According to this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18653969
Mn-SOD (SOD2) can be induced by pycnogenol.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18653969
Mn-SOD (SOD2) can be induced by pycnogenol.
SOD2 A16V homozygous mutation - anyone else?
- Thread starter Thinktank
- Start date
That is probably one of the reason's pycnogenol helps with ADHD and other conditions related to ROS. Interesting that "Mn-SOD (SOD2) inhibited HIV-1 replication" that would help explain some of the immune issues I had.
But I have to wonder if the SOD2 SNP means you are unable to make SOD2 or just making a smaller amount. Yasko has not looked at the SOD SNPs yet.
I have taken pycnogenol in the past -- in what I thought were high doses. It seemed to help -- but I still had issues with free radicals given all the conditions I had. I wonder if an even higher dose would have been enough or if the limitation is with my genes. I wish they would look closer at the impact of the SOD SNPs. Anyone find any in vitro studies on the SOD SNPs?
But I have to wonder if the SOD2 SNP means you are unable to make SOD2 or just making a smaller amount. Yasko has not looked at the SOD SNPs yet.
I have taken pycnogenol in the past -- in what I thought were high doses. It seemed to help -- but I still had issues with free radicals given all the conditions I had. I wonder if an even higher dose would have been enough or if the limitation is with my genes. I wish they would look closer at the impact of the SOD SNPs. Anyone find any in vitro studies on the SOD SNPs?
I have read that the SOD2 SNP's cause 40% reduction...I think they've done studies with mice that show they die if they can't produce any SOD2.
There is one argument that upregulating the gene via pycnogenol would be preferable to supplementing with a mimetic because (and correct me if I am wrong) it would seem that you need to get SOD2 actually in the mitochondria - if you induce the gene that is what happens, whereas if you supplement with SOD2 you would have to take a large amount and just hope that some ends up in the mitochondria?
Maybe that suggests people who benefit from SOD mimetics are lacking intracellular SOD rather than Mn-SOD? (as I understand it Tempol replaces all types of SOD, not just SOD2).
There is one argument that upregulating the gene via pycnogenol would be preferable to supplementing with a mimetic because (and correct me if I am wrong) it would seem that you need to get SOD2 actually in the mitochondria - if you induce the gene that is what happens, whereas if you supplement with SOD2 you would have to take a large amount and just hope that some ends up in the mitochondria?
Maybe that suggests people who benefit from SOD mimetics are lacking intracellular SOD rather than Mn-SOD? (as I understand it Tempol replaces all types of SOD, not just SOD2).
40% is good to know. I had issues related to oxidative stress since birth – but I was able to compete in sports in my youth and obviously was otherwise healthy. I do remember having extreme fatigue in high school – needing to go often to the nurse’s office to lie down as I felt like I could not put one foot in front of the other. It is hard to say what caused it though as no doctor at the time was ever very concerned about it. I was not having active asthma attacks at the time. It could have been allergies or even anemia. At the time, I just thought I was up late reading. Now that I think about it, I would get faint trying to get up from a chair.
I went to college without much in the way of health problems. It was not until I went to school in England that I had severe asthma issues again. I just assumed it was the old manuscripts and books in the Bodleian that were stirring things up for me. It was very strange that I was gasping for air, unable to breath and yet I could not wake up enough to get help. I was still having problems in the morning and was then told about the severity of my distress by people who somehow did not know from which room the gasping and choking noises originated.
Allergies could have stressed out my adrenals in my youth. It could be that the SOD issue was at fault but without a thorough exam at the time, I will never know.
I do think that age and additional stressors over time are what pushed me over the edge.
If you follow the mitochondrial theory of aging, it would suggest that someone with mito issues or SOD2 issues will experience earlier and more severe aging if there is no intervention. Everyone encounters more stressors over time – how one reacts has to do with their genetics and health habits such as nutrition, sleep and relaxation etc.
I have done an extensive literature search on Tempol and talked to several researchers and even a Nobel laureate about it. There are even in vitro studies that show it penetrates the mitochondria – which is the only way it impacts ATP production and get the results it does.
I have to wonder if pycnogenol at the right dose would “normalize” my system. Hard to say what that dose would be. Maybe at some point in the future I will switch over for a few months and see what happens. Fibroids are supposed to return within a few weeks of going off Tempol. If an adequate dose of pycnogenol does not likewise keep them at bay, then I have my answer. Any suggestions on what an adequate dose is?
Also, I want to wait to do this as my body is still repairing and I want to make sure my hemoglobin counts are high enough to take the risk. I had signs of heart damage from the anemia the last time I was in the hospital – so I want to make sure my body is repaired before taking this on.
After I do that experiment, I want to test to see how low of a maintenance dose I need to be on of either substance to keep my fibroids suppressed.
