Pyruvate dehydrogenase function depends on thiamine (B1)

[Asklipia]

I could not tolerate even tiny doses of ALA when I tried a few years ago.
Thiamine HCL made me manic and was unbearable too.

 

[Asklipia]

Sulbutiamine + Fursultiamine Day 3
Yesterday at breakfast I took one Alinamin Ex Plus (33 mg fursultiamine) + some magnesium, at lunch I took 200 mg Sulbutiamine and at dinner one Alinamin again + some B2.

My breath has been flowing more from the right nostril all day long. A sign of imbalance.
The pain behind the womb is totally gone, and I can squat more easily! This came as a surprise and I nearly fell!
Lots of people turned up unannounced, always a sure sign with me that I have more energy at a deep level.
It was not tiring but I would have preferred more concentration on my body.

I did not sleep very well, waking up at 1 am when some neighbours started a fight, and I could not go back to sleep. I realized that during the night I had started an oxalate dump, blurry eyes and a rash on the two shoulders, at the front just over the armpits. This is the first time ever that a rash appears there. It must be the Sulbutiamine because that never happened with the Alinamin. It may be that the different types of thiamin are specialized in different areas!
To give time to my oxalate problems to dissolve, I took a day off Sulbutiamine today, just allowing myself an Alinamin for lunch.

Thank you @Chocolove for the warning!

 

[Chocolove]

It must be the Sulbutiamine because that never happened with the Alinamin

I took a day off Sulbutiamine today

Further Warning re Sulbutiamine:

When taken in large amounts, more dangerous side-effects are possible. Although rare, it is possible to experience skin rashes.

Issues with sleeping have been documented, which is believed to be based on individual brain chemistry. If this is the case, stop usage. Not only sleep is affected, but appetite. Sulbutiamine is an appetite suppressant, therefore anyone who has a history of eating disorders, should avoid usage.

If taken too often, mood swings may occur. If you’re bipolar and currently on bipolar medication, it is recommended that you avoid taking sulbutiamine. It tends to have a negative affect on those who are taking bipolar medication.

 

[Chocolove]

@Asklipia Thanks for being such a valiant guinea pig and giving us timely reports.

Allithiamine sounds like the preferred form of B1.

 

[Chocolove]

Just started allithiamine today!

How's it going?

 

[Chocolove]

I would just add that in my personal experience taking allithiamine per se did nothing

I ran into severe phosphate deficiency on day 3. Magnesium and calcium were also a serious problem.

PubMed studies are repeatedly showing that thiamine is useless in the face of a magnesium deficiency. Without magnesium, the key, the car simply won't start.

Of course there are genetic issues in some regarding the enzyme. But a personal trial of thiamine when in a magnesium deficient state appears to have the most probable result of nothing.

Why not give it a try with adequate magnesium?

 

[Sidereal]

PubMed studies are repeatedly showing that thiamine is useless in the face of a magnesium deficiency. Without magnesium, the key, the car simply won't start.

Of course there are genetic issues in some regarding the enzyme. But a personal trial of thiamine when in a magnesium deficient state appears to have the most probable result of nothing.

Why not give it a try with adequate magnesium?

I'm well aware. As I implied in my post I had to supplement minerals including magnesium (and adhere to a brutal diet) to get significant gains from allithiamine.

 

[Chocolove]

@Sidereal Since it may take months to replete a magnesium deficiency, it is lucky you got any effect from thiamine. Plus magnesium is required to replete a calcium deficiency. The need for magnesium repletion to get body functions going is going to make start up difficult. Magnesium is required for 300 enzymatic reactions in the body. People are being recommended to take magnesium for several months before attempting other nutrients to see a result.

Perhaps now that you have more magnesium on board results will be better?

Magnesium and Vitamin B1 - Team Players Needed for Brain ...
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... Team Players Needed for Brain, Muscles, Metabolism, ... Without adequate magnesium, thiamin will not ... Symptoms of moderate to severe magnesium deficiency ...

• Hypomagnesemia Treatment & Management: Approach ...
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• How To Get Rid Of A Magnesium Deficiency - Diet, Fat Loss ...
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• Magnesium: This Invisible Deficiency Can Harm Your Health
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[eljefe19]

@Chocolove i seem to be getting a boost from my supplements right now but I'm doing a million things at once, so I can't say it's the Allithiamine

 

[Chocolove]

@eljefe19 Good to hear. I hope you are taking sufficient magnesium...

 

[eljefe19]

lol I just read your post on magnesium. I'm taking 450 mg a day. I purchased an interesting supplement, it's a multi mineral made up of all the Krebs cycle substrates.

 

[Chocolove]

@eljefe19 What form of magnesium is in the complex? Many vitamin/mineral purveyors sell magnesium in forms that the body can NOT absorb very well.

I'm partial to chelated magnesium glycinate and have also tried magnesium threonate.

 

[eljefe19]

This supplement has the following; oxide, AA chelate, gluconate, aspartate, ascorbate, citrate, succinate, fumarate, ketogltuarate

I also have pure Mg Glycinate

 

[JES]

@Chocolove i seem to be getting a boost from my supplements right now but I'm doing a million things at once, so I can't say it's the Allithiamine

Do you get bad breath from allithiamine? I read in all users reviews of this supplement that people complain about garlic breath, weird sweat odor etc. Maybe that's why it's hard to find on the market.

 

[Asklipia]

@Sidereal Magnesium : Dr. Lonsdale recommends Magnesium Potassium aspartate to go with thiamin supplementation.
Because the aspartate will push it into the brain where the thiamin will do its work.
See interview of the thiamin expert Dr Lonsdale here.

