Reduced heart rate variability predicts fatigue severity in individuals with cfs/me

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,460
Likes
9,309
Location
Norway
https://translational-medicine.biom...mFTsZ7TK8sNQRFpiH7muBmaLPKbWYAaZ-lJ8_zKAZHBNU

Conclusions

Our findings suggest that ANS dysfunction presenting as increased sympathetic hyperactivity may contribute to fatigue severity in individuals with ME/CFS. Further studies comparing short- and long-term HRV recording and self-reported outcome measures with previous studies in larger CFS/ME cohorts are urgently warranted.
 

kangaSue

Senior Member
Messages
1,739
Likes
2,726
Location
Brisbane, Australia
It's widely hypothesised that reduction of heart rate variability reflects the suppression of vagal modulation and sympathetic dominance and is commonly found in the diabetic population (diabetic autonomic neuropathy) too but heart rate variability to deep breathing is one of the tests that can be done for determining if you have idiopathic Autonomic Neuropathy as well.
 
Messages
73
Likes
326
Location
Richmond, VA
I've been tracking sleeping heart rate / HRV with an Oura ring for about three months now. My data aligns extremely well with this paper - my HRV drops significantly when I am either 1) experiencing an ME/CFS crash, or 2) have a cold/other illness. It has helped me recognize ME/CFS crashes faster, which is useful since I change up my supplement stack and work schedule to accommodate the disease.
 

Markus83

Senior Member
Messages
276
Likes
304

Abrin

Senior Member
Messages
325
Likes
1,028
I've been tracking sleeping heart rate / HRV with an Oura ring for about three months now. My data aligns extremely well with this paper - my HRV drops significantly when I am either 1) experiencing an ME/CFS crash, or 2) have a cold/other illness. It has helped me recognize ME/CFS crashes faster, which is useful since I change up my supplement stack and work schedule to accommodate the disease.
I just wanted to see if you have still been enjoying the results from your Oura ring. I've had my eye on them for a long time but because of the price range I've been really hesitant in getting one. Have you found having your sleeping HRV being tracks to be something that is vry helpful to you? I already own a device that I can take my morning heart rate variability reading so I'd hate to spend money I don't have on something else if the sleeping HRV readings weren't overly worth it.
 
Messages
43
Likes
62
I recently bought an Oura ring and have been meaning to post on this forum about my findings... I notice I get extremely limited amounts of deep sleep (between 4 minutes some nights, to 45 minutes on a good night, and 30 minutes most nights), but too much REM sleep.

I was wondering if this type of thing might be common with us ME/CFS people, because there have only been three nights that I got a good amount of deep sleep, and I actually felt waaaaaaay better, almost totally normal, the next day after. It makes me wonder.

I'm still kind of confused about HRV. I'm assuming mine is low at around 25... is that low?

Does anyone else have an Oura ring or sleep monitoring device and can share?
 

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,004
Likes
1,831
You sleep in chest strap overnight?
Yea! It's fine. I have it strapped around my chest and I sleep shirtless. I barely notice it.

Only problem is, I still have signal quality issues to my iphone, which I need to fix to make sure the readings are accurate.
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
2,934
Likes
8,635
Location
U.S., Earth
Full abstract:

Escorihuela et al 2020 said:
Background
Heart rate variability (HRV) is an objective, non-invasive tool to assessing autonomic dysfunction in chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME). People with CFS/ME tend to have lower HRV; however, in the literature there are only a few previous studies (most of them inconclusive) on their association with illness-related complaints. To address this issue, we assessed the value of different diurnal HRV parameters as potential biomarker in CFS/ME and also investigated the relationship between these HRV indices and self-reported symptoms in individuals with CFS/ME.

Methods
In this case–control study, 45 female patients who met the 1994 CDC/Fukuda definition for CFS/ME and 25 age- and gender-matched healthy controls underwent HRV recording-resting state tests. The intervals between consecutive heartbeats (RR) were continuously recorded over three 5-min periods. Time- and frequency-domain analyses were applied to estimate HRV variables. Demographic and clinical features, and self-reported symptom measures were also recorded.

Results
CFS/ME patients showed significantly higher scores in all symptom questionnaires (p < 0.001), decreased RR intervals (p < 0.01), and decreased HRV time- and frequency-domain parameters (p < 0.005), except for the LF/HF ratio than in the healthy controls. Overall, the correlation analysis reached significant associations between the questionnaires scores and HRV time- and frequency-domain measurements (p < 0.05). Furthermore, separate linear regression analyses showed significant relationships between self-reported fatigue symptoms and mean RR (p = 0.005), RMSSD (p = 0.0268) and HFnu indices (p = 0.0067) in CFS/ME patients, but not in healthy controls.

Conclusions
Our findings suggest that ANS dysfunction presenting as increased sympathetic hyperactivity may contribute to fatigue severity in individuals with ME/CFS. Further studies comparing short- and long-term HRV recording and self-reported outcome measures with previous studies in larger CFS/ME cohorts are urgently warranted.
 

junkcrap50

Senior Member
Messages
1,146
Likes
2,465
FYI - I found out that my Low nocturnal HRV and low parasympathetic activity, and overall autonomic dysfunction was from peripheral autonomic nerve damage. And I very much expect fatigue to improve parallel to nerve fiber regen.
How did you measure your “nocturnal HRV”? I can’t find an app to record it over night.I didn’t think Elite HRV could do that. It is Just able to record 5 min intervals. Did you wake up in the middle of the night and measure it? Seems that would throw off your HRV.
 