Be aware that my results will be for my genetics and health conditions. Someone with an SOD2 SNP and some of the glutathione enzyme issues may have more oxidative stress – throw on heavy metal exposures or infections and the picture is even worse.
mtDNA is also not tested by Yasko. 23andMe tests only a small portion of it. Even the labs that are testing mtDNA do not fully understand the SNPs and combinations as it is so new. Those with mitochondrial disorders know this full well – and their health searches will provide more answers for all of us.
I do think that an initial dose of Tempol or pycnogenol would need to be higher in order to get the oxidative stress in balance. ROS generates more ROS – as does the plaques and damage it causes. I think once it is under control, a lower maintenance dose of either substance could be given.
I went to college without much in the way of health problems. It was not until I went to school in England that I had severe asthma issues again. I just assumed it was the old manuscripts and books in the Bodleian that were stirring things up for me. It was very strange that I was gasping for air, unable to breath and yet I could not wake up enough to get help. I was still having problems in the morning and was then told about the severity of my distress by people who somehow did not know from which room the gasping and choking noises originated.
Allergies could have stressed out my adrenals in my youth. It could be that the SOD issue was at fault but without a thorough exam at the time, I will never know.
I do think that age and additional stressors over time are what pushed me over the edge.
If you follow the mitochondrial theory of aging, it would suggest that someone with mito issues or SOD2 issues will experience earlier and more severe aging if there is no intervention. Everyone encounters more stressors over time – how one reacts has to do with their genetics and health habits such as nutrition, sleep and relaxation etc.
I have done an extensive literature search on Tempol and talked to several researchers and even a Nobel laureate about it. There are even in vitro studies that show it penetrates the mitochondria – which is the only way it impacts ATP production and get the results it does.
I have to wonder if pycnogenol at the right dose would “normalize” my system. Hard to say what that dose would be. Maybe at some point in the future I will switch over for a few months and see what happens. Fibroids are supposed to return within a few weeks of going off Tempol. If an adequate dose of pycnogenol does not likewise keep them at bay, then I have my answer. Any suggestions on what an adequate dose is?
Also, I want to wait to do this as my body is still repairing and I want to make sure my hemoglobin counts are high enough to take the risk. I had signs of heart damage from the anemia the last time I was in the hospital – so I want to make sure my body is repaired before taking this on.
After I do that experiment, I want to test to see how low of a maintenance dose I need to be on of either substance to keep my fibroids suppressed.
Be aware that my results will be for my genetics and health conditions. Someone with an SOD2 SNP and some of the glutathione enzyme issues may have more oxidative stress – throw on heavy metal exposures or infections and the picture is even worse.
mtDNA is also not tested by Yasko. 23andMe tests only a small portion of it. Even the labs that are testing mtDNA do not fully understand the SNPs and combinations as it is so new. Those with mitochondrial disorders know this full well – and their health searches will provide more answers for all of us.
I do think that an initial dose of Tempol or pycnogenol would need to be higher in order to get the oxidative stress in balance. ROS generates more ROS – as does the plaques and damage it causes. I think once it is under control, a lower maintenance dose of either substance could be given.
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I have ordered some, will let you know.
These guys:
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-203/c60-olive-oil-buckminsterfullerene-buckyballs-in-oil.html
(but I am in the UK, you might have better options if you're US).
Reservatrol was one of the substances I used for myeloma. Of course the oncologist insisted that it was useless, that they had tested all the “best resveratrols” and they had no effect on cancer. He said surely I was poisoning myself with B vitamins etc. and that I should stop all supplements and consider thalidomide.
I persisted with all sorts of alternative treatments – and yes, resveratrol tested high on the list. There was an MLM resveratrol that tested the best – even above the trans-resveratrols. I even went out picking knotweeds and different knotweed cousins that grow near ponds to make teas and tinctures.
I am cancer-free. Looking back at my supplement regime, diet and all the treatments, it was like running a marathon with all the prep work. I had no time or energy for anything else.
After all that, I still had issues which I had not realized at the time were related to oxidative stress and the SOD2 SNP. I did not find Tempol until much later.
Was it a matter of getting the dose right or did I simply have too many toxins or both? I also wonder if it is a matter of age making me more sensitive and reducing my ability to clear toxins.
I think the SOD2 SNP needs more attention. I think it causes oxidative stress that impacts BH4, neurotransmitters, NO and other pathways. I think coming up with a list of conditions or symptoms related to the SNP would help people figure out if they have their oxidative stress under control – by whatever means and dose works for them. That is the heart of the simplified Yasko approach -- to look at symptoms and conditions.
And it should probably be one of the SNPs noted to be treated first on the methylation reports and detox pathway reports – because free radical stress directly effects cellular health and function – no doubt about it.
I persisted with all sorts of alternative treatments – and yes, resveratrol tested high on the list. There was an MLM resveratrol that tested the best – even above the trans-resveratrols. I even went out picking knotweeds and different knotweed cousins that grow near ponds to make teas and tinctures.
I am cancer-free. Looking back at my supplement regime, diet and all the treatments, it was like running a marathon with all the prep work. I had no time or energy for anything else.
