Reading this bloods test/Folate high?

[Learner1]

Yes it's high. Halve your supplement dose. Here's some info on how excess folate promotes cancer.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101222173103.htm

Too little folate promotes cancer, too.

It's useful to understand what the status of all the nutrients is in the one-carbon cycle and get them balanced. A comprehensive test like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval or similar would be useful. Many times, the folate isn't being used as it should because other nutrients downstream are inadequate, like B12, B1, B2, B6, magnesium, potassium, zinc, molybdenum, glutamine, glycine, or cysteine...

 

[HABS93]

Multivitamins have minimal amounts of most nutrients in ratios that may or may not be right for the patient taking them. It is an erroneous assumption to think that they would be sufficient for any sick patient, especially someone ill with ME/CFS.

There are numerous reports of people adding thiamine to their regimen and it being a real game-changer for them.
That's a pretty low dose. I'm taking 750 mg of Benfotiamine or else I test low in thiamine.

This describes what thiamine does, including reducing fatigue:

https://selfhacked.com/blog/thiamine/
Exactly how did you do that and for how long? Reducing them in your diet is one thing, but that just stops them from adding to the deposits you already have. Typically, if you have an oxalate problem You will have oxalates deposited in places throughout your body, including your eyes, heart, kidneys, joints, mitochondria, and everywhere else. It typically takes a long-term effort, including taking potassium, magnesium, or calcium citrate prior to each meal, a good deal of vitamin B6 in the form of P5P, and a low oxalate diet, for 1 to 7 years. The idea is to reduce them being deposited, and then to lower the gradient so that they start to come out of where they are stored. Oxalates can cause all kinds of mischief while you have them. They are a toxin, but they do not use the normal detox pathways, this is how you have to detoxify from them.

This is more than unfortunate. It is directly damaging to your body, and put stress on your ability to detoxify, which sounds like it is already stressed. This would greatly increase your need for detoxifying nutrients.

I just ordered some thiamine so I'll wait and see. Improving my energy levels anymore would be getting not too far away from normal energy levels so that's a plus. As for oxalates I don't have kidney stones so I don't know what to say about oxalates. Wouldn't everyone have this problem? I bet a healthy normal adult has high level toxins in there blood it's just human nature. You can't keep them all outside but I do know oxalates is not the reason I got sick. If you read the past conversation here Judee came up with a good point about thick blood flow.

 

[HABS93]

Yes it's high. Halve your supplement dose. Here's some info on how excess folate promotes cancer.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101222173103.htm

It doesn't say HI on the test though so that means it's fine?

 

[gbells]

It doesn't say HI on the test though so that means it's fine?

Double normal is too high.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Double normal is too high.

I can certainly see how it might look that way at first glance.
But, technically, it's not really double normal, it's double the absolute *minimum* level...

 

[HABS93]

I can certainly see how it might look that way at first glance.
But, technically, it's not really double normal, it's double the absolute *minimum* level...

So should I be worries ? The only folate I'm taking is from a multi vitamin. I stopped taking my supplements for a week cause the bladder doesn't enjoy them.

 

[JES]

As @Pyrrhus mentioned, they only give a lower limit, which tells nothing about what the population average or upper limit is. For example, if you have twice the minimum level of vitamin D in blood, it's generally a good thing.

If you measure say, 100 different minerals, vitamins or actually anything, you are likely to be at low end of the range on some and high on others simply because it's statistically likely, so that in itself doesn't signify a problem.

 

[gbells]

I can certainly see how it might look that way at first glance.
But, technically, it's not really double normal, it's double the absolute *minimum* level...

emedicine give a much lower range.

Adults - 2-20 ng/mL, 2-20 μg/L, or 4.5-45.3 nmol/L
https://emedicine.medscape.com/arti...ed blood cell (RBC) folate,or over 362 nmol/L

Multivitamins aren't good to take anyway. They have no benefit.

Take it every other day instead of daily.

 

[HABS93]

I can certainly see how it might look that way at first glance.
But, technically, it's not really double normal, it's double the absolute *minimum* level...

emedicine give a much lower range.

Adults - 2-20 ng/mL, 2-20 μg/L, or 4.5-45.3 nmol/L
https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2085523-overview#:~:text=The reference range of the red blood cell (RBC) folate,or over 362 nmol/L

Multivitamins aren't good to take anyway. They have no benefit.

Take it every other day instead of daily.

So frustrating. There's no evidence of anything except maybe a clue from a Hi palate count that Judee was talking about.

 

[Judee]

Spending 1200$ on a lyme test sounds horrible. My integrative doesn't think it's lyme though and he deals with it.

No, I don't think you should do the Lyme's test now. Wait and pursue the high platelets issue first. I think that may be your best clue yet.