Abrin

Senior Member
Messages
325
Likes
1,028
I've been using a Corsense lately and I do love it.

Hopefully someday I'll be able to afford a Oura ring. They do look really awesome.
 

sometexan84

Senior Member
Messages
1,004
Likes
1,831
How did you measure your “nocturnal HRV”? I can’t find an app to record it over night.I didn’t think Elite HRV could do that. It is Just able to record 5 min intervals. Did you wake up in the middle of the night and measure it? Seems that would throw off your HRV.
Polar chest strap monitor, Elite HRV iphone app
 
Messages
12
Likes
24
Some smartphones (Samsung Galaxy S7 and up) have heart rate monitors, although you might not know it. It's a red LED behind a lens next to the flashlight, which uses the same PPG technology as the Oura ring. You can download an app like Welltory and take measurements during the day, although I don't know how valuable that is.

The Oura ring is a brilliant little device and well marketed, and is the most comfortable to wear overnight, however some health podcasters who aren't sponsored by them have expressed doubts about its accuracy. For what it's worth, I've worn mine for weeks or months at a stretch out of a principled desire to know my biometrics, and found that it didn't give me many useful insights that I didn't already know. The main correlation that I found was the later I go to sleep, the less sleep I get. Common sense, but still striking to see it spelled out.

I know a sleep researcher at Fitbit who swears that a ring will never be as accurate as a wrist device, so I bought a Fitbit charge 4 and wore it with the Oura ring to compare results. Over a week or two, they were both directionally in agreement relative to themselves, but pretty far apart relative to each other. The Fitbit wrist strap is nice and soft, but still more intrusive than the Oura ring, and I stopped wearing it. However I might run the experiment again since it was pretty short. All the spreadsheet logging is kind of tedious. Unfortunately they don't report HRV the same way so I can't compare that metric directly.

Anyway, the point is, don't let one device's opinion on your deep sleep or REM sleep keep you up at night. But the relative results can be useful to discern cause and effect, if you can be diligent about logging your data and subjective outcomes every single day.
 

gbells

Improved ME from 2 to 6
Messages
1,433
Likes
1,765
Location
Eastern NC USA
I've been tracking sleeping heart rate / HRV with an Oura ring for about three months now. My data aligns extremely well with this paper - my HRV drops significantly when I am either 1) experiencing an ME/CFS crash, or 2) have a cold/other illness. It has helped me recognize ME/CFS crashes faster, which is useful since I change up my supplement stack and work schedule to accommodate the disease.
I'm getting excellent correlation between my HRV and my spoons estimation. The main problem I see here is that I'm not sure how different apps report the HRV. I'm about 3/4 done with craysing immunotherapy with an estimate of 2 months remaining. At my spoons low my energy has been as low as 14% while today I feel pretty good and my energy is at 54% using Welltory on a phone. I'm curious for energy where other people are at for their energy lows and highs.
 
Messages
226
Likes
692
Location
GA, USA
@gbells , hope this helps: when I am in a or about to start in a PEM crash or have a "bad day" (activity level 2), my energy level/body battery is 5%. On a "good day" (activity level 3-4 for me), my body battery is in the 30%'s. I have rarely seen anything past 50%. If I did, it is after recharging my Garmin tracker or it was left off for more than 1/2 day, but I have learned to disregard the resumed datapoints (for about 1 hour) because the estimations seem to assume a normal person.
 

Jyoti

Moderator
Messages
3,112
Likes
8,606
I am totally flummoxed by this topic. I was very curious about HRV and downloaded the free app @gbells is using: Welltory. I figured it would be interesting to get some information and see how it related to my physical experience. I had read that the camera/strobe mechanism on the phone was not always as accurate as chest straps and the Corsense. But it still struck me as worth a try as a first step.

I used it for three weeks pretty consistently. During this time I was feeling slightly worse than I usually do--so a very solid middle moderate, when often I am in the upper range of moderate.

My HRV 'scores' were mostly in the 80s and 90s. I was floored, honestly. A couple of times I dipped down into the 60s, but that was the lowest reading I got. Now, I know that if you are super drained you can end up with a high HRV score, but this was consistent.

Obviously, I was very careful to follow the directions for taking the readings, particularly when I saw how out of sync they seemed to be with how I felt.

Any thoughts are welcome!
 

Abrin

Senior Member
Messages
325
Likes
1,028
@gbells , hope this helps: when I am in a or about to start in a PEM crash or have a "bad day" (activity level 2), my energy level/body battery is 5%. On a "good day" (activity level 3-4 for me), my body battery is in the 30%'s. I have rarely seen anything past 50%. If I did, it is after recharging my Garmin tracker or it was left off for more than 1/2 day, but I have learned to disregard the resumed datapoints (for about 1 hour) because the estimations seem to assume a normal person.
My body battery is pretty much at 5% no matter what I do and how much I rest. (*laughs*)