Seeing Dr John Chia on Friday, What Questions Should I Ask?

[Hip]

Thanks for providing the paper, I was having trouble remembering it.

There are also several papers from the German researchers who investigated these autoantibodies to the ATP/ADP translocator in viral myocarditis patients:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2581297
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2155073
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8682105
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8974071
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9309698
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10615393
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24485628

What I will try to do is write up the info from the above studies in a new thread on this subject, so that you have the facts available to show Dr Chia. I'd be interested to know if Chia is aware of this ATP/ADP translocator autoantibody that enterovirus appears to be able to induce.

I have not heard Dr Chia talk about mitochondria and energy metabolism dysfunctions in ME/CFS, so he may not necessarily view ME/CFS in terms of such energy dysfunctions. He may view ME/CFS as a purely infectious disease. What I like about this enterovirus-induced ATP/ADP translocator autoantibody is that it may be able to explain why an enterovirus infection leads to a low energy state in ME/CFS patients.

 

[Jesse2233]

What I will try to do is write up the info from the above studies in a new thread on this subject, so that you have the facts available to show Dr Chia. I'd be interested to know if Chia is aware of this ATP/ADP translocator autoantibody that enterovirus appears to be able to induce.

That'd be great. I plan on dropping off the questions and associated notes a day or so ahead of my appointment so he has time to review it.

I have not heard Dr Chia talk about mitochondria and energy metabolism dysfunctions in ME/CFS, so he may not necessarily view ME/CFS in terms of such energy dysfunctions. He may view ME/CFS as a purely infectious disease. What I like about this enterovirus-induced ATP/ADP translocator autoantibody is that it may be able to explain why an enterovirus infection leads to a low energy state in ME/CFS patients.

Yes I'm very curious about this as well. If true, it may provide a unifying bridge between his work and Fluge + Mella / Davis / Scheibenbogen / MyHill

 

[Hope01]

That's likely the one. When I spoke to Chia last he mentioned that there are two promising compounds, both have been purchased by drug companies for development. One inhibits 2C and one inhibits 3Dpol.

Hi Jesse,
It would be good to get the code names for both compounds (not just compound 17) purchased by the drug companies and see what progress has been made with them, as he did state there were 2 potent CVB4 antivirals in development. Many thanks and look forward to hearing his answers to your questions

 

[Jesse2233]

Found out today that my appointment got pushed back to 5/16 :/

Will give updates when I see him

 

[eljefe19]

@Jesse2233 Yo Jesse are you going to do the special biopsy testing Dr. Chia uses to prove enterovirus infection?

 

[Jesse2233]

@Jesse2233 Yo Jesse are you going to do the special biopsy testing Dr. Chia uses to prove enterovirus infection?

Haven't decided yet, you think it's a good idea? Even if he finds them it could still be coincidence right?

 

[eljefe19]

I'm not sure. I was all set to do it and then my primary care told me not to. I was already taking oxymatrine so it wasn't like a positive test would have spurred further treatment options. Meh my CVB Titers were low anyways.

 

[Jesse2233]

I'm not sure. I was all set to do it and then my primary care told me not to. I was already taking oxymatrine so it wasn't like a positive test would have spurred further treatment options. Meh my CVB Titers were low anyways.

Interesting, why did your primary care doctor tell you not to?

 

[eljefe19]

Because it wouldn't have changed my treatment plan at all . And it's a surgery, albeit minor. He was a cautious af dude and honestly a terrible doctor.

 

[Jesse2233]

Ah got it. Yea, for me I suppose if he found a ton of CBV3 and no CBV4 it would make me a better candidate for interferon-gamma

 

[eljefe19]

See I had no significant evidence of Igg CVB. CVA tho yes.

 

[eljefe19]

Btw I'm sure I'll come up with some questions for Dr. Chia. I think number one how he connects his enterovirus theory with findings like suppressed PDH enzyme function. How would an enterovirus cause this to happen?

 

[Jesse2233]

See I had no significant evidence of Igg CVB. CVA tho yes.

Any other viruses?

 

[eljefe19]

Echovirus 7, HHV-6, and EBV all were slightly elevated. My most elevated titer was actually Chlamydia Pneumonia.

CVB1 and 5 were very slightly elevated.

 

[Jesse2233]

Echovirus 7, HHV-6, and EBV all were slightly elevated. My most elevated titer was actually Chlamydia Pneumonia.

CVB1 and 5 were very slightly elevated.

Ah ok, so echovirus 7 was your enterovirus. Did you ever try to treat the CpN?

 

[eljefe19]

Echovirus 7 1:80 IgM
CVB1 1:10 IgG
CVB5 1:10 IgG

What's CpN again?

 

[Jesse2233]

Echovirus 7 1:80 IgM
CVB1 1:10 IgG
CVB5 1:10 IgG

What's CpN again?

Chlamydia Pneumonia

Did you get the other CVBs tested?

 

[eljefe19]

Dr. Kaufman at OMI has been pretty hesitant to go deep in CVB but I believe we're testing them soon.

My CpN is also being tested again soon and then he's going to decide whether to treat. We haven't yet.

 

[Hip]

@Jesse2233, one question it would interesting to ask Dr Chia is: What is the relative efficacy of oxymatrine versus matrine? Is one better than the other for immunomodulation and fighting enteroviruses?

In Sophora root, there is both oxymatrine and matrine, and since Equilibrant contains Sophora root extract, I guess it will also contain both oxymatrine and matrine. In any case, I understand that oxymatrine converted to matrine in the body when taken orally.

What I have found is that the pharmaceutically pure oxymatrine product from Alternative Medicine Solutions (containing 300 mg oxymatrine per capsule) does not make me dizzy, whereas the White Tiger oxymatrine (with 200 mg oxymatrine per tablet) does cause dizziness.

I think this is because White Tiger is a herbal extract made from 1 gram of Sophora extract per tablet, so will contain oxymatrine, matrine, and other compounds from Sophora, and one of these compounds, probably matrine, must induce dizziness.

So if oxymatrine is just as good (or better) than matrine for immunomodulation purposes, the pure oxymatrine product from Alternative Medicine Solutions may be the one to go for, especially because it also does not make you dizzy.



Also, a related question is: Does oxymatrine potentially work for all forms of ME/CFS (whether triggered by enterovirus, herpes family viruses, or even triggered by vaccination), or is oxymatrine only useful enterovirus-associated ME/CFS?



By the way, do you remember my wild speculation in this earlier post about how the high 30% success rate (for major improvements) Dr Chia gets with oxymatrine might be connected to the fact Dr Chia is based in Southern California, and assuming many of his patients are locals, they are going have higher sunshine exposure, which leads to higher levels of vitamin D, which effects Th1/Th2 in complex ways.

Well, in this recent thread (which I think you have already seen), @gregh286 reported that a combo of oxymatrine and high dose vitamin D (25,000 IU) put him into full remission (only for 3 weeks so far though). But when he had previously tried oxymatrine on its own, it did not work at all. So perhaps vitamin D does boost the efficacy of oxymatrine.

 

[Jesse2233]

Just dropped off my questions and a print out of @Hip's post on enterovirus-induced ANT autoantibodies at Dr Chia's office ahead of my appointment tomorrow. Will try to get all the questions answered and report back