDetail.cfm?id=1346629

Treatment 1.

To correct things, Cheney uses cell-signaling factors (CSF), which are similar to “live cell” therapy as practiced in Europe for many years. This is not a new idea. For years Cheney has used a LMW peptide called Kutapressin. In recent years he has added other Cell-Signaling Factors (adrenal, thymus, heart, kidney, and bran). Cheney makes his own, presumably a gel. The one for the heart is from bison. Cheney explained how he felt that CSF worked in CFS and he demonstrated this with a study that he has done. This study was performed to investigate function, not symptom improvement. It was in two parts and the second part, using CSF, had a significant uptick in patient functionality. Improvement occurred within ninety days. 75% of the patients functionally improved and their oxygen toxicity improved. Non-responders oxygen toxicity did not improve. Improvement in responders was sustained.

He ran through a set of permutations of the various CSFs, measuring for energy responsiveness on “Echo terrain maps”. He finds that the adrenal and thymus and liver create the most “backflash”, i.e. loss of energy, and that the pancreas, brain and heart CSFs bring the most energy response. He has created hundred and hundreds of ECHO terrain maps to determine energy response to the use of these agents. He sees the same thing without exception. 100% of patients display oxygen toxicity, all of the patients’ energy response drops with adrenal and thymus. All patients’ energy response goes up on heart (most responsive) and brain and bison liver CSF. Cheney says this is nothing more than a series of interrogations and out of it you can create a map.

 

[mojoey]

This is older, but I believe the main difference between this study and the more recent one I posted above is that he replaced the pig heart with bison heart peptides http://www.ei-resource.org/columns/phoenix-rising/dr-cheney:-still-the-heart-of-the-matter/

Cell Associated Therapy for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Is this the Next Frontier? - Paul Cheney, MD.

Dr. Cheney uses cell-signaling factors (CSF’s) or ‘live cell’ products (among other things) to treat ME/CFS. Kutapressin (Nexavir) is a CSF that he's used extensively in the past.

The study had 18 patients, average length of illness 15 years (!). Dr. Cheney used CSF’s from the hearts and livers of pigs applied in skin creams and low dose human growth hormone for the first six months; the same approach he was using, he reports in 2000. In the last six months the patients received oral doses of frozen adolescent pig heart and mesenchymal or fetal extract.

There were no changes in functioning in the first six months but some large reductions in IVRT and increased stroke volume were seen in the last six months. This resulted in about a 10 point increase in their quality of life (Karnovsky) scores – not a huge amount but potentially significant particularly if you’re very ill; if you’re at ‘4’ ten points is a 25% increase in well-being. Eleven percent of patients (those with environmental sensitivities) were intolerant to the medication.

Conclusion: It took a year (and a change in protocol) but these patients quality of life did improve. The average patient was, however, not well – or close to it.

 

[InvertedTree]

great info. thanks for posting it mojoey. i'm going to try cheney's csf's in the next couple weeks.

 

[Rockt]

great info. thanks for posting it mojoey. i'm going to try cheney's csf's in the next couple weeks.

Please keep us posted. I hope you have success.

BTW, are you seeing Dr. Cheney or simply following the protocol?

 

[kcleejackson]

Hey everyone, I have read a lot of this but not all, too much brain fog to comprehend it all. How much does it cost to do stem cell treatment and someone said there is like a 10% death rate, is that true? I am bedridden with severe cfs and really need to try something soon.

 

[kcleejackson]

Sadly I agree with you Spitfire. I am bedridden with cfs and my aunt who had breast cancer a year ago is now back working a full time job and traveling as well. Hugs!

 

[JanisB]

Stem Cell Treatments in Texas

Hi All,
I haven't gotten answers to all my questions, but I did get two very interesting pieces of information from a conversation yesterday with a 70-something year old who got stem cell treatments.

1. The stem cells are isolated from your own blood and grown in a culture of amino acids, vitamins, and nutrients. They are not treated with chemicals or viruses to make them pluripotent.

2. Each injection is about 1/2 million cells. The injections are done subcutaneously, usually in the belly, but can be done near the site(s) of greatest need. For example, this individual had some in his lower trapezius and his system healed degenerative disks in his thoracic spine. Intravenous stem cell infusions end up mostly in the heart and lungs, which is why this clinic is exploring subq.

3. The quick response of people to these stem cell infusions is presumably not due to cell replication because people are responding more quickly than the time it would take for the stem cells to repair body tissues. The current hypothesis is that the injection of stem cells affects the notch-delta signaling pathway (please don't ask me what that is -- I don't have the mental energy to research it) and works either by suppressing inflammation or some other factors that inhibit stem cell repair to mobilize rapid healing in the body.

4. Gave me example of an older woman, over 40 (but don't remember exact age) who had a dramatic reversal of paralysis.

I will be having another conversation with this individual quite soon, so if you have any other questions, post them!

 

[Peggy]

Hi Janis,
Based on your previous post and this last one, so the 5 treatments for $12,000 would include about 1/2 million stem cells each? Am I understanding that right? In other words, $12,000 would equal about 2,500,000 stem cells? Or are more injections done in each treatments? That's a pretty low number, for the record, though Steenblock's book on umbilical cord stem cells reports improvements with just over a million stem cells. I have mostly read that 20 million plus are needed for real improvement. Does anyone else have data on this? My understanding is that Dr. Cheney's patients are getting a much higher number, more along the lines of 40-45 million.
Peggy

 

[JanisB]

1/2 million per injection, 2 injections per treatment, therefore 1 million per treatment.
Those 40-45 million sound more and more appealing!

 

[mojoey]

I'm curious how much are in the (Name removed at request of the company. PM individual for more info) transfusion?

 

[dipic]

Cheney Newsletter: Update on Stem Cell patients

Hi guys, just got this in my email this morning. It's a preview to the latest Cheney Research Newsletter (#10). Note that it is just that... a preview. You'll need to subscribe to read the full articles but I still thought this was relevant and interesting enough to post and hopefully stimulate some discussion.

This is an image screencap of the email. This is the easiest way I could think to post it. Hopefully it isn't too large.

 

[herbqueen]

Would like to more know on the cheny article on stem cells as well a the water discussion-- anyone subsribe to this and can net this out?