Rethinking Probiotics.

[Critterina]

I thought the references cited before in the thread were enough since the information is the same
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2621.2011.02717.x/abstract

Thanks. I only found the abstract - it's paywalled.

 

[Oci]

@Gondwanaland Great suggestions. Thank you. I didn't know you could get probiotics compunded too at the compounding pharmacy.

@Oci What natural thyroid do you take?

It is simply called Thyroid on the label but does have ERFA stamped on it.

 

[Avengers26]

@Oci How helpful do you find it? Where do you get it? If you can please PM me. Thank you.

 

[grizz39]

Ok,so now am really confused as to which probiotic to purchase. Any suggestions as to which one is the best for histamine? And anyone using prescript assist and had lasting benefits?

 

[Timaca]

I do have histamine intolerance and I've tried many probiotics that have NOT worked for me. I'm currently trying this Ultimate Flora one. I chose it because it has all Bifido strains. It *seems* that the Lactobaccilus strains give me problems histamine wise. Today is day 5 on this probiotic and so far, so good........ fingers crossed..

I recently tried Greek non-fat yogurt (1/2 to 1 ounce a day) and ended up with significant acne cysts on my face!!! I hadn't had those for years! (I've been off dairy for years....). It didn't really help my GI tract, although it did make my tongue look better.....

Best,

 

[JPV]

I'm currently trying this Ultimate Flora one. I chose it because it has all Bifido strains. It *seems* that the Lactobaccilus strains give me problems histamine wise.

That one still has a lot of Lactobacillus strains. There's another one by Renew Life, that I've taken before, that has only Bifido strains...

Renew Life Ultimate Flora Probiotic (25 Billion)

Bifidobacterium Lactis (A)
Bifidobacterium Lactis (B)
Bifidobacterium Bifidum
Bifidobacterium Breve
Bifidobacterium Infantis
Bifidobacterium Longum

 

[justy]

I have started on Custom Probiotics D Lactate free at a baby doe and no histamine/MCAS reactions so far.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I recently tried Greek non-fat yogurt (1/2 to 1 ounce a day) and ended up with significant acne cysts on my face!!! I hadn't had those for years! (I've been off dairy for years....).

That is a known symptom of PCOS/insulin resistance

I have started on Custom Probiotics D Lactate free at a baby doe and no histamine/MCAS reactions so far.

Those strains actually lower histamine, and one year ago when I tried them my histamine got so low that my bowel movements completely stopped

 

[maryb]

I do have histamine intolerance and I've tried many probiotics that have NOT worked for me. I'm currently trying this Ultimate Flora one. I chose it because it has all Bifido strains. It *seems* that the Lactobaccilus strains give me problems histamine wise. Today is day 5 on this probiotic and so far, so good........ fingers crossed..

I recently tried Greek non-fat yogurt (1/2 to 1 ounce a day) and ended up with significant acne cysts on my face!!! I hadn't had those for years! (I've been off dairy for years....). It didn't really help my GI tract, although it did make my tongue look better.....

Best,[/QUOT

I just looked at the probiotic in the link, it does seem to have a lot of Lactobaccilus strains in it.

 

[justy]

Those strains actually lower histamine, and one year ago when I tried them my histamine got so low that my bowel movements completely stopped

Is your histamine normally high or normal? I am desperate to LOWER histamine so I hope it does do that! the first night I had no histamine dump and slept all night with waking itching for the first time in months,. However, as is usual with me this has now worn off and last night was MORE itching than normal - I cant seem to win!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Is your histamine normally high or normal?

Do you mean in a blood test? There is no such a test available where I live. But from symptoms, on a scale from 0 to 5 I would say my histamine/susceptibility to triggers is 3, and my husband's is 3.8.

When I first realized histamine was an issue was when I took S. boulardii and got a great relief = slept well, no night time wake up to urinate, no back itching etc. S. boulardii didn't last though (Magnesium helped to some considerable extent before it). Later Spirulina helped a great deal as well.

Right now that everything else stopped working, I have been managing it with high manganese foods, while excluding the high oxalate ones. I am left with fresh herbs such as oregano, tarragon etc which I use daily on my dinner salad, and have been keeping brain fog away with them.

 

[Timaca]

That one still has a lot of Lactobacillus strains. There's another one by Renew Life, that I've taken before, that has only Bifido strains...

