dear rich vank and fredd and others,
regards and greetings.
rich - it is great to find you here! please reply. I hope fredd with give his input also.
many thanks for your kind help in getting my life back.
regards
b12
(suffering for 18 years)
PS: IN CASE MR. RICH VANK OR FREDD DO ONLINE CONSULTING. PLEASE CONSIDER MY CASE SERIOUSLY. I AM PREPARED TO PAY YOUR FEES VIA PAYPAL. I understand that you may be a non-medical person and I am prepared to sign any document stating that you will not be legally held responsible for my condition in any case
(caps only to emphasize. shouting not intended. )
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THIS QUERY WAS ALSO POSTED AT WRONG DIAGNOSIS. THIS IS THE FINAL VERSION OF THE QUERY WITH ADDITIONAL NOTES. FREDD AND OTHER MAY REPLY
HERE AND IGNORE EARLIER WRONG DIAGNOSIS VERSION.
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I am a newbie here but, I have read and reviewed many of yours posts and materials on b12 and folates + researched the net for verrry long time.
my symptoms:
(I am a vegetarian. very little milk or cheese). male. below 40. very weak.
= ocd (main problem)
= slight ADHD
= no depression
= CFS
= DSPS (delayed sleep phase disorder). I could only sleep after 3AM for years.
= tinnitus (more on left ear)
= leg cramps (more right side)
= neurofibromas (more on right part of body)
= symptoms and test results show low calcium
= very sweet smell in urine, sweat, feces, saliva etc for years. no diagnosis for years. I do not have diabetes. this was probably due to calciuria and/or phosphaturia (due to impaired genetic level calcium absorption). homeopathy has helped me fix this (to a large extent) and enhance blood calcium levels.
= slight albumin in urine.
= hair fall
= very weak /absent erections. almost no libido.
= very high chemical sensitivity
=====================
diagnosis based on symptoms:
= genetic level calcium absorption problem.
= OCD (low serotonin) [genetic origin. OCD is there n family]
= low cerebral calcium.
= low cerebral folate
= (slightly) under-methylated
= low supply of calcium, b12 and folate from diet.
=====================
treatment:
apart from classical homeopathy to correct genetic issues:
b12 and folate and calcium supplement.
my questions:
1.
I had problems of calcium depletion and/or lowered b12 with calcium gluconate and vitamin C (both taken together). any idea why? I take calcium carbonate and that is ok. I also had problems with magnesium and vitamin D (burning, heat and heaviness in head). why?
2. my experiences:
= cyanob12 never worked in past. I understand this now.
= common b-complex gave me hyper-excitement. this was due to low calcium levels in brain - as I understand now. it also made me under-methylated (due to cyano b12 and folic acid - as I understand now)
=
methb12 in 500 mcg single dose makes me hyperexcited and overmethylated...and also calcium depleted. why? I don't know this.
=
adenob12 - feel more hot. more diarrhea. why?
= folic acid makes me undermethylated. I can understand that now.
=
I understand that I an under-methylated by flat taste in mouth. NO desire to take water. if water is taken - head feels watery. is it right symptom of undermethylation? these things gave me undermethylation:
= only folic acid
= cyanob12 + folic acid.
please analyse.
now the right combination of b12 and folates is proving difficult. please help.
madanthony made some great posts at wrong diagnosis. allow me to quote.
"It is an opinion by some, such as Fredd, that therefore MB12 and AB12 are the best form of B12 supplement. No one can know what is the best form FOR YOU unless you undergo genetic testing, such as available at http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Outco...yl Cycle.htm. Some people have genetic mutations that make them sensitive to extra methyls (even if they are undermethylators). For instance there is a COMT allelle which makes it harder to break down dopamine so that even an undermethylator who isn't making much serotonin and dopamine has plenty of dopamine and is therefore sensitive to methyls. Dr. Yasko and heartfixers do encounter this regularly in their practices and they find a basis for the use of hydroxyB12 in certain individuals. The majority of people do not have these mutations."
"I am sure there IS no good way to deal with genetic mutations which require more methyls in some places and fewer in others as there is no way I know of at present to direct the methyls. (Well you can avoid dopamine precursors like cheese if you can't break down dopamine well, but it's not like taking a pill). Dr. Yasko and company attempt to provide careful methyl balance in such cases but the results can never be perfect. So for instance they might prescribe l-METHYLfolate and hydroxyB12 (1 methyl instead of 2 and - YES the other methyl has to come from the metabolism somewhere). They say the people with these mutations are prone to bipolar and very sensitive to methyl intake. I have a bipolar cousin and I have hormone levels that suggest COMT and C677T mutations, so I don't imagine I will get the kind of do-this-and-you're-golden results I am hoping for. But knowledge is power. Um, also, I regard it as a bit of an adventure. Woo-hoo - not so cheap thrills."
and fredd said:
"Hycbl has a reputation as being preferentially converted to adb12 as opposed to mb12"
[ I would like to add that hycbl is connected with calcium absorption]
now, keeping my symptoms in mind and my experiences - please suggest what should I do?
