psychosomatic is the root of all?

[kisekishiawase]

https://www.journals.elsevier.com/journal-of-psychosomatic-research/
https://www.eapm.eu.com

Psychosomatic means that mental can induce psychical, health issue.
Your mind order your body to caused issues, you have negative suggestions that caused issues to your body.
Many people and doctors easily jump into conclusion that when someone get standard test and couldnt find the caused of the issue.
Its all in the head.

Im trying to gather evidence, arguments to counter this. that many real medical issues, long ago fall into this category because they didnt