Simon Wessely on XMRV

[cold_taste_of_tears]

Wessely is a fascist.

How?

Definition of fascism:.A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls,
suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

How? A fascist follows, fascism doctrine/ideology.

What has this world come to when someone who calls people who are dying of ME

''Disgusting'', and they should feel ''Blame'' and ''Guilt''. What the hell?

He links allergy and chemical sensitity as simiar to beliefs in ''Spirits'' and ''Demons''
WTH?! Tell that to an Asthmatic.

Does he says this about African Americans? Does he says this about Islam?
Would he be allowed to. How about orphans, or blind people, or the paraplegic?

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING A F&C7ING DORMAT TO THIS CREEP.
WHY ARE WE TERRORISED BY ONE LITTLE BE-SPECTACLED MAN?
(Shades of Heinrich Himmler).

He is nothing more than a theorist. That is all. He creates theories that vulnerable diseased people are to blame for their own suffering.
Tha Nazi's did this, making posters and leaflets that told Germans that disabled cripples and the mentally retarded were a drain on the German Economy.
They were then discretely terminated.

Haven't we seen people do this in history time and time again? Genocidal Xenophobic maniacs? Yes.
If you are given ZERO medical funding for your disease, and ZERO medications and help - then you also being discretely terminated.

How is covering up the suffering of MILLIONS of people around the world any different - by accusing them of their own sufferance?
It's vomit inducing. Disgusting and foul. He is pure filth.

If someone says due to a disease I am disgusting and should feel blame and guilt for being infected with a virus- the gloves are off because it's discussing people who are denied medical
care to stay alive. People like you and me. He has RUINED my life through his hateful dispicable disgusting 'theory' on a group of humans by simply stating we are all of the same mindset.

Just like Hitler did. No human has an identical universal midset and should be brainwashed (CBT). To suggest it is an absurdity.

ME Agenda lady, please send me the stuff posted on the facebook WPI.
Do not give into his Nazi.

E.g.

If homosexual's with CFS ME are disgusting are homosexuals with HIV/AIDS ''disgusting'' also?

He's a Jewish immigrant to Britain, shall I start saying Jews ''Whine'' about the Holocaust?
Just as he says we whine for slowly dying? Source: Wessely, S. (1990) Old wine in new bottles: neurasthenia and 'ME', Psychol Med. 1990 Feb;20(1):35-53.

So I am whining huh? What a nasty piece of work he is. Pure evil.

Where's the difference? You can't help having ME (a disease) any more than being in the Holocaust because of your faith.

You can't state (as a theorist - psychiatrist) on ME in the public eye, then prevent what you said from being printed that's insane.
It's dictorial, it's censorship - which is the definition of what a fascist does.

Almost an insane as saying

''Viral attribution (reflects) somatization - par excellance''

I personally have been destroyed by this walking oxygen thief.
What next, shall we have Hitler signs in doctors offices and do a salute in medical school?

What a disgrace to humanity this man is.
I'm sure his dad is proud after escaping the terror in WWII coming to the safety of the UK and to have created such a monster in the UK all these
years later? What a huge shame he is - on his ancestors.

The shame is on Wessely not the millions of people he causes untold misery and suffering upon by endless countless poison rhertoric about ME CFS.

Like we all know, the second ME CFS patients get tested for XMRV - he'll be a little more concerned with patients taking HIM to court the world over!
Americans should put a warrant out. Americans too can quote research, lies, and medical falsification of their history - that leads to their disease worsening.

After all if a man produces FALSE research based on a THEORY of MS - and people with MS suffer immense medical hardship - then this man is to blame.
Get him, capture him bring him to justice in a court room.

And there will be millions of us watching like in the Nuremberg trials and liberation of Europe.
XMRV will liberate people accused of so much - when they were innocent.

Racial and faith discrimination exists. Well so does disabled discrimination and disabled rights.
How can we be denied access to a pain clinic? How can we be denied access to a counsellor?
On the basis of a lie - that people where told that 'people like us' should be 'de-medicalised'?

What the hell? De-Medicalised? That is the most sick thing you can invent in a multi system disease
process.

Anyone who calls me 'disgusting' for 20 years of MEDICAL NEGLECT HE CAUSED is going to pay, and pay hard.

I'm sure the UK Hospital trusts are weeing themselves, trying to destroy all the medical records of ME CFS patients in the UK as we speak.

Too late, too late.

We're coming for YOU - and we're using SCIENCE not violence.

Soon it's OUR turn to make YOU feel like us.

