Started Ubiqinol (Q10) Interested in how it worked or not for others

[Wishful]

It is not possible to get adequate nutrients just from diet, no matter how high quality it is. It takes over 8,000 calories a day to get 100% of the DV of each nutrient.

I meant to ask in my previous post, is your estimate of what's required to get the DV based on RDA's, which are admitted to be overestimated, and intended to meet the minimum needs of all but 5% of the population that for some reason need far more than normal? If so, that would be trying to meet an unreasonable target. If you assume more reasonable nutrient requirements, most people probably meet them with a reasonable diet. Dietary deficiency doesn't seem to be a major health concern in the developed world. It does occur in individuals with really bad diets or with specific medical problems, but that's outside of 'normal'.

 

[pamojja]

. It does occur in individuals with really bad diets or with specific medical problems, but that's outside of 'normal'

Uhm, with what I see majorly sold in markets (industrially prepared foods) and most of the elderly population on multiple prescribtions - bad diets and specific medical problems seem to be what's completely 'normal'.

 

[Wishful]

I suppose that's true. I honestly have no idea how normal people live these days. I was always atypical, and that's grown much worse with ME.

 

[Wolfcub]

Update: I finished the whole big pack of bio-available Q-10, and took it as recommended.

It made no difference at all for me. I have been having more frequent crashes throughout Spring, and even since I had been taking it, and my baseline is slipping from what it was during the winter (November/December and most of January)-for sure.
So I can say that for me, it was no help.

 

[Wolfcub]

Ubiquinol causes methylation. You could be one of those overmethylated people who will have side effects.

I have never been able to tell if I am over methylated or not. I have read about it all over the place and still not understood it in relation to myself.
But maybe the complete lack of side effects in my case shows that I'm not (?) I never got any ill-effects from the Q-10.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

To be honest, none of the half dozen or so supplements I've tried have made any difference

Frequently I feel I just cannot discern differences between taking this or not taking that. I notice with the herbs I take, but not the supplements. Other people I sometimes know just swear all these things are doing all these things and I am: a bit suspicious. But then generally: I am pill suspicious.

I try to only introduce one new variable at a time. It is nice to have recent dietary adjustments: result in a direct noticeable improvement in a bunch of things.

Ok: my desert island will not include that One Loaf of Bread.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Wolfcub , @jesse's mom
I noticed in your first post (I just stumbled on this thread today, so am coming to the party pretty late) that you said you were taking Q10 'tablets'.

To be absorbed effectively, Q10 needs to be accompanied by a fat or oil. Otherise it just sort of glides on thru.

I take mine first thing in the AM, even before breakfast, with 3 or 4 tablespoons of olive oil. Less oil would also probably work. CoQ10 does have the irritating side effect of over-energizing you, or at least keeping you awake at night, if you take it too late.

If you ever decide to give it another whirl, try taking it with a good quality oil, or even butter (butyric acid is good for you), and take it first thing in the AM.

 

[Wishful]

I have never been able to tell if I am over methylated or not. I have read about it all over the place and still not understood it in relation to myself.

I don't understand the 'methylation stuff' either. If we don't know which methyation-affected genes are involved, or whether they're over or under expressed, how should we know which way to influence them? I suppose one could try the methylation protocol and see if it has an effect on one's symptoms, but that applies just as well to anything that might affect one's body. What if ME involves one gene that is underexpressed and one that is over expressed? Are there methylation protocols that affect different genes?

Given the lack of knowledge about what is involved with ME and how methylation might affect it, I've just ignored the methylation stuff.

 

[Wishful]

Frequently I feel I just cannot discern differences between taking this or not taking that. I notice with the herbs I take, but not the supplements. Other people I sometimes know just swear all these things are doing all these things and I am: a bit suspicious. But then generally: I am pill suspicious.

It's the same for me. Occasionally I encounter something that has a significant effect. In rare cases, the effect continues for more than just a few tries. For treatments with less significant effects (and which don't stop working after the first couple of doses), I repeat experiments until I can be sure that it's not just my imagination. Then I have to judge whether the slight not-just-my-hopeful-imagination treatment is worth the extra expense, hassle or, in some cases, unpleasant taste.

So far, of the things that have a significant effect, ones with negative effects greatly outnumber the ones with positive effects. Not fair.

In my 18 years of ME, I've only discovered five things that have had a significant positive effect for more than a couple of days or weeks, and only two of them still work reliably. When I see someone post a long list of the treatments or supplements they claim work for them, I too am a bit skeptical about the actual effectiveness.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Then I have to judge whether the slight not-just-my-hopeful-imagination treatment is worth the extra expense, hassle or, in some cases, unpleasant taste.

Example of all that: I try a few drops of the now infamous CBD extract. I think I did notice that it helped with a couple of symptoms, but it smelled really awful and that parked in my sinuses and the stink lasted for hours.

Yuck. Don't want to try it again.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I take 300mg of q10 per day and that makes a big difference to me. It does take weeks to have a proper effect though I think.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Rufous McKinney

Example of all that: I try a few drops of the now infamous CBD extract. I think I did notice that it helped with a couple of symptoms, but it smelled really awful and that parked in my sinuses and the stink lasted for hours.

