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Significant Improvement Story -- Focus on Thiamine Deficiency

Hanna

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One more question : something weird began on friday, I have very accute pain in right finger - inside the first articulation. The finger is slightly inflated but not red.
Could it be some gout or oxalate crystals symptom and may it be linked to B1 supplementation?
I have never had such thing.
 

NotThisGuy

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pattismith

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Thanks @NotThisGuy
No it isn't. There is no special visual aspect excepting that the finger looks a bit swollen. But each try to bend it gives huge pain inside of the first joint.
Hi Hanna,

I already had this problem from time to time, in association with frequent joint pains in the fingers, and one time a swollen painful ankle (acute mono-arthritis), and also spine pains, pelvis pains...

You have to rule out rheumatic diseases and hyperuricemia.
 

Hanna

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Yes you are right @pattismith I have to check the hyperuricemia (though I eat low animal source protein). Rheumatic diseases were ruled out several years ago by antibody testing.

I tend to think that it may be an oxalate issue, since I have introduced lately magnesium bisglycinate 2/day instead of my regurlar mag. malate and I read that glycine is the first step of endogenous production of oxalates.

I don't understand fully the mechanism of oxalate dumping when taking supplements like B1, B6 , but perhaps the small additionnal 50 mg of lipothiamine to my daily B-complex, together with the magnesium glycinate , my vitamin C in green juices, my recent chia seeds "yogurts" and home made halva (sesame/almond) treats made a bad oxalate cocktail.
 

pattismith

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Yes you are right @pattismith I have to check the hyperuricemia (though I eat low animal source protein). Rheumatic diseases were ruled out several years ago by antibody testing.

I tend to think that it may be an oxalate issue, since I have introduced lately magnesium bisglycinate 2/day instead of my regurlar mag. malate and I read that glycine is the first step of endogenous production of oxalates.

"Also in some individuals the glycinate may convert to glutamate or oxalates which can have toxic effects in the body."

I too take magnesium bisglycinate, so how can we know if we have an oxalate problem, is there a test?
 

Hanna

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"Also in some individuals the glycinate may convert to glutamate or oxalates which can have toxic effects in the body."

I too take magnesium bisglycinate, so how can we know if we have an oxalate problem, is there a test?
The OAT (organic acids test I think) test from Great Plains Laboratory gives you a fair indication of your oxalate status if it is elevated (a low number does not according to Susan Owens)

https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/gpl-blog-source/2016/8/8/oxalates

I would have liked some other way of testing (clinical picture of oxalate overload) as sending blood overseas from where I live isn't very reliable , even with fedex or dhl.
I didn't know that there was also a possible glutamate pb with the glycinate, thanks @pattismith .
 

Gondwanaland

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One more question : something weird began on friday, I have very accute pain in right finger - inside the first articulation. The finger is slightly inflated but not red.
Could it be some gout or oxalate crystals symptom and may it be linked to B1 supplementation?
I have never had such thing.
I have learned the hard way that my diet was too low in flavonoids and sulfur, which can confer instant relief for uric acid issues.
 

tango

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The more I learn the more convinced I am that severe chronic thiamine deficiency is a significant factor in my health issues. High doses of thiamine help but I think my transketolase enzymes or some thiamine dependent enzymes have stopped working - probably due to a combination of undiagnosed celiac disease, stress and a high carb and sugar diet from childhood. I want to kick those enzymes into action!

Other than cutting sugar and alcohol and taking lots of thiamine in different forms has anyone found anything else to help?

Various websites list different cofactors. Lonsdale says magnesium, another website I visited said folate and manganese. Any luck with those? I can’t take too much of any of them. Magnesium lowers my blood pressure, anything other than tiny doses of folate makes me hyper and I love manganese but again it lowers my blood pressure
 

sb4

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@tango I know this answer might seem weird but it could be worth a shot. So you could approach the problem by trying to improve all of your enzyme reactions in your body.

Deuterium is a heavy isotope of Hydrogen. So it can be in very high amounts in your body as most of your body is H2O. Enzymes have lots of water bound to them all across there structure. Some of that water will be deuterium. Deuterium slows chemical reactions down significantly as it is bonded differently than hydrogen and allows less proton tunneling.
So if you have higher levels than needed of deuterium, your enzymes reactions will be slower and your enzyme wont work as it should.
You can test for deuterium to see if it's raised, if you eat a standard western diet, drink bad water, have bad mitochondria, don't get much sun, and other problems you could have high D in your body.
To deplete deuterium you can drink deuterium depleted water, ketosis diet, sun and cold. I think these last 2 work by improving mitochondria function. Basically, the better your mito work, the more you can deplete deuterium in your own body by recycling the deuterium depleted water in your mitochondria. The mito effectively remove D with CO2 if I understand correctly.
I personaly have not tried this yet however I will soon.

Another thing again comes back to water. If you read Gerry Pollacks work on water, he shows that water can charge separate under light. Long story short, your enzymes are surronded by water and use proton tunneling to work (Jim Alkalili, JohnJoe McFadden). If you get lots of IR and UV light on your skin and blood you can charge seperate the water around your enzymes. This creates a bunch of free protons to use for the enzymes reactions.