Renew Life Ultimate Flora Probiotic (25 Billion)

Bifidobacterium Lactis (A)
Bifidobacterium Lactis (B)
Bifidobacterium Bifidum
Bifidobacterium Breve
Bifidobacterium Infantis
Bifidobacterium Longum

That's the one I'm taking, except mine has 30 billion. Here it is on Amazon.

 

[Timaca]

That is a known symptom of PCOS/insulin resistance

Those strains actually lower histamine, and one year ago when I tried them my histamine got so low that my bowel movements completely stopped

Thanks for the thought, but I don't have PCOS or insulin resistance. I do think it is related to dairy....

 

[JPV]

That's the one I'm taking, except mine has 30 billion. Here it is on Amazon.

I think you must have posted the wrong link in your first post about it. All of the Renew Life probiotics aren't really labeled very differently. You really have to read the ingredient lists.

 

[Timaca]

I think you must have posted the wrong link in your first post about it. All of the Renew Life probiotics aren't really labeled very differently. You really have to read the ingredient lists.

It's the same link. But, I stopped taking it today (for the time being). I had taken it for 6 days and felt that it helped my intestinal tract with the bloat problem. And it seemed to help with brain clarity. But, I started having some reflux type symptoms in my nasal passages. I wasn't sure if it was from this probiotic or from having stopped the small amount of yogurt I was eating (stopped over a week ago) or if it was totally unrelated. So, today I started Align.

 

[JPV]

It's the same link.

No, they aren't the same...

First link you posted:
http://www.amazon.com/Renew-Life-Ultimate-Probiotic-Supplement/dp/B00FPNZCZU/
- Bifidobacterium lactis
- Bifidobacterium breve
- Bifidobacterium longum
- Lactobacillus acidophilus
- Lactobacillus casei
- Lactobacillus plantarum
- Lactobacillus paracasei
- Lactobacillus salivarius
- Lactobacillus rhamnosus
- Lactobacillus bulgaricus

Second link:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Flora-Probiotic-Billion-Formerly/dp/B00I5UZS36/
- Bifidobacterium Lactis (A)
- Bifidobacterium Lactis (B)
- Bifidobacterium Bifidum
- Bifidobacterium Breve
- Bifidobacterium Infantis
- Bifidobacterium Longum

The only reason I'm making an issue of it is because the Renew Life packaging is very confusing. Several products have the same exact name but contain different combinations of strains. If anyone is going to buy any of their probiotics they should make sure to read the ingredients carefully.

 

[Timaca]

No, they aren't the same...

First link you posted:
http://www.amazon.com/Renew-Life-Ultimate-Probiotic-Supplement/dp/B00FPNZCZU/
- Bifidobacterium lactis
- Bifidobacterium breve
- Bifidobacterium longum
- Lactobacillus acidophilus
- Lactobacillus casei
- Lactobacillus plantarum
- Lactobacillus paracasei
- Lactobacillus salivarius
- Lactobacillus rhamnosus
- Lactobacillus bulgaricus

Second link:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Flora-Probiotic-Billion-Formerly/dp/B00I5UZS36/
- Bifidobacterium Lactis (A)
- Bifidobacterium Lactis (B)
- Bifidobacterium Bifidum
- Bifidobacterium Breve
- Bifidobacterium Infantis
- Bifidobacterium Longum

The only reason I'm making an issue of it is because the Renew Life packaging is very confusing. Several products have the same exact name but contain different combinations of strains. If anyone is going to buy any of their probiotics they should make sure to read the ingredients carefully.

I stand corrected! I was taking the product with Bifido only. Today though I switched to Align to see if it would help my heartburn situation.....

 

[dihard]

I expanded on the researched list of probiotics and thought I'd share my notes. I've added some more brands, added CFU count, price per pill, etc.

+ indicates it's one of the good strains. x one of the bad ones. x? possibly bad.