Starting with printing your lovely ''research' on ME CFS all over the Internet, Newspapers, meetings/groups, disabled rights groups, gay and lesbian groups,
human rights groups, the UN. TV, Radio.

It's time he paid his Karmic Debt.

Not that this will bring back Sophia Mirza, and the other people who are passed away - because they were ordered to be neglected by a theorist.
How ironic.

A theorist with an MD, not a practising doctor.
A theorist who just happens to be employed by the military and the civil service for their conveniance and OUR detriment.

Incredible. What a total travesty of justice.

 

[Holmsey]

Wessely is a fascist.

Regarding this entire posting, well balanced, fair, constructive, reasoned, rational and appealing. None of these words apply, and on that note I'll leave you to it, sorry, I'm not up for adding victimhood to my list of ills and I'm struggling to see that this site is about anything else but wallowing chest deep in it.

 

[Katie]

I'm not up for adding victimhood to my list of ills and I'm struggling to see that this site is about anything else but wallowing chest deep in it.

That's out of line Holmsey. You may not have had the same ME/CFS experience as many people in the UK, all of us have had different ones, but if you had ME/CFS during the eighties and nineties you would have had a far different experience, especially if you were a child.

I've purposely stayed out of this debate because it is so emotive but it is important to understand the historical context behind the whole psychiatric angle. You are looking at a history of children being told that their parents are making them ill, psychologists hospitalising children so they could 'treat' them when the parents weren't present, parents have been labled as emotional and/or physical abusers and forced to move and children were taken into care, especially in the eighties. Children were labelled as 'school phobic' or 'attention seeking' and denied medical care that would 'feed' their mental illness. Children are still being put on antidepressants as a matter of course because depression is a standard diagnosis in this 'mental illness'. Adults have been denied treatment in hospitals and had disgusting comments placed in their medical records. There is much more history but I don't want to drag anyone's personal story into this because I don't have the right to do that.

This history is based upon the inappropriate high regard given to psychological research. It is treated as hard science when at best it can only show correllations or indications. Wessely has been a creator of this research which decrees sufferers as continuing to manifest their illness behaviour because of an inability to cope due to trauma, excluding all other possibilities because their science is 'good'. In fact there are people who's ME symptoms could be attributed to psychological reasons, but Wessely and his school of thought have overstepped their boundaries, credibility and their ethical responsibilities by making such claims as science and all inclusive. Their homegenous outlook as damned many of us, excluding the possibility for other scientific points of view.

Children may not be taken into care at the same rate as in the eighties and nineties but the damage remains. I've seen the sudden attitude of nurses and doctors in A&E change because of the mention of ME even when going in for a suspected broken foot. They disengage and you are no longer a person, you are a malingerer and a seeker. How many of us have lost the love and respect of family, friends and work colleagues because of these associations? I've been lucky to have a supportive family, some are not so.

Wessely has been at the core of this, he is a figure head and a major contributor. Let me describe one scene, the specially built Kings College clinic for ME/CFS has a waiting room but the diagnostic room are built down the other end of a corridor. They watch you and take notes as you walk. You are a suspect, your motives are always questioned.

If you have a good doctor then you are lucky. Maybe in time when you've gotten to know more people with ME socially you'll discover that our experiences are not universal. I've had good ones and bad ones. I've had one in particular who was rude and confrontational towards me when I was thirteen years old, questioning me and I felt quite afraid. He was just a rubbish doctor in general though, not just rubbish with ME.

You may not see Wessely as a horrible demon, but do not deny the role he has played in the suffering of many. I see him more as a man misguided by his ego and dogmatic believe in psychiatry who believes he has greater insight than the patient. I do not see myself as a victim and I resent that comment immensely. Acknowledging an injustice is not victimhood. Feeling sad about our treatment is not victimhood. We are carrying on the best we can but those of us who chose to speak should not face accusations of being a victim.

Feel free to reply to my post but I am going to take a step back. I do not like to dwell on this subject, it is a waste of time and energy but I was taken aback by your comment which is certainly not in the spirit of this wonderful forum.

 

[Chrissie]

Well said Katie, I couldn't agree with you more.

I can only imagine Holmsey that you arent from the uk? I was diagnosed as a kid in the 90's, my parents were told by shrinks to lock me in a room and ignore me as I wasnt ill, merely attention seeking. And because they were being told this by doctors, they did this for a long time.

Wessley has caused alot of problems and pain for so many people, if we want to damn him to hell then we have the right to do so and I dont think anyone with ME is a victim, we are all survivors.

 

[Athene]

Unsubscribing to this thread

Holmsey, why don't you try some graded exercise therapy and see if you make a total recovery? I think you will.
And I think everyone on this forum who is seriously ill, like myself, knows what I am implying.