Although I unfortunately started smoking cigs again. I went two months and will try again. It's just really hard to say no too at work.

Can you get the nicotine patches?

 

[Judee]

Multivitamins have minimal amounts of most nutrients in ratios that may or may not be right for the patient taking them. It is an erroneous assumption to think that they would be sufficient for any sick patient, especially someone ill with ME/CFS.

On the one hand, I agree with you because the USRDA is a joke but on the other hand, ME/CFS people are sensitive to even small amounts of things sometimes* so taking something in this case for nutritional deficiencies is better than nothing and a good place to start.

*Taking a full strength B vitamin gives me migraines. It works that way for many things I try to take full strength.

 

[HABS93]

No, I don't think you should do the Lyme's test now. Wait and pursue the high platelets issue first. I think that may be your best clue yet.



Can you get the nicotine patches?

Okay I have a rainy day fund I've managed to save . I usually work 75-90 hours roughly. I've let addiction back into my life because weed and cigs were my favorite things in life. This weekend I'm at my mom's and I'm not allowed to smoke weed. I'm going to withdrawal it out smoke cigs to get through it. Then when I'm comfortable without weed I will quit smoking. That's how my stupid brain works .
I'll update you tomorrow I see my integrative doctor before I leave for the weekend. See my mom and brothers drains me. I'll be more tired from seeing my mom then going to work for a week.

 

[HABS93]

On the one hand, I agree with you because the USRDA is a joke but on the other hand, ME/CFS people are sensitive to even small amounts of things sometimes* so taking something in this case for nutritional deficiencies is better than nothing and a good place to start.

*Taking a full strength B vitamin gives me migraines. It works that way for many things I try to take full strength.

I trust alot of people's opinions so I understand you guys both have other thoughts. This is 10x harder the Calculus. This disease forced youu to research years and years of information trial and error foryour own personalized case. Each of our cases are similar but so far away at the same time. Learner has some insane information that I don't even know If could do that when I wasn't sick . You guys have some of the most intelligent medical help I've ever seen/will ever see. You make my OHIP covered doctor's have no idea about half the things I learn on here. My integrative doctor did not mention taking things before you eat to activate glutithione. I don't even get cystien so all the NAC I've been taking has literally not bring used.

 

[Learner1]

ME/CFS people are sensitive to even small amounts of things sometimes* so taking something in this case for nutritional deficiencies is better than nothing and a good place to start.

*Taking a full strength B vitamin gives me migraines. It works that way for many things I try to take full strength.

The metabolomics studies have indicated that patients with ME/CFS can have huge nerds fur various nutrients. Two huge problems people seem to have is that either they're toxic and as they start taking new trance, they start mobilizing toxins that they can't fully get rid of because they are missing cofactors for the detox processes, and so many times, the toxins get redeposited in an even worse location than they started with. Or They have so many processes bottlenecked, that they start in with something they were deficient in, and run out of cofactors, so they get stuck at the next bottleneck, and not realizing they're missing cofactors they think that X supplement doesn't work because they get symptoms, which are really symptoms of whatever pathway is blocked. It's more like having an entire symphony that needs to be played with a balance of the different musical instruments and coordination between them.

My integrative doctor did not mention taking things before you eat to activate glutithione. I don't even get cystien so all the NAC I've been taking has literally not bring used.

I'm not sure what one would eat to activate glutathione. The reason for taking NAC is to increase cysteine intake. This can be effective as long as one has sufficient glutamine and glycine which are the other two amino acids needed to make glutathione.

 

[HABS93]

@Learner1 That's what I meant I'm only getting small doses from the multi vitamin . So do you need to take them both individually for NAC to work fully ?

 

[HABS93]

Probably the best appointment I've ever had. We were missing half my test results cause of a covid delay. Here's the rest of my results.
If anyone could tell me what they think. It's pretty bad alot of mitchrondria dysfunctions ,. Sibo , toxins ,low oxalate diet we've changed my supplements.

 

[gbells]

So frustrating. There's no evidence of anything except maybe a clue from a Hi palate count that Judee was talking about.

No, they have done studies on multivitamins in nurses and shown they have no benefit. This is evidence that they don't work, not lack of evidence. Also, previous studies show too many strong anti-oxidants raise cancer risk.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/is-there-really-any-benefit-to-multivitamins#:~:text=The researchers concluded that multivitamins,harmful, especially at high doses.

 

[Learner1]

Probably the best appointment I've ever had. We were missing half my test results cause of a covid delay. Here's the rest of my results.
If anyone could tell me what they think. It's pretty bad alot of mitchrondria dysfunctions ,. Sibo , toxins ,low oxalate diet we've changed my supplements.

You might want to remove your name and your doctors name from the top of the pages you posted.