After all that, I still had issues which I had not realized at the time were related to oxidative stress and the SOD2 SNP. I did not find Tempol until much later.
Was it a matter of getting the dose right or did I simply have too many toxins or both? I also wonder if it is a matter of age making me more sensitive and reducing my ability to clear toxins.
I think the SOD2 SNP needs more attention. I think it causes oxidative stress that impacts BH4, neurotransmitters, NO and other pathways. I think coming up with a list of conditions or symptoms related to the SNP would help people figure out if they have their oxidative stress under control – by whatever means and dose works for them. That is the heart of the simplified Yasko approach -- to look at symptoms and conditions.
And it should probably be one of the SNPs noted to be treated first on the methylation reports and detox pathway reports – because free radical stress directly effects cellular health and function – no doubt about it.
I have the SOD2 A16v homozygous mutation and I get unpleasant side effects from taking methylfolate. I am thinking it may have to do with increased NO activity and impaired (low) SOD levels to detox it.
I am looking into trying Extramel melon extract, which has SOD microencapsulated palm oil, to see what it does.
Does anyone with this mutation have experience taking SOD supplements?
I am looking into trying Extramel melon extract, which has SOD microencapsulated palm oil, to see what it does.
Does anyone with this mutation have experience taking SOD supplements?
You might be interested in my post on MitoQ: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/significant-improvement-on-mitoq.35238/
Thought you might be interested to know that I did not see any improvement from Tempol, but I now have from MitoQ: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/significant-improvement-on-mitoq.35238/
howirecovered
Senior Member
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- 167
I'm also +/+ for SOD2 A16V and have problems on the other two SOD2 genes tested by 23andme as well. I think this discussion is mostly over my head but still think I can point out something you may be overlooking. I believe these SNP's result in a deficiency of hydrogen peroxide in our bodies which lead to proliferation of nasty things in our guts. I didn't say bacteria because in my case I think my gut was overrun with mold and fungi. You can look at the pictures if you want and make your own call.
Anyhow, I've been taking hydrogen peroxide, doing bowel flushes and enemas, in the stuff that's coming out is clearly very toxic.
See http://howirecovered.com/hydrogen-peroxide-therapy/ and http://howirecovered.com/my-biofilm-exorcism/
I'm interested in this discussion of supplements that can address our SOD flaws and would like to hear any updates you guys may have since this thread was started some time ago...
Thanks!!
Anyhow, I've been taking hydrogen peroxide, doing bowel flushes and enemas, in the stuff that's coming out is clearly very toxic.
See http://howirecovered.com/hydrogen-peroxide-therapy/ and http://howirecovered.com/my-biofilm-exorcism/
I'm interested in this discussion of supplements that can address our SOD flaws and would like to hear any updates you guys may have since this thread was started some time ago...
Thanks!!
@howirecovered
Thanks for posting your articles. That is quite some biofilm you relocated!
I have 2 homozygous SOD snps. I have been taking SOD in the form of Extramel French Melon extract, 150 I.U. per day. It has given me more ability to tolerate the sun, and it may have been a factor in be becoming able to tolerate methylfolate. Dr. Lynch claims that low electrolytes, low glutathitone and low SOD levels are 3 culprits in methylfolate side effects. I would say it has helped me somehow.
Thanks for posting your articles. That is quite some biofilm you relocated!
I have 2 homozygous SOD snps. I have been taking SOD in the form of Extramel French Melon extract, 150 I.U. per day. It has given me more ability to tolerate the sun, and it may have been a factor in be becoming able to tolerate methylfolate. Dr. Lynch claims that low electrolytes, low glutathitone and low SOD levels are 3 culprits in methylfolate side effects. I would say it has helped me somehow.
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aquariusgirl
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homozygous for 1 sod snp here..too....
howirecovered
Senior Member
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@howirecovered
Thanks for posting your articles. That is quite some biofilm you relocated!
I have 2 homozygous SOD snps. I have been taking SOD in the form of Extramel French Melon extract, 150 I.U. per day. It has given me more ability to tolerate the sun, and it may have been a factor in be becoming able to tolerate methylfolate. Dr. Lynch claims that low electrolytes, low glutathitone and low SOD levels are 3 culprits in methylfolate side effects. I would say it has helped me somehow.
thanks Sherpa, very interesting!! I found your other thread here - I too have had problems with tolerating the sun and mfolate... I was getting migraines after short sun exposure and also significant extra fatigue. I now think that the cause of the migraines was increased immune system activity related to vitamin D. But I'm going to explore supplementing SOD for sure.
Hmmm.. migraines. Just a thought: There are a studies that show that high-dose riboflavin (B2) cuts down migraine activity. I also found taking B2 quickly improved my ability to tolerate methylfolate. I posted about my experience in the "B2 I love you!" thread. Good luck!
howirecovered
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I have experimented with B2 and it did nothing for the migraines. I'm fairly certain now of the source being related to that mold growing inside me - which by the way could possibly have developed while living in South Florida because that's where my health really deteriorated seriously.