 

[I Wanna Be Well]

Ignore Holmsey

Hi,

Please just ignore Holmsey. Have a look at his posting history on here and you will see a certain pattern to them.

Anyway, I think that this thread has run it's course. This section is supposed to be about XMRV, not idiots like Wessely who will hopefully soon be consigned to the rubbish bin of ME/CFS history.

Cheers

 

[cold_taste_of_tears]

Regarding this entire posting, well balanced, fair, constructive, reasoned, rational and appealing. None of these words apply, and on that note I'll leave you to it, sorry, I'm not up for adding victimhood to my list of ills and I'm struggling to see that this site is about anything else but wallowing chest deep in it.

Wallowing?

Shall I phone a rape victim and tell her she is 'Wallowing' in victimhood?
Only a rapist would say such a thing.

Control Panel: Ignore List: Add Member: Holmsey

 

[garcia]

Well said Katie, I couldn't agree with you more.

I can only imagine Holmsey that you arent from the uk? I was diagnosed as a kid in the 90's, my parents were told by shrinks to lock me in a room and ignore me as I wasnt ill, merely attention seeking. And because they were being told this by doctors, they did this for a long time.

Wessley has caused alot of problems and pain for so many people, if we want to damn him to hell then we have the right to do so and I dont think anyone with ME is a victim, we are all survivors.

Well said Chrissie. I agree with you 100%. No victims here - only survivors.

 

[Min]

wallowing?

I've been housebound, mainly bed bound and in relentless pain for 22 years now, whilst Wessely and his chums have taken all the research and treatment funding and encouraged the UK medical profession and media to treat us like malingering scum. My child has grown up without a mother.

If I go to most UK health professionals I'm treated as a hypochondriac who would get better if she would only exercise. I even spent two years being told that the symptoms of an enormous kidney stone, including bright red urine and vomiting with pain, were imaginary. I have chronic Lyme disease and co-infections and am having to try to fund my own treatment as the UK medical authorities have declared it doesn't exist.

I'm not wallowing, I'm hopping mad & I'm campaigning for change, but these psychiatrists are immensely powerful.

 

[orion]

Holmsey, I'm curious to know what your background actually is. Are you an ME sufferer yourself? If you are, then how long have you been ill? Have you just been diagnosed? And what country you are in?

Don't feel obliged to answer the above questions if you don't want to. But I'm genuinely curious. As others have already commented, it seems extraordinary that, up until now, you've been unaware of Wessely and his coterie.

 

[MEKoan]

Please just ignore Holmsey. Have a look at his posting history on here and you will see a certain pattern to them.

It seems I'm not the only one who has come to think of this baiting as something other than it purports to be.

Too many things just make no sense.

Let us not allow ourselves to be had.

peace out,
koan

ETA Maybe Holmesy couldn't resist leaving a clue in his username: Holmes, doing a bit of sleuthing perhaps. The posts tell the tale.

 

[starryeyes]

Wessely needs CBT.

 

[blackbird]

I felt I hadn't been here long enough to jump in, but there was a distinct smell of troll.

Who's Holmes btw?

 

[Mark]

Welcome Blackbird! I think we all know who he is. Sorry, I feel embarrassed about having been so slow on the uptake and posted the previous in haste without catching up on the thread.

 

[Mark]

Wessely needs CBT.

He needs a lot of things...all in the fulness of time...

 

[Mark]

PS: apologies everyone for having been so naive about him before. He's formidable alright.

 

[Mark]

We appear to be pretty much overground now. Does anybody see any reason why I should not put the word out wider on all this (ie to my contacts list)? Are others doing the same with friends and contacts, or holding fire? I think pointing people at this thread and asking them to take a serious look at it, watching the videos if necessary to be convinced, is a very good starting point. Or should we not go to that stage yet?

 

[MEKoan]

Hey Mark,

I don't know what's going on on this thread. I've been so distracted by the member who likes to stir things up by denigrating the work of WPI on the Martin Pall thread and by holding forth in passionate defense of Wessely when he/she/it hasn't even heard of him!

That was such a huge distraction and source of division, both here and on the Pall thread, that the purpose of this thread has been erased.

I don't know what motivates this poster. I can't even begin to make sense of this behaviour: the lack of compassion, the supposed lack of knowledge, the unruly ego, the inability to hold a constructive conversation, the confrontational attitude, the demeaning comments...

Personally, I don't think we can draw any conclusions save some people are, for whatever reason, determined not to listen and to create discord.