Not sure which brand you tried, but there are several highly reputable, really good sources, and pretty affordable as this stuff goes.

Lemme know, and I'll send you some rec's that I've tried and can vouch for.

 

[Sophiedw]

Yes, and depending on one's genes and environmental factors, there are other mito nutrients that can help, too (or not), like NMN, NAD+, NR, asparagine, manganese, copper, iron, d-ribose, phospholipids, BCAAs, ALA, and glutathione.

Hey! Where did you get asparagine might I ask? I can’t find it anywhere. Also can you recall why one might take it?

All the best

 

[Learner1]

Hey! Where did you get asparagine might I ask? I can’t find it anywhere. Also can you recall why one might take it?

All the best

https://www.jomarlabs.com/products/l-asparagine

I took it because my mitochondrial content had gone up, at the same time that my asparagine level had dropped below range. This is significant because asparagine induces autophagy.

My doctor and I hypothesized that my mitochondrial content went up to 150% of normal from being less that 50% normal, because I was making more mitochondria and then the old fat sloppy ones couldn't die off, in the normal recycling process.

Taking two grams a day of the asparagine for about 9 months reduced my mito content back to where it was, and my asparagine level looked fine on my tests. I've discontinued it, but I'm ready to try it again if needed.

 

[Sophiedw]

Hey Learner,

That’s really reassuring and interesting thank you. For some reason in the UK it’s sale is controlled? Possibly because of the links to breast cancer metastasis? It’s very hard to find any information on it.

I’d been making good progress taking some other aminos and keep leading myself into induced deficiencies. I know I should test myself more but it’s too expensive so I have only these tools of observance at the moment. However, I did find a more cost friendly amino panel that will hopefully be accurate, hopefully that can guide me.

Anyway anything that messes with my gaba/glutamate balance appears to give me a variety of different sleep seizure activity/ hallucinations and general waveyness or terror, a new brand of which has been creeping up on me this last week, which is made worse by l-serine, the amino acid that was treating a very similar symptom that was working well the last few weeks. It’s so weird how that can happen, once the cure then exacerbating a similar symptom.

Anyhow I do some more research into glutamate metabolism and there sits asparagine, in the centre of it all, the one amino I’ve been neglecting. So it seems to be a reasonably robust guess to me but we shall see when it arrives. One lesson here is how reckless it is to supplement single aminos, I’ve made myself the most ill I’ve been doing it. But I have this weird specific illness where all my muscles are held stiff by my brain and then release in certain conditions and seem to suck all my vital nutrients from my blood causing acute deficiencies of stuff. Interesting from a biomedical stand point but not that fun. It’s all to do with stress and nutrient levels and seems centrally mediated, a possible cousin of m.e for sure but with little immune system involvement.

Anyhow thanks for the reply, did you find taking asparagine depleted any of the other aminos that you noticed?

 

[Arius]

I tried various forms of Co-Q-10, all useless. The knock-off brands gave me constipation and had no other discernable effect. Ubiquinol is expensive but I was able to try a bottle. It didn't make me constipated but also had no discernable effect.

However, I don't seem to respond at all to any of the things that work for other people, so you may have a better experience.

 

[Learner1]

I tried various forms of Co-Q-10, all useless. The knock-off brands gave me constipation and had no other discernable effect. Ubiquinol is expensive but I was able to try a bottle. It didn't make me constipated but also had no discernable effect.

However, I don't seem to respond at all to any of the things that work for other people, so you may have a better experience.

Ubiquinol is something used in complex I of your mitochondria, every minute of every day. I don't know why it by itself would make you constipated, perhaps you're allergic to an ingredient in the formulation.

The big question is, do you need to supplement it? Have you been tested? If you don't need it, it wouldn't help you. Or maybe you need other nutrients that would.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

However, I don't seem to respond at all to any of the things that work for other people, so you may have a better experience.

Few of us do .... it's one of the baffling aspects of this little gopher mound of an illness ....and it makes zeroing in on the things that will help all the more challenging. But not impossible. Just .... irritating.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Anyway anything that messes with my gaba/glutamate balance appears to give me a variety of different sleep seizure activity/ hallucinations and general waveyness or terror, a new brand of which has been creeping up on me this last week, which is made worse by l-serine, the amino acid that was treating a very similar symptom that was working well the last few weeks. It’s so weird how that can happen, once the cure then exacerbating a similar symptom.

I have the same sensitivities to anything glutamate or aspartate, or any of their twisty little cousins, altho with different symptomatic expressions. I have to watch what I eat or take carefully.

I've found that in many cases, when something suddenly stops working, it's because its work is done, and I have to find something new to pick up the traces where product XYZ left off, and go forward from there. Lather, rinse, repeat endlessly...

 

[Wishful]

I have the same sensitivities to anything glutamate

I came across something interesting yesterday: glutamine doesn't cross the BBB easily, yet the concentration in the brain is much higher than in the blood. Astrocytes convert proline into glutamine, which it releases as fuel for neurons.