- Brands
- Prescript Assist - soil https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JB2GOFI
- 145 million, $.83
- Arthrobacter agilis, Arthrobacter citreus, Arthrobacter globiformis, Arthrobacter luteus, Arthrobacter simplex, Acinetobacter calcoaceticus, Azotobacter chroococcum, Azotobacter paspali, Azospirillum brasiliense, Azospirillum lipoferum, Bacillus brevis, Bacillus marcerans, Bacillus pumilus, Bacillus polymyxa, Bacillus subtilis, Bacteroides lipolyticum, Bacteriodes succinogenes, Brevibacterium lipolyticum, Brevibacterium stationis, Kurthia zopfii, Myrothecium verrucaria, Pseudomonas calcis, Pseudomonas dentrificans, Pseudomonas fluorescens, Pseudomonas glathei, Phanerochaete chrysosporium, Streptomyces fradiae, Streptomyces cellulosae, Streptomyces griseoflavus

- Nature's way reuteri https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Primadophilus-Reuteri-Vcaps/dp/B000FL9EAG
- 5 billion CFUs, $.25
- +L Rhamnosus
L Acidophilus
+L Reuteri

- Pure Encapsulations Probiotic 50B http://www.vitacost.com/pure-encapsulations-probiotic-50b-50-billion-cfus-60-capsules
- Buy direct for ice
- 50 billion, fridge, 1$
- Safest (no histamine), 5x more than Seeking Health,
- Lactobacillus acidophilus,
+Lactobacillus rhamnosus,
+Lactobacillus plantarum,
+Bifidobacterium longum
Bifidobacterium lactis

- Align https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031RGL66
- B Infantis

- Now Saccharomyces Boulardii https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0053W995W

- Probiota Bifido has no lactobacillus https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A86JHMI
- 10 billion CFUs, $.80
- Bifidobacterium bifidum (4+ billion CFUs)
+Bifidobacterium longum (3+ billion CFUs)
Bifidobacterium lactis (2+ billion CFUs)
Bifidobacterium breve (1+ billion CFUs)

- Ortho Molecular Ortho Biotic https://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Biotic-Billion-capsules/dp/B01D8VMTX8
- Good but overlaps on rhamnosus in reuteri pearls and 100b strength double cost of vsl with no boulardii.
- Proprietary blend 20 billion CFU https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H3B0CW 1$ each
- Lactobacillus acidophilus
x?Lactobacillus paracasei
Bifidobacterium lactis
Bifidobacterium bifidum
+Lactobacillus plantarum
+Lactobacillus rhamnosus
+Saccharomyces boulardii
- 100bil https://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Biotic-Billion-capsules/dp/B01D8VMTX8 $2 each, no boulardii
- 225bil https://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Products-PRObiotic-Packets/dp/B005T7DPK6 $4 per packet
- 20bil powder https://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Biotic-Powder-51/dp/B000LVFKOE 1$ serving

- VSL#3 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CBY7MX6
- 115 billion CFUs 1$
- Streptococcus thermophilus
Bifidobacterium breve
+Bifidobacterium longum*
+Bifidobacterium infantis*
Lactobacillus acidophilus
+Lactobacillus plantarum
x?Lactobacillus paracasei
x?Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus †
- Best deal but has two that may be histamine producing unless the questionable/reclassified ones are histamine degrading
- * Reclassified as B. lactis
† Recently reclassified as L. helveticus

- Primal Probiotics
- $.75
- 10 billion CFUs
- Bacillus coagulans,
Bacillus subtilis,
Bacillus clausii,
+Lactobacillus plantarum,
Bifidobacteria bifidus,
+Saccharomyces boulardii,
Potato Starch.

- Solar Advanced Multi-Billion Dophilus
- L. acidophilus, LA-5
B. lactis, BB-12
L. paracasei, L. CASEI 431
+L. rhamnosus GG, LGG
- 5 billion CFUs


Reuteri Pearls are a good economical option if you want just one cheap probiotic. Pure Encapsulations Probiotic 50B is probably the best overall in terms of strength, coverage, and safe histamine strains. Get it from Vitacost not Amazon because Vitacost stores it and ships on ice. For single strains to round it out Align has b infantis and a Saccharomyces Boulardii might be helpful. Prescript Assist is unique from the rest in that it provides soil organisms instead of milk organisms, Chris Kresser says he gets good results with them and thinks they are histamine degrading.