I thought a lot and feel that I do need b12 and folates and my diet does not have them + clear symptoms are there. but, I am not responding well to methb12 and adenob12 and folic acid. also, I am (slightly) on the under-methylated side. but, ALL b12 and folates and b-complex gave some strength to my brain. I also feel that my absorption is OK and injections are not needed. I am hypersensitive to everything and so I need to keep things to bare minimum. after analysing ALL issues: I have decided:
calcium carbonate + hydroxyb12 + methylfolate + rest all from diet. [nothing else]
kindly comment on the hydroxyb12 + methyfolate combo for my particular case. I seem to be sensitive to methyl in b12. so, I hope hydroxyb12 will work for me. but, I hope hydroxyb12 will not deplete calcium like methylb12.
[later on - I was surprised to note that unlike fredd who only emphasizes on methylb12 - dr vinitsky and rich - talk about hydroxyb12]
3. or should I think about adenob12 again with methylfolate?
which combination will be easier on stomach - adeno b12 + methyfolate OR hydrob12 + methylfolate. no diarrhea is wanted by me. I feel hydroxyb12 will be easier on stomach. what is your opinion?
4. rich talks about folinic acid (but, prefers metafolin). I cannot understand this. if hydroxyb12 is used along with folinic acid in any case - the results should be similar to using hydroxyb12 with folic acid - i.e. - UNDERMETHYLATION. I am an ocd case - slightly undermethylated. so, should I take hydroxyb12 with folinic acid or with methylfolate (metafolin).? won't metafolin balance the methylation for me (as I am not taking methylb12)? won't folinic acid or folic acid make me undermethylated? I did experience undermethylation with cyanob12 + folic acid.
please choose the right folate for me along with b12.
[later on it was great to find that vinitsky, yasko and rich talk about b12 and folate combo]
dr vinitsky feels that the body should naturally methylate and so he goes for hydoxyb12 and folic acid. no forced methylation. will this approach work for me? I doubt. I feel I do need at least one methylator - at least on the folate side.
please note my weak condition and diarrhea and delayed sleep rhythm and weak brain and SLIGHTLY undermethylated case to choose folinic acid vs. metafolin.
5.
which one is lighter on stomach? folinic acid or methylfolate? does addition of methyl make ithe folate more diarrhea prone than plain folic acid?
PS: any reports/user experience about methylfolate effect on stomach at 400 mcg dose? any diarrhea? is it better or worse on stomach than A) folic acid and B) calcium levo-folinate (folinic acid)
6. I feel that RDA of hydrob12 is like cyanob12. so, should I just take 5 mcg or 10 mcg per day of hydroxycbl?
folate - 200 mcg or 400 mcg per day? [yasko says 200 mcg - is that right?] is there any b12 and folate ratio for stable effect? dr vinitsky mentions tooo much folate - I think. for me dr neubrander or fredd or dr ray strand style heavy dosing will not do for mr. I am verrry hypersensitive. physically very weak. and very weak digestion.
will it be ok if I take 5 mcg hydroxyb12 daily with 200 mcg methylfolate and 625 mg calcium carbonate (elemental calcium 250 mg). please adjust dose for me. I am prepared to take very low doses [something better than nothing. very slow results is fine but, this weak useless life is of no meaning] -
even lower doses is fine - but, I should not get hyperexcited or get insomnia or diarrhea or undermethylated. please decide the correct dose considering my weak brain and body. due to long time low cerebral calcium - I cannot even take a full b-complex tab as that overstimulates my brain. also please consider my weak stomach.
7. I think it is better to take calcium, and b12 and folate - all together? what do you say. [later on - was thrilled to read that dr vinitsky mentions folate and b12 taken together].
= both taken at breakfast or lunchtime (earlier in the day during daytime) to fix my circadian clock. what do you say?
8. I think I should avoid BOTH aspartame and MSG. what do you say?
9.
BRAND dr vinitsky mention perque brand for hydroxyb12. rich what is your suggested brand for hydroxyb12? where to buy?
and rich - which brand do you suggest for metafolin in my case? solgar? or should I take folinic acid (please suggest brand).
10. route of administration: vinitsky says ONLY sublingual for BOTH folate and b12 - or else there may be a problem. what do you say?
= if you suggest metafolin for me - is it available in sublingual form?
= is it ok to take sublingual b12 along with oral folate?
= if the hydroxyb12 is only available in high dose (perque is 2000 mg) - is it ok to dissolve in water and take right dose (after how many minutes? can chemical reaction if watery solution is used?)
= will sublingual be easier on stomach?
I have suffered for years. kindly help with your inputs.
if your inputs help me regain my strength and life - I will not be able to thank you enough. please do help me. you will be helping a very sensitive and intelligent person who wishes to help others. FEEL FREE TO TAKE ANY FEES FOR ONLINE INTERACTION. please help - the doctors here are totally useless. if possible please communicate with me DIRECTLY by email frequently.
regards
b12