If it's possible, try getting a lot of sunlight, and eating a ketogenic diet and see if it helps.
 

Gondwanaland

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Various websites list different cofactors. Lonsdale says magnesium, another website I visited said folate and manganese. Any luck with those? I can’t take too much of any of them. Magnesium lowers my blood pressure, anything other than tiny doses of folate makes me hyper and I love manganese but again it lowers my blood pressure
Thiamine contains sulfur. The co-factors of sulfur metabolism are B6 and Molybdenum (and B1!).
 

tango

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Thiamine contains sulfur. The co-factors of sulfur metabolism are B6 and Molybdenum (and B1!).
Well, that's different again. Derrick Lonsdale is supposed to be the expert and he says magnesium which I can't take. He has treated hundreds of patients with thiamine deficiency. I'm just getting my magnesium from celtic salt, pumpkin seeds and greens.

I do feel that B6 helps me although I'm only taking minute amounts at the moment as the body can't tolerate much right now. I've done well on Molybdenum in the past, I might try to take it. Thanks!
 

tango

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@tango I know this answer might seem weird but it could be worth a shot. So you could approach the problem by trying to improve all of your enzyme reactions in your body.

Deuterium is a heavy isotope of Hydrogen. So it can be in very high amounts in your body as most of your body is H2O. Enzymes have lots of water bound to them all across there structure. Some of that water will be deuterium. Deuterium slows chemical reactions down significantly as it is bonded differently than hydrogen and allows less proton tunneling.
So if you have higher levels than needed of deuterium, your enzymes reactions will be slower and your enzyme wont work as it should.
You can test for deuterium to see if it's raised, if you eat a standard western diet, drink bad water, have bad mitochondria, don't get much sun, and other problems you could have high D in your body.
To deplete deuterium you can drink deuterium depleted water, ketosis diet, sun and cold. I think these last 2 work by improving mitochondria function. Basically, the better your mito work, the more you can deplete deuterium in your own body by recycling the deuterium depleted water in your mitochondria. The mito effectively remove D with CO2 if I understand correctly.
I personaly have not tried this yet however I will soon.

Another thing again comes back to water. If you read Gerry Pollacks work on water, he shows that water can charge separate under light. Long story short, your enzymes are surronded by water and use proton tunneling to work (Jim Alkalili, JohnJoe McFadden). If you get lots of IR and UV light on your skin and blood you can charge seperate the water around your enzymes. This creates a bunch of free protons to use for the enzymes reactions.

If it's possible, try getting a lot of sunlight, and eating a ketogenic diet and see if it helps.
I just looked at my hair analysis but I don't think it was tested. I had to Google deuterium and I'm still not sure I understand what it is!

Water is an interesting one. I have rain water that is sterilised with a UV light filter.

I do try to spend a lot of time outside. I only put sunscreen on my face and we have very little ozone layer here in New Zealand so I should be getting plenty of UV and IR light. I am thinking of investing in an IR sauna but haven't made the jump yet. Does the light need to reach the eyes or is it sufficient to get it on the skin? I LOVE sunshine, it always makes me happy and energizes me. That's probably normal :)

According to Lonsdale and Marrs thiamine is key to mito energy. There are a lot of thiamine dependent enzymes.

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/mitochondria-energy-not-genetics-underlies-health-disease/

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/digging-deeper-mitochondrial-dysfunction/

They also mention estradiol as a factor. I'm not sure if that's for women only. I saw a man commenting so maybe it applies to men and women. Note, one of the interesting things in there that supports what you say about ketogenic diets is that mention in the article about estradiol is that glucose does not cross into the brain without estradiol. If you have metabolic flexibility you can run both from fat and carbohydrates but without it or without estradiol you probably can't effectively utilize carbs as fuel and can't get it to the brain for optimal function. Given how much my body likes estadiol I have possibly been deficient most of my life

"Estradiol Regulates Mitochondrial Function: Mitochondria Regulate Everything Else"
https://www.hormonesmatter.com/lupron-estradiol-mitochondria-adverse-reactions/

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/tank-estradiol-lose-metabolic-flexibility-lupron-oophorectomy/
 
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tango

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Hi Tango,

Have you tried transdermal applications of magnesium oil [magnesium chloride, which can also raise HCL levels]? It's the only magnesium supplement I take, and works quite well for me.​
Thank you, yes I have. It's the best tolerated of the magnesiums but I can still only take 1-2 drops.

I hadn't thought about it raising HCl. That's handy to know.
 

Gondwanaland

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@Hanna how did it go with the joint pain? I found a number of things to relieve joint pain from uric acid issues, which are closely geared with sulfur metabolism. My current understanding is that a slight nutrient unbalance will cause issues.

@tango my experience with estrogen matches your observations. Estrogen production needs manganese (which BTW relates with uric acid issues as well!) and GLA (this one is tricky!). B1, B2, B6 and Mg are pretty anti-estrogenic.
 

tango

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