Start Low and Go Slow - How to Be Safe On A Methylation Protocol

[caledonia]

This is a compilation of information I find myself repeating to people over and over. I finally got it written up into a document, and I will have this linked in my signature as well.

Note: I have uploaded a new version with a new section on potassium deficiency on methylation startup.

This document covers:

Start Low and Go Slow
Trial and Error
Heavy Metal Detoxification
Overmethylation
Potassium Deficiency (Hypokalemia)
Keeping a Symptom Journal
Self Muscle Testing
How to Divide Supplements
Anti-Depressants and other Psychiatric Medicines
How to Divide a Psych Drug

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Really helpful advice, thank you.

 

[abporter]

This is a compilation of information I find myself repeating to people over and over. I finally got it written up into a document, and I will have this linked in my signature as well.

This document covers:

Start Low and Go Slow
Trial and Error
Heavy Metal Detoxification
Overmethylation
Keeping a Symptom Journal
Self Muscle Testing
How to Divide Supplements
Anti-Depressants and other Psychiatric Medicines
How to Divide a Psych Drug

@caledonia Thanks for this! Have you compared Rich's SMP with Yasko's new SMP that you list in your footer? I just downloaded it from Scribed (thanks to you!) and am also looking at what Rich's latest SMP recommendations were on the CFS_Yasko yahoo forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CFS_Yasko/conversations/topics/20045. My guess is Rich would have put his seal of approval on Yasko's SMP since he derived his SMP from Yasko. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on the two or have tried Yasko's SMP? I might also post this as a new thread to get other peoples thoughts and/or experiences with either or both.

 

[maryb]

@caledonia
thank you for taking the time to put this together, such good advice. People like you who do so much for the benefit of others whilst sick yourself have my utmost respect.

 

[PeterPositive]

Yes, thank you very much. I think many people will benefit from your recommendations. I wish I had read those when I started the B vit protocols. Fortunately when I was very sick I trusted my intuition and avoided the megadoses of folate and cyanoB12 that my doctor was going to give me. Although my symptoms are not exactly like CFS I was reacting to very small doses of anything including homeopathic remedies!

Fortunately now after 1+ year of gradual therapy I am able to handle active Bs in decent quantities although my methylation is still quite crappy

Thanks again for your advices.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia Thanks for this! Have you compared Rich's SMP with Yasko's new SMP that you list in your footer? I just downloaded it from Scribed (thanks to you!) and am also looking at what Rich's latest SMP recommendations were on the CFS_Yasko yahoo forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CFS_Yasko/conversations/topics/20045. My guess is Rich would have put his seal of approval on Yasko's SMP since he derived his SMP from Yasko. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on the two or have tried Yasko's SMP? I might also post this as a new thread to get other peoples thoughts and/or experiences with either or both.

@abporter What Yasko calls simple and what Rich called simple are two different things - lol. Yasko starts you off with "only" 7 supplements, which are in and of themselves made up of many supplements.

So while it's simpler and cheaper than her original protocol...sheesh. For my SNPs, assuming I even tolerated everything she recommended, I would be taking 24 different things for a total cost of $912.

That being said, I am taking her new All In One Multi and doing well with it. Once you add some active B12 to it, it's very powerful. I'm only taking 1/32 of one pill twice a week and that's plenty for now. I think this could be the core of a simplified program, but I'm still experimenting with it, and so haven't wanted to comment yet.

I also reference her nifty COMT/VDR chart all the time to help people figure out what forms of B12 to take.

 

[abporter]

@abporter What Yasko calls simple and what Rich called simple are two different things - lol. Yasko starts you off with "only" 7 supplements, which are in and of themselves made up of many supplements.

So while it's simpler and cheaper than her original protocol...sheesh. For my SNPs, assuming I even tolerated everything she recommended, I would be taking 24 different things for a total cost of $912.

That being said, I am taking her new All In One Multi and doing well with it. Once you add some active B12 to it, it's very powerful. I'm only taking 1/32 of one pill twice a week and that's plenty for now. I think this could be the core of a simplified program, but I'm still experimenting with it, and so haven't wanted to comment yet.

I also reference her nifty COMT/VDR chart all the time to help people figure out what forms of B12 to take.

@caledonia Thanks! I saw her new All in One multi and think I will start with that (maybe one pill a day, although 3 /day is the serving size). I did see on her CMT/VDR chart that I should be taking hydroxy or adenosyl B12. This probably explains why taking methylB12 can wipe me out. When you say you are taking 1/32 of one pill, is that of the multi or the active B12? Do you grind it up to get it that small? It must be tiny. Did you notice a difference after starting it? Is that the only two you're taking right now? I'm tempted to order the 2oz bottle Rich mentioned from NT factors (something like 'Youthful Energy', good marketing...lol) even though he mentions taking it later.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia Thanks! I saw her new All in One multi and think I will start with that (maybe one pill a day, although 3 /day is the serving size). I did see on her CMT/VDR chart that I should be taking hydroxy or adenosyl B12. This probably explains why taking methylB12 can wipe me out. When you say you are taking 1/32 of one pill, is that of the multi or the active B12? Do you grind it up to get it that small? It must be tiny. Did you notice a difference after starting it? Is that the only two you're taking right now? I'm tempted to order the 2oz bottle Rich mentioned from NT factors (something like 'Youthful Energy', good marketing...lol) even though he mentions taking it later.

That's 1/32 of the All in One. It's powder in a gel cap so it's easy to subdivide into empty gel capsules. See my Start Low and Go document for tips on how to do that.

I'm doing 16mcg of methylcobalamin and 4mcg of adenosyl. Found out I don't tolerate hydroxy even though my SNPs call for it.