Beyond that, who knows. I don't know who this is.

peace out,
Koan

 

[annunziata]

Regarding this entire posting, well balanced, fair, constructive, reasoned, rational and appealing. None of these words apply, and on that note I'll leave you to it, sorry, I'm not up for adding victimhood to my list of ills and I'm struggling to see that this site is about anything else but wallowing chest deep in it.

Holmsey, I have to add my name to those who have told you this is out of line.

One of the things that attracted me to this site (not having been active in CFS/ME advocacy or support groups for many years) was the obvious intelligence and decency and often, great kindness, of the various members. Seeing that so much good was still intact in people I knew had been through and were still in hell much or all of the time made me really respect them.

I admire the spirit and bravery of people here. Many, like me, have been through years of astounding suffering. Wessely and others of his school (we have them here in the States, too) have maligned us. They have obstructed real research and the possibility of proper treatment. They have created an atmosphere where desperately ill people are denied solace and support. His record speaks for itself and is, quite simply, indefensible.

Amy

 

[Holmsey]

Holmsey, I'm curious to know what your background actually is. Are you an ME sufferer yourself? If you are, then how long have you been ill? Have you just been diagnosed? And what country you are in?

Don't feel obliged to answer the above questions if you don't want to. But I'm genuinely curious. As others have already commented, it seems extraordinary that, up until now, you've been unaware of Wessely and his coterie.

Chose Orion's mail as it's the only one which doesn't appear aimed to do harm.
B. Holmes, Scottish, living in Scotland, IT professional, took ill three years back, diagnosed within a year of that, fortunate enough to be able to work but not much else. Spent two years in denial, so severe and disperate were my 'verifyable' and other wise physical symptoms. Working for a medical health insurer I've been lucky enough to see three syptomatic specialists and one 'in the field', he doesn't like the term ME, so I was finally pressed into accepting a verdict of 'CFS', using the UK standard grid I check almost evey box, according to him, didn't get to see the 'grid' myself. I've missed work in periods but generally keep going, probably f*****g myself with over use of pain killers though.

Married, three kids, 49 yers of age. Prior to 'infection' I was, as I had been all my life' active in sports, rugby, basketball and Kung Fu, no more, so lots lost.

Spent two and a half years beleiving my GP's, that at some undefined point I'd just get better, then got a locum during a real bad spell, he's probably one of those you'd denigrate, suggested anti-depressants and asked me what I wanted him to do for me. Cheered me up no end by asking who'd told me I'd get better and suggesting, given my age, I probably wouldn't.

He really motivated me, seriously, he did, with anger. So, I decided, enough. Time to take matters into my own hands, it was only then that I bothered to look up more on the web than verification of my diagnosis. That was about six months back, since then I've tried TCM and acupuncture, sent off for Gupta's program, and having already read all about XMRV, still saw enough merit in spending on supplements identified by Pall. He was described on the alternate thread I was posting on as 'an alternate medical practitioner' if I recall correctly.

Spotted this thread and assumed Wessley, like Pall had something to offer someone with CFS who was interested in helping himself. Finding this not to be the case, I got carried away and attacked the man using the mail address supplied on this very thread, leading to a series of 'helpful' mails from the 'monster' himself.

Clearly I'm not finding help or making friends and so I'll wish you all well, I really do, I wouldn't stand to see anyone suffer if it was in power to stop it. But neither will I choose enemies until they choose me. If you knew me better, you'd know these are key stones by which I've lived my life, often to great personal cost.

To the thread followers, what no replies to my call for direct action? That's more my style that mumping, as we say in Scotland. I'm a Borderer by birth, we gifted the world words like 'Bereivment', back then to 'Be Reived', so fightings in my blood, this, this is just slow surrender or worse, kids throwing their toys from a pram.

Plenty insults though, any time I happened to tread on long held opinions, how dare anyone challenge us, haven't we deserved the right to savour our suffering.

Yes, I posted to the other thread, try standing back without suspicion and reading my postings again.

I've picked these gems from the mail to which I last replied, interesting that all of the subsequent comments refer to my reply and not one to that frankly, bizare, dare I say 'insane' posting.

Enjoy, -

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING A F&C7ING DORMAT TO THIS CREEP.
(Shades of Heinrich Himmler).
Tha Nazi's did this
Genocidal Xenophobic maniacs?
He's a Jewish immigrant to Britain, shall I start saying Jews ''Whine'' about the Holocaust?
I personally have been destroyed by this walking oxygen thief.
What a disgrace to humanity this man is.
Soon it's OUR turn to make YOU feel like us.
It's time he paid his Karmic Debt.

Good luck to all and I hope our recovery is just around the corner.