A good rotation might be
- Wide spectrum: Prescript Assist and Pure Encapsulations 50B - main all the time or rotate
- Singles rotating: Reuteri, Align (b infantis), Now Saccharomyces Boulardii

I think a prebiotic is just as if not more important than a probiotic and should also be included. There are a bunch of different types of prebiotic and I don't think there's any consensus on which is best so I personally buy one of these two products (from the same company) that blends many prebiotics into one powder:

- Oligo30 https://www.amazon.com/Broad-Spectrum-Prebiotic-Dietary-Fiber/dp/B01B4ZE4LK - more types
- Great Gut https://www.amazon.com/Extra-Strength-Prebiotic-Dietary-Fiber-Blend/dp/B01MTJXNGS - dairy free

On a side note I was consuming a ton of homemade kefir when my histamine intolerance started. While kefir is a great probiotic I think I may have tilted my flora balance towards the histamine producing strains l casei and l bulgaricus which are in milk ferments.

 

[Gondwanaland]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26839073
Benef Microbes. 2016;7(2):265-73. doi: 10.3920/BM2015.0129. Epub 2016 Feb 3.
Glucolytic fingerprinting reveals metabolic groups within the genus Bifidobacterium: an exploratory study.
Rios-Covián D1, Sánchez B1, Cuesta I2, Cueto-Díaz S3, Hernández-Barranco AM2, Gueimonde M1, De los Reyes-Gavilán CG1.
Author information

• 11 Probiotics and Prebiotics Group, Department of Microbiology and Biochemistry of Dairy Products, Instituto de Productos Lácteos de Asturias, Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (IPLA-CSIC), Paseo Rio Linares s/n, 33300 Villaviciosa, Asturias, Spain.
• 22 Scientific and Technical Facilities, IPLA-CSIC, Paseo Rio Linares s/n, 33300 Villaviciosa, Asturias, Spain.
• 33 Scientific and Technical Facilities, University of Oviedo, Fernando Bonguera s/n, 33006 Oviedo, Spain.

Abstract
Microorganisms of the genus Bifidobacterium are inhabitants of diverse niches including the digestive tract of humans and animals. The species Bifidobacterium adolescentis, Bifidobacterium animalis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Bifidobacterium breve and Bifidobacterium longum have qualified presumption of safety status granted by EFSA and several strains are considered probiotic, and are being included in functional dairy fermented products. In the present work we carried out a preliminary exploration of general metabolic characteristics and organic acid production profiles of a reduced number of strains selected from these and other species of the genus Bifidobacterium. The use of resting cells allowed obtaining metabolic fingerprints without interference of metabolites accumulated during growth in culture media. Acetic acid was the most abundant organic acid formed per mol of glucose consumed (from 1.07 ± 0.03 to 1.71 ± 0.22 mol) followed by lactic acid (from 0.34 ± 0.06 to 0.90 ± 0.12 mol), with moderate differences in production among strains; pyruvic, succinic and formic acids were also produced at considerably lower proportions, with variability among strains. The acetic to lactic acid ratio showed lower values in stationary phase as regard to the exponential phase for most, but not all, the microorganisms; this was due to a decrease in acetic acid molar proportions together with increases of lactic acid proportions in stationary phase. A linear discriminant analysis allowed to cluster strains into species with 51-100% probability, evidencing different metabolic profiles, according to the relative production of organic acids from glucose by resting cells, of microorganisms collected at the exponential phase of growth. Looking for a single metabolic marker that could adequately discriminate metabolic groups, we found that groups established by the acetic to lactic acid ratio fit well with differences previously evidenced by the discriminant analysis. The proper establishment of metabolic groups within the genus Bifidobacterium could help to select the best suited probiotic strains for specific applications.

KEYWORDS:
Bifidobacterium; acetic acid; lactic acid; metabolic group; resting cells

PMID: 26839073

DOI: 10.3920/BM2015.0129
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[janet]

What about GutPro Probiotic it has:-

Bif Infantis
Lactobacilus Plantaurum
Bif Bifidum
Bif Longum
Lactobacillus Gasseri
Lactobacillus Salivarius
Bif Breve
Bif Lactis

and L.Leucine

Is this safe - I ask because I have had a really scary week where I was taking Biokult and I do have histamine intolerance but seemed to be doing OK this time as I normally have to stop after a two weeks with headaches, bad eyes, breathing problems but I didn't get it this time but what I did get was horrendous bloating - it was scary - my stomach was huge and hard - it is just starting to go down but it's nowhere near where it was. It scared the life out of me but reading this article that histamine raising probiotics can do this sort of makes me understand now.

So I have the GutPro 5 billion in the cupboard but after Biokult I am a bit scared to take in case I get similar problems - can anyone help is this a safe one