Freddd, thank you. I'm going to start again using your recommendation here.
I've also been reading more of these posts these last few days.
Saw your latest revised protocol here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...tocol-with-micro-titration.17818/#post-273588
Also this post on the stages of Methylation healing here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/the-stages-of-methylation-and-healing.21725/page-2
One thing I was interested was in the half life of the deadlock quartet. You've stated the Methyl Folate is 3 hours, also somewhere that the AdoCbl is 99% gone in 24 hours. I'm cautious about starting again. Today I took just 1/4 of the Jarrow 1mg and 1/4 of the Country life Dibencozide (no folate). I imagine starting methylation like getting a large ship moving. You can't just hit the brakes but need to wait for it to slow on it's own. If symtoms can be resolved with more MethlyFolate and Potassium then great we are not herxing yet... But If a true herx happens I want to know I can hit the brakes. Withdrawing the Folate should do that?
I was going to ask about EOD (Every other day) or ETD (third day) dosing. What Lotus just posted above from Rich indicates that some of their subjects did just that: "
Three of the patients found it necessary to
decrease their dosage frequency to every second or third day for several days, until they couldtolerate the full daily dosage schedule."
Regading that you mention this: "Taking l-methylfolate in small dose once a day may turn methylation block off and on again ecah day which will tend to make the folate insufficiency symptoms ("detox') get wporse and worse. These are rthe oscilations of symptoms that gets worse and worse, the longer it is pumped, like a kids swing being pumped higher and higher by the same leg movements.. "
So I'm guessing that's not the way to go. Better to keep on steady with lower dosages then start and stop...
Hi Sregan,
I imagine starting methylation like getting a large ship moving. You can't just hit the brakes but need to wait for it to slow on it's own.
I don't find that to be the way it works. Partial methylation block turnes on and off in layers by observation. However, methyltrap is a binary on/off. If you take just enough MeCbl to break out of methyltrap you will then suddenly have b12 deficiency symptoms instead of extereme folate deficiency symptoms. If you take enough MeCbl to break out of methyltrap and enough to prevent the b12 defiency symptoms, then it will go into folate deficiency symptoms. You can imagine anything you want. I wouldn't bet on it though. Medthylation starts. You can either chose to start it and KNOW you are starting it and be prepared for low potassium or you can play methylation roulette and have it possibly start any old time catching uypi unprepared and misinterpreting it.
If symtoms can be resolved with more MethlyFolate and Potassium then great we are not herxing yet... But If a true herx happens I want to know I can hit the brakes. Withdrawing the Folate should do that?
So what kind of rigors, extreme chills and fevers have you gotten from the herx reactions in the past? Those are the hallmark symptoms as the bacterial toxic material is extremely pyrogenic; As far as betting on what is happening I would put my money on Low potassium and/ot low folate 95 time out of 100. Then we come to low l-carnitine, Low D, magnesium, SAM-e, D-ribose, biotin and perhaps half a dozen more. Based on my experience I have NEVER seen an actual herx reation form MeCbl, AdoCbl and l-methylfoalte. The odds for genuine herx appear to be less than 1 in 10,000. With most examples of herx the person is over it before anything they can do about it. A herx reaction indicates what HAS happened, massive amounts of bacteria dying all at once releasing the toxins out of their cells into the blood all at once. I I have actually experienced it, from antibiotics as is usual, after 4 months of antibiotic resistant illeness leading up to pneumonia. I have heard a lot of frightening stories that had that word in it but have never seen an actual example from anything other than drugs that kill a lot of bacteria in hours. MeCbl etc doesn't do that. It takes the immune system some months, by experiience and observation, to build up to working properly. There is absolutely nothing about the vitamins that kills bacteria in hours releasing their toxins. That is perhaps some kind of wishful thinking in a way. I would like to be able to claim that kind of immune power to these but there are is a lot of healing that has to happen. I have followed the course of healing closely in hundreds of people.
Let's look at the half lifes then. While 99% of the B12s are out of the body in a day, it takes about 3 days for b12 deficiency symptoms to start getting worse after a number of doses. The AdoCbl has a 99% loss from the bloodstram in 24 hours BUT once it is in the mitochondria it appears closer to 71 day tissue halflife. The l-methylfolate has about 3 hours halflife. I go into folate insufficiency simply by missing a single dose or having it blocked by potassium.
So let's examine turning off methylation fast and hard. That happens going into methyltrap. After a single dose of MeCbl that might take a week to go back into methyltrap. That turns off healing. So when methylation block for any reason hits hard the order is like this by my observations. When it happens by itself the person typically wakes up terribly sick thinking they have some horrid virus or something. The fatigue hits like a ton of bricks. Coming OUT of methyltrap can be intense too. First the epithelial cells stop reproducing and things like canker sores, angular cheilitis, IBS, ulcerations in the mouth, throat, stomach and intestines, skin problems. Then emotional and personality changes occur. About a week in body wide inflammation and pain start spreading, joints become increasingly inflamed and painful. The MCS, allergies and asthma come on pretty strong and then immune funtions start going hyper sensitive and hyper reactive, and possibly start doing autoimmine things. Of course if they have never recovered from these things then there is no real change. The thing is, the immune syytems sits on top of the funtionality of both methylationan and ATP. It takes cell reproduction and things like that to ramp up the immune system.
If you get a real genuine herx reaction and you are still alive (death is rare) 24 hours later you may be blessed. You will have mostly gotten rid of the resitant/hidden bacteria that has made your life misery. When I had a herx reaction with my resistant pneumonia, I was getting sicker and sicker. Nothing worked. The doc ordered in some kind of antibiotics, we were trying 3 a day (backwoods Maine). I was going to end up in the hosipital and possibly dead if it didn't work. If nothing works resistant pnemonia is quite deadly. The herx started about an hour after the injection of antibiotics. I called the doc and he said, if we don't continue the antibiotic it could become resistant to the only thing able to kill it right now and it will kill you. Go outside and keep your fever below 104. (It was 40 below in January and I was sitting in my PJs on the front porch waving at all the bundled up skiers. I probably could have dried 30 sheets that day (Tummo, how many wet sheets can the monk dry on a freezing day with their body heat?).