@JES bad breath : this is supposed to happen with thiamine propyl disulfide = TPD (prosultiamine), which was in the first Alinamin supplements and now has been replaced there by thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide = TTFD (fursultiamine), which is supposed to bring the same benefits. A lot of the earlier studies on allithiamine were done on prosultiamine, still extensively used in China and Taiwan, where obviously garlic breath is not a problem!

Sulbutiamine is O-isobutyrylthiamine disulfide.

Now it is true that when I took the Allithiamine of Ecological Formulas I could feel a few burps of garlic breath which never happened with the Japanese Alinamin Ex Plus. Since they both are supposed to contain fursultiamine, the reason must be that the Allithiamin of Ecological Formulas comes in a light capsule, and the Alinamin is in a hard glazed pill. Same as the Sulbutiamine I am using.
Reports @Chocolove mentioned by recreational users of Sulbutiamine show that these people happily ingest Sulbutiamine in powder form and by whole spoonfuls!!!! I am sure the taste is awful

 

[Asklipia]

Sulbutiamine + Fursultiamine Day 4
Yesterday at lunch I took one Alinamin Ex Plus (33 mg fursultiamine) + some magnesium + some B2. I skipped the Sulbutiamine because of an oxalate dump.

I had blurry vision all day, not fun. By the evening the rashes had completely disappeared, but some pimples had appeared on my left temple. I went to bed early and I slept like a log for 11 hours. This is extremely unusual for me, I generally sleep for 5-7 hours. My husband joined me in bed later and found that my skin was covered in very high goose pimples. He said that if I had been a bird with feathers I would have doubled in size!
When I woke up, pimples generally, goose or not, had completely disappeared. I was fit and happy with crusty eyes. The blurry vision has gone.
Be well!

 

[Asklipia]

If you’re bipolar and currently on bipolar medication, it is recommended that you avoid taking sulbutiamine. It tends to have a negative affect on those who are taking bipolar medication.

Sulbutiamine + SSRI = sure recipe to make your enemies mad. Yesterday a friend came by who is an endocrinologist (those try all kinds of stuff when they are studying) and he was very interested in our little experiment. He said that this combination was used in competitive situations to bring down a rival.

 

[Asklipia]

Sulbutiamine (information by the manufacturers) :

Enerion® The drug is a synthetic compound similar in structure to thiamine, in comparison with which the molecule has an outdoor thiazole ring, an additional disulfide bond, a lipophilic ester. With this modification sulbutiamine highly soluble in fats, rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract and readily crosses the blood-brain barrier; Unlike thiamine, can accumulate in the cells of the reticular formation, dentate gyrus and hippocampus, Purkinje cells and the glomeruli and granular layer of the cerebellar cortex. While taking Eneriona® improved coordination of movement and increases resistance to physical stress, increases the stability of the structures of the cerebral cortex to repetitive anoxia. The drug is effective in the symptomatic treatment of functional asthenia.

Sulbutiamine rapidly absorbed, Cmax of the drug in the blood plasma is achieved in 1-2 hours after administration. T1 / 2 -. About 5 hours The drug is excreted in the urine.

 

[Sidereal]

The drug is effective in the symptomatic treatment of functional asthenia.

Adjuvant role of vitamin B analogue (sulbutiamine) with anti-infective treatment in infection associated asthenia.
Shah SN1; Sulbutiamine Study Group.
Author information

Abstract
AIMS OF THE STUDY:
Asthenic symptoms such as weakness accompany illness. This study investigates whether the centrally acting cholinergic agent, vitamin B analogue (sulbutiamine), is effective and acceptable in relieving these symptoms in infectious disease when combined with specific anti-infective treatment.

METHODOLOGY:
In a prospective uncontrolled, non-randomised, commercial, observational study, 1772 patients with an infectious disease and asthenic symptoms, drawn from the practice of 350 randomly selected physicians throughout India, received vitamin B analogue (sulbutiamine) in addition to specific anti-infective treatment for 15 days. The primary outcome variable was complete resolution of asthenic symptoms with treatment.

RESULTS:
The number (%, 95% confidence interval) of patients with complete resolution of all asthenic symptoms was 916 (51.7, 49.4-54). In the remaining patients, severe asthenia was reduced but persisted in 11 (0.6, 0-26); and moderate asthenia in 94 (5.3, 0-17.6). The response was greater in patients with acute infection and symptoms more related to cerebral function. Side effects occurred in 10 (0.6%), patients and well being improved significantly.

CONCLUSIONS:
Vitamin B analogue (sulbutiamine) may be a useful adjunct to specific anti-infective treatment.

 

[Sidereal]

Pretty wild paper published in a psychosomatic journal (authors from the University of Colorado, not exactly a village in India) I read a while ago when I was experimenting with thiamines.

Beriberi Unexpected

We report several cases of beriberi, with presenting symptoms other than the more usual, in well-fed people who do not use alcohol. Physical changes seen in all cases, idiosyncratic physical changes, symptoms (initially dismissed as "functional" in some cases), and biochemical abnormalities suggesting investigation for beriberi are discussed. Treatment and outcomes are described.

In each of these cases, the person seen was thought to have a treatment-resistant psychiatric problem. Objectively observable deteriorations in cognitive and physical capacities had been observed and were attributed to the psychiatric problems. All ofthe individuals had made strong efforts to overcome their challenges, yet they were all characterized as unwilling to do so, with punitive responses to the symptoms proposed. None of these individuals came from circumstances usually associated with nutritional problems.