Things I've noticed - metal detox symptoms (flu-like aches and tired), reduction in MCS, reduction in nighttime wakeups with pounding, racing heartbeat. This is all good stuff showing that methylation is happening. I have methylation at a very low level so I can tolerate the metal detox. That should resolve within about 6 months based on the last time I did metal detox.

I'm also doing electrolyte support for my adrenals, Kreb's cycle/mito support, and CBS maintenance supps. Then stuff left over from before which I should be able to drop eventually - taurine, Zoloft and Amour thyroid. I've already been able to drop GABA and CoQ10, and reduce the amount of adrenal/electrolyte support, Zoloft and Armour thyroid.

I looked into the Smart Youthful Energy, but it's expensive, so I decided to skip it. I just started support for SOD2 which addresses oxidative stress and the mitos, basically the same role as Smart Youthful Energy, but I think in a different way. It's too soon to say anything except for I'm tolerating a small amount of it.

 

[abporter]

@caledonia Rich in his SMP recommended starting with 1/4 of a tablet and increasing to 2 tablets. How did you decide on 1/32 of a capsule?

 

[abporter]

@caledonia Also, just a discovery, I saw a MTHFR specialist in Austin before doing 23andme. He found I was not methylating properly and was borderline low in folinic acid. He prescribed me 5mg of Leuvocorin(folinic acid) twice a day and a compounded mixture of methylB12, hydroxyB12, P5P, and something else. After seeing Rich's SMP, I realized tonight I am taking 50 times the amount (10mg /day) of the folinic acid that he recommends to begin with (200mcg) with no adverse affects. The methylB12 and hydroxyB12 amounts are 1.875mg per injection every other day. I do them subcutaneously. I have just taking it again tonight, but have not felt wiped out this time. I just ordered Yasko's multi and the perque hydroxyB12. Since I'm able to tolerate these higher doses so far (now at least), I'm wondering if I need to start as small. I imagine it varies for each person.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia Rich in his SMP recommended starting with 1/4 of a tablet and increasing to 2 tablets. How did you decide on 1/32 of a capsule?

Read the Start Low and Go Slow document in my signature for details and methods, but basically an amount low enough that I don't feel metal detox symptoms.

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia Also, just a discovery, I saw a MTHFR specialist in Austin before doing 23andme. He found I was not methylating properly and was borderline low in folinic acid. He prescribed me 5mg of Leuvocorin(folinic acid) twice a day and a compounded mixture of methylB12, hydroxyB12, P5P, and something else. After seeing Rich's SMP, I realized tonight I am taking 50 times the amount (10mg /day) of the folinic acid that he recommends to begin with (200mcg) with no adverse affects. The methylB12 and hydroxyB12 amounts are 1.875mg per injection every other day. I do them subcutaneously. I have just taking it again tonight, but have not felt wiped out this time. I just ordered Yasko's multi and the perque hydroxyB12. Since I'm able to tolerate these higher doses so far (now at least), I'm wondering if I need to start as small. I imagine it varies for each person.

I did a quick search and it looks like folinic acid can also cause methyl trapping (as will methylfolate) if taken in an amount higher than B12. This will stop methylation, therefore you won't get any effects from it, and you will seem to tolerate it.

The ratio should be something like 5:1 B12 to methylfolate or 5:3 B12 to methylfolate.

Have some nicotinic acid on hand before you start, in case you run into overmethylation...read Start Low and Go Slow for details.

 

[abporter]

I did a quick search and it looks like folinic acid can also cause methyl trapping (as will methylfolate) if taken in an amount higher than B12. This will stop methylation, therefore you won't get any effects from it, and you will seem to tolerate it.

The ratio should be something like 5:1 B12 to methylfolate or 5:3 B12 to methylfolate.

Have some nicotinic acid on hand before you start, in case you run into overmethylation...read Start Low and Go Slow for details.

@caledonia Thanks, very helpful! Would you have the reference for the ratios you mentioned and methyl trapping? I wouldn't mind showing it to my doctor to educate him. Maybe it's in your Start Low... doc, I'll take a look.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I looked into the Smart Youthful Energy, but it's expensive, so I decided to skip it.

Where did you find the Smart Youthful Energy? My doctor recommended it, but I cannot find it.

Have some nicotinic acid on hand before you start, in case you run into overmethylation

Will niacinamide serve the same purpose?

 

[abporter]

@Little Bluestem I found it here: http://www.propax.com/nt-factor-lipids/

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia Thanks, very helpful! Would you have the reference for the ratios you mentioned and methyl trapping? I wouldn't mind showing it to my doctor to educate him. Maybe it's in your Start Low... doc, I'll take a look.

I made up the ratios based on recommendations for amounts from Rich Vank, and I think maybe Ben Lynch. Look at Rich's Simplified Methylation Protocol and Ben Lynch's MTHFR video (links in my signature).

 

[chilove]

Thanks so much for putting this together! You rock!

This is a compilation of information I find myself repeating to people over and over. I finally got it written up into a document, and I will have this linked in my signature as well.

This document covers:

Start Low and Go Slow
Trial and Error
Heavy Metal Detoxification
Overmethylation
Keeping a Symptom Journal
Self Muscle Testing
How to Divide Supplements
Anti-Depressants and other Psychiatric Medicines
How to Divide a Psych Drug[/qu

 

[SpecialK82]

Thanks Caledonia, these pieces that you are putting together are priceless!!

 

[NilaJones]

You write so beautifully! Clearly and concisely, even when explaining complex stuff! Do you write professionally?

 

[Seven7]

@caledonia For my combination (COMT --, VDR +-) they say all 3 types of b12 forms (less methylb12) in Yasko. Does that mean take all 3, or just choose of the type???. Tx for all the work!!!