See the Shocking Moment She Went From Crippled and Bed-Ridden to Dancing in Worship

[barbc56]

I am Jewish.

So was Jesus.

 

[barbc56]

least they cared enough to try to help which is more than can be said for any atheist groups

We nonbelievers can also be quite compassionate. I don't think religion nor not being religious automatically grants you compassion.

Barb

 

[valentinelynx]

I have seen folks who had a "faith healing" with positive benefit. For example a patient in the pain clinic when I was doing my fellowship came in one week having been healed. In the cases I'm familiar with, however, the effect wears off after a few weeks or months. The "healed" then have a tendency to blame themselves for not having enough faith, or "letting the devil in". Whereas, this is generally the natural history of a placebo effect.

I'm not belittling the placebo effect. I wish I were more subject to it! I wish we could bottle it and apply as needed!

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

This person is not talking about a 'healing technique', she is talking about walking into a church and being healed. When has this ever been applied to people with ME as a 'healing technique'. This does not just happen. Rituals do not cure people from illness. If you are going to make fantastical claims, provide some proof. There isn't any. By the way, are only Christians healed -- what about Muslims, Jewish people, Catholics, Atheists, Buddists, etc, etc., etc..

I have not seen one person actually healed of anything via religion. And if it were the case, why this person?, why not heal the scars on her face? Why is she so much more deserving than the millions of people who go to church and worship everyday that are dying of various things? What about innocent babies dying of stuff -- why not save them? God works in mysterious ways -- doesn't he. Why are the rest of us being ignored? Sounds like discrimination to me.

I think this is just a money grab. and it makes me sick!!!

I'm not religious nor Christian so I can't answer those questions. I don't think anyone was saying only Christians are healed either. Maybe one of the religious believers on here can answer those questions though.

My only argument was that we shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that because someone (not her in particular) gets relieve from a non medicinal healing process, there illness must have been psychological. There hasn't been enough research on placebos to say its purely psychological and untrue.

At the end of the day I'm happy that someone diagnowith CFS feels better. Are you not? I'm skeptical just like you. But maybe we should all focus on the positives of the video instead of searching for the negatives?

 

[Undisclosed]

I'm not religious nor Christian so I can't answer those questions. I don't think anyone was saying only Christians are healed either. Maybe one of the religious believers on here can answer those questions though.

My only argument was that we shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that because someone (not her in particular) gets relieve from a non medicinal healing process, there illness must have been psychological. There hasn't been enough research on placebos to say its purely psychological and untrue.

At the end of the day I'm happy that someone diagnowith CFS feels better. Are you not? I'm skeptical just like you. But maybe we should all focus on the positives of the video instead of searching for the negatives?

The facts are this -- we don't know if she got relief from anything. Can a placebo cure diabetes, Cancer, liver disease. To even question if a placebo can cure ME is an insult to people with ME.

I am not going to condone this. There aren't really any postitives about this. It hurts our community and those who are sticking up for this kind of thing are not helpful. Severe ME can not be cured by faith, placebo's,by LP, by CBT, or anything else. Again, this kind of bullshit article makes me want to vomit.

 

[SOC]

I'm all for people with ME/CFS feeling better, however it's accomplished.

What I don't like is people fraudulently claiming they have a serious illness, then claiming they were healed, and then expecting other people to follow their false footsteps, or blaming them for not being healed, or worst of all, gaining money or prestige for their fraudulent behavior.

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

The facts are this -- we don't know if she got relief from anything. Can a placebo cure diabetes, Cancer, liver disease. To even question if a placebo can cure ME is an insult to people with ME.

I am not going to condone this. There aren't really any postitives about this. It hurts our community and those who are sticking up for this kind of thing are not helpful. Severe ME can not be cured by faith, placebo's,by LP, by CBT, or anything else. Again, this kind of bullshit article makes me want to vomit.

I think you have my comment wrong and are taking it out of context. Non medical healings aren't only used in ME. I'm sure if you type in "god cure me from cancer" on google tons of stories would come up. I was pretty surprised to see this video talk about ME as most talking about cancer and terminal illnesses.