There is a lot going on. Hard to say if you have any genetic issues, you might, so if you don't improve and these results don't improve after changing your supplement program, you might investigate further. But for now, things you might consider, and this is with having no idea what your diet is and current supplements, or what your doctor said:

1. A low oxalate, anti-candida diet. And ideally organic, as you have high markers for toxicity, and if you're eating glyphosate and other pesticides in your food, those could be depleting your detox systems.
2. A rotation of Diflucan and Nystatin for candida. You may have aspergillus, too, so ask your doctor about treating that. The oxalate folks will tell you if you deal with the oxalates, fungi will go away, but your fungi problems look fat worse than your oxalate problem, so if it were me, I'd treat it.
3. This test doesn't show thiamine, B1, though one marker mentioned it might be low. Supplementing B1, especially as allithiamine, lipothiamine, or TTFD has helped many patients reduce lactic acid. It's also needed for the transsulfuration pathway to get rid of toxins.
4. High succinic acid can be related to B2 deficiency, and you have other markers indicating B2 deficiency. Taking it in 2-3 doses throughout the day is best.
5. Your antioxidants are depleted. This test doesn't show A, E, or ALA, but suspect they might be low. With oxalates, you don't want to go overboard on vitamin C, but you are very deficient and it's needed to recycle glutathione, and several other things. So you might try taking one gram, three times a day, and hope that it's not enough to be converting to oxides.
6. NAC would be needed to increase glutathione production. You look low, so taking it as needed. This test doesn't show glutamine or glycine also needed for glutathione production, so you might look into taking those as well, or running an amino acid panel to figure out what amino acids you need.
7. In addition to a low oxalate diet, B6 is needed to keep from swapping oxalates for sulfur in your gut, and losing sulfur which is not good. You are deficient, and people with oxalates can need very high doses, up to 2 or 300 mg a day. You would also want to take magnesium, calcium, or potassium citrate, or garcinia cambogia which is hydroxy citrate, 20 to 30 minutes before each meal to reduce absorption of oxalates.
8. You might also want to do a doctor's data mineral test, preferably urine, not hair, to find out if you are short of any other minerals oxalates tend to bind to minerals, making them unusable for you, and mineral cofactors are important in many processes. You might want to especially look at molybdenum which is used in the transsulfuration pathway along with B1.
9. It also looks like you're very short of B12. This test doesn't test folate so though I suspect you might have a problem, it's impossible to know unless you test it. For methylation, in addition to optimizing MB12, B2, B6, B1, folate, and maybe minerals like zinc, potassium, and molybdenum, you might also want to take TMG, trimethylglycine. All of these, in addition to optimizing cystine, glycine, and glutamine, should help to increase your glutathione. If that doesn't work, then, and only then should you look into glutathione supplementation. Your B5 is currently adequate, but you would want to monitor it, as it is needed to help recycle glutathione.
10. Then you might want to know what your toxicity is from. This test suggested that doing the GPL MycoTox test for molds, and as your fungi markers were high, that might be a good idea. There's also the GPLTox test which test for over 150 different toxins, which might be useful in your case. Different toxins require different detox strategies, so in addition to methylation you may need some other strategies working as well.
11. You'd also want to be on a good probiotic.

The number of things you've got going on, should keep you busy for a while, but I would hope that working on all of this should give you some good improvement and symptoms and support anything else your doctors are doing. I would definitely want to be working with your doctor, as this is complex and you will optimize improvement by working with somebody knowledgeable and not just trying to do all this on your own. My suggestions above are my opinion based on what I've learned, I am certainly not a doctor, I don't know you, and your health history so I could be wrong, so I definitely take your doctor's advice over mine.

Best wishes...

 

[HABS93]

@Learner1 This is very similar to what we were talking about yesterday. Were changing my diet and supplements. This is alot of stuff and going to be very expensive . I want to thank you for your indepth evaluation. So if I'm not eating oxalates I can treat the asperigulls first ?

 

[gbells]

You might want to remove your name and your doctors name from the top of the pages you posted.

1. Your antioxidants are depleted. This test doesn't show A, E, or ALA, but suspect they might be low. With oxalates, you don't want to go overboard on vitamin C, but you are very deficient and it's needed to recycle glutathione, and several other things. So you might try taking one gram, three times a day, and hope that it's not enough to be converting to oxides.
2. NAC would be needed to increase glutathione production. You look low, so taking it as needed. This test doesn't show glutamine or glycine also needed for glutathione production, so you might look into taking those as well, or running an amino acid panel to figure out what amino acids you need.

1 and 2 look like the same problem.

Middle age and older adults are recommended to supplement with reduced or s-adenyl-L glutathione which is the master antioxidant and low in older adults. Strong antioxidants like Vit E and NAC raise your cancer risk and aren't recommended.