I never said a placebo can cure CFS either so I'm not sure where that came from :'/ I was talking about illnesses overall and that placebos can have an effect on them. Maybe read through my posts again?

Here is an interesting article about placebos

http://www.shapefit.com/dark-side-placebos.html
They aren't all psychological placebos affect your neurology

 

[Undisclosed]

I think you have my comment wrong and are taking it out of context. Non medical healings aren't only used in ME. I'm sure if you type in "god cure me from cancer" on google tons of stories would come up. I was pretty surprised to see this video talk about ME as most talking about cancer and terminal illnesses.

I never said a placebo can cure CFS either so I'm not sure where that came from :'/ I was talking about illnesses overall and that placebos can have an effect on them. Maybe read through my posts again?

Here is an interesting article about placebos

http://www.shapefit.com/dark-side-placebos.html
They aren't all psychological

You have been continually making excuses for this woman. You believe her story. You then talked about placebos. Equating ME with placebos and faith healing makes me sick and it has no place on PR. I don't even know why the thread was started. Really. Lets take our illness seriously.

 

[leela]

I just really wish this story wasn't around ME. It doesn't do our case any favors.

 

[leela]

Plus, who gets scabby face--ME patients or crystal meth addicts?
I think they chose "ME" because it seemed a less embarrassing and more sympathetic debiliting circumstance than substance abuse.

 

[SOC]

You have been continually making excuses for this woman. You believe her story. You then talked about placebos. Equating ME with placebos and faith healing makes me sick and it has no place on PR. I don't even know why the thread was started. Really. Lets take our illness seriously.

I have to agree. There's no clean, documented evidence of LP, placebo effect, or religious healing working for ME (or many other illnesses for that matter).

We don't have to know how these magical healings work from a scientific perspective to document them scientifically. The patient needs to have a definite diagnosis by a medical expert (not a psych "expert") in the illness before the cure, followed by assessment by a medical expert in the field finding the patient no longer has the condition after the cure. Then a long-term follow-up to demonstrate that the cure was in fact a cure and not just a temporary change in the illness or a mistaken assessment of "cured".

So far I have seen nothing of the sort for any psych, placebo, or religious healing of ME. I've seen anecdotal "evidence" from people who were self-diagnosed, or diagnosed by non-experts by sloppy definitions.

I'm not saying psych, placebo, or religious healing might not work for ME -- just that there's absolutely no evidence that it does. So belief in such things is just that -- pure belief without evidence.

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

@Kina I'm sorry that you feel so defensive about me talking about placebos not being psychological which is what my initial posts were about. I honestly think we are debating two different things and I don't see how what I was initially talking about has come to this. Like i said, if you read my initial posts you will say that it has nothing to do with what you are talking about... If she did have cfs (which we won't ever know) then the only scientific way to explain her recovery would be a placebo. Placebos DO have physiological changes on the body and I was defending that it's not fair to assume she had had a psychological illness just because there it's much evidence on placebos. I'm not going to write out everything that I wrote before but your taking what I wrote and moulding it into something completely different to debate something that I cannot. I cannot debate something i didn't initially say.

At the end of the day if she did have cfs, I'm happy she is happy. That someone with cfs has had their pain lifted. These things happen in cancer too and there isn't any way of stopping them. As cfs becomes more recognised these healings will only become more common.

Anyways. I think this is my departure from this thread. I can't add anything more to this.

 

[Undisclosed]

@Kina I'm sorry that you feel so defensive about me talking about placebos not being psychological which is what my initial posts were about. I honestly think we are debating two different things and I don't see how what I was initially talking about has come to this. Like i said, if you read my initial posts you will say that it has nothing to do with what you are talking about... If she did have cfs (which we won't ever know) then the only scientific way to explain her recovery would be a placebo. Placebos DO have physiological changes on the body and I was defending that it's not fair to assume she had had a psychological illness just because there it's much evidence on placebos. I'm not going to write out everything that I wrote before but your taking what I wrote and moulding it into something completely different to debate something that I cannot. I cannot debate something i didn't initially say.

At the end of the day if she did have cfs, I'm happy she is happy. That someone with cfs has had their pain lifted. These things happen in cancer too and there isn't any way of stopping them. As cfs becomes more recognised these healings will only become more common.

Anyways. I think this is my departure from this thread. I can't add anything more to this.

Can placebo's cure cancer, MS, diabetes, hepatitis, AIDs, measles etc. Why in the context of ME?.

 

[rosie26]

My story is that "God" has given me discernment to know what's real from what is a fraud. It took me a while to figure out how to use that discernment, but now that I have gotten the hang of it, it's a lot easier to navigate through all the useless bullshit that I, as a chronically ill person, am subjected to religiously. (double meaning in that word)

DISCERNMENT: I highly recommend it.

I agree with Dreambirdie here about discernment. I have learnt that you can't really trust people completely. You can get very badly hurt and disappointed if you do. I guess it is a risk we take in life when we put trust in someone and as in marriage, you need trust. But you need to remember that that trust may get broken.

I don't put all my trust in Christians - they are human beings - they can blow it like anybody else. I agree whether you are Christian or not, compassion and love and kindness go a very long way. This world needs all the loving it can get.

 

[Wildcat]

.
.

There is a lot more to Amanda Varty’s shining ‘miracle cure’ story than a single ‘miraculous ME ‘cure’. There is some heavy duty and pretty extreme Evangelising going on in Amanda’s message.

I do not feel any more inclined to believe in Amanda's 'miraculous ME cure' story than in the 'miraculous resurrections' supposedly performed by the church she is raising money for!



Amanda Varty’s ‘story’ is not just an account of one supposed ‘miracle healing’, but part of a narrative propagated by a heavy duty evangelical church movement (‘Father’s Heart Ministries’) whose claims of “creative miracles, healings, and two resurrections from the dead” (!!!) is central to its global propagation.





On Amanda Varty’s Just Giving charity fundraising page she says she is walking a 10k Marathon to raise money for ‘Father’s Heart Ministries’, whose prayers supposedly produced the ‘miracle cure’ from ME.


Amanda Varty: “I am walking for Fathers' Heart Ministries because of the impact it has had in my own life.”
“In April 2012, we met John from Father’s Heart, a Christian charity which reaches out to the lost, hurting, addicted and homeless, and brings hope and support to turn their lives around. John came alongside us with prayer and practical support and, as he prayed with us, a miracle occurred…..”




Father’s Heart Ministry Prophet Russ Walden:

http://www.fathersheartministry.net/prophet-russ-walden/

“Russ Walden is a prophet and marketplace minister with over 30 years of service in the Kingdom of God. Russ and Kitty founded Father’s Heart Ministry in 2007 and since then have prophesied to thousands in 78 countries and all seven continents……


….In the prophetic ministry Russell’s life has given witness to a miracle ministry with creative miracles, healings and two resurrections from the dead. Russ has seen cancers and terminal diseases reversed through the power of prayer and the gifts of the Spirit. The ministry that Russ moves in is not just talking “about” Jesus but manifesting and activating the demonstration of Spirit and the demonstration of power.”




Fathers Heart Ministries ‘Prophet’ Russ Walden sounds less and less convincing the more he talks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Amanda’s other Testimonial is on the ‘Walking Free’ Testimonials page which tells the stories of people who were addicted to Class A Drugs.

http://www.walkingfree.org/testimonies

http://www.walkingfree.org/
.

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

Can placebo's cure cancer, MS, diabetes, hepatitis, AIDs, measles etc. Why in the context of ME?.

According to non medical healing they can be cured. It was in the context of ME because this is an ME forum and the video is about a lady with ME.



This is to everyone. Can I just ask to not be tagged into this thread by anyone, anymore please? I would really appreciate it.

 

[A.B.]

Amanda Varty’s ‘story’ is not just an account of one supposed ‘miracle healing’, but part of a narrative propagated by a heavy duty evangelical church movement (‘Father’s Heart Ministries’) whose claims of “creative miracles, healings, and two resurrections from the dead” (!!!) is central to its global propagation.

Target the vulnerable and promise healing if only they join the cult. Loot the converted.

It's just like psychobabble but with overt religious tones.

 

[brenda]

This is a pretty moving testimony:

http://www.walkingfree.org/tv_channel

One thing I have heard about addicts delivered by God from their addictions, is that they do not, like unsaved ex-addicts, go on to develop another addiction, like smoking or eating candy/sweets which will also be harmful to their health. Their addictive personality is set free. The church is full of these sort of people and I have met some of them. In one lovely little church in Aberdeen Scotland, there were two very emaciated young male ex-heroin addicts who sat with pride at the front of the meetings, faces shining with pure joy at what they had experienced. During the sermon, they would shout out 'praise Jesus' and make remarks in response to what they were hearing, oblivious to the fact that it is not 'done'. Possibly the brain damage they had received from the drug, had altered their ability to behave as expected by others. The people in the church and especially the pastor who would be very patient with them and respond to their interuptions and didn't mind in the least, they were just so happy to see what God had done to the young men who were more than happy to tell everyone what God had done to them.

I have also seen with my own two eyes miraculous events, added to the fact that God has allowed me to continue to live after so much has happened to me in my life, from mercury poisoning at 5 months and nine years of age, massive pesticide exposure, sexual abuse in childhood, two husbands with addictions, meaning high stress for me, failure of the medical profession to diagnosis autistic spectrum and therefore no needed help and support which amounted to much bullying and rejection, added to Lyme Disease with co-infections for which no treatment is possible at present, really makes me feel like it is a miracle that I am still standing and caring for myself with no help at all, and actually healing, after being in such a state that I have already described on this thread, and have actually died twice already, once in a dentists chair, and been near death once so how can I doubt reports of dead being raised?

For some people they are so determined not to open their hearts up to the possibility that there is a God (it is not a problem of mental belief) that they will deny anything that they see with their eyes, being so filled with anger. I was an atheist too, having been brought up as one, when I had an encounter with God (23rd September 1973 9pm) which I cannot ever deny.

There is a mixture of the false amongst the true however and indeed there are charlatans, in it for gain, but don't let that obscure the truth.

 

[Countrygirl]

Thank you Wildcat for posting a link to this organisation. All I can say, (as a Christian) is yuk! I find these claims, the twisted interpretation of Christ's teaching (in my opinion after 40 years since becoming a Christian) repugnant and dangerous, especially to the ill and vulnerable whom they exploit.

I have no doubt that a few Christian healings are genuine. (Brenda, I think I attended the same event you did..........it sounds very familiar to me. ) I also, as one or two people have mentioned above, have experienced that 'awesome power' on a very, very few occasions and without that, I don't think I would have had the courage to battle my way through 35 years of mostly severe ME.

The church described in the link sounds like the sort of place where you are expected to leave your brain behind in the car park before you go in. In my experience, such as it is, claims make by such organisations as this, rarely withstand close scrutiny. I was in such a church once at the time I became ill with ME. When I did not recover, they became very abusive, threw me out and forbade my friends to communicate with me, leaving me totally bereft at a time I was becoming seriously ill with an undiagnosed and very scary condition. It was a nightmare!. They didn't take passengers in their church they told me and someone who was sick reflected badly on their public image. I suspect people who are chronically sick in this church may also be unwelcome and be under pressure to say they are healed and deny their symptoms............now just where have we heard that before in the UK????

As a community, people such as Rich Van Koeynenburg, Dr Malcolm Hooper and other prominent doctors whose Christian faith has guided them to sacrifice much to help us, whether it is just their time, or even their reputations and career prospects, are those who provide us with a clearer picture of what following Christ means.

C.G.

 

[Countrygirl]

For some people they are so determined not to open their hearts up to the possibility that there is a God (it is not a problem of mental belief) that they will deny anything that they see with their eyes, being so filled with anger. I was an atheist too, having been brought up as one, when I had an encounter with God (23rd September 1973 9pm) which I cannot ever deny.

There is a mixture of the false amongst the true however and indeed there are charlatans, in it for gain, but don't let that obscure the truth.

We crossed in the post, Brenda.

We do have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water as some of it is, I have no doubt, genuine.

(For me, it was 9 pm on 22nd November 1981.............amazing and never forgotten and unexpected. it certainly helps get you through the challenges that life throws at you afterwards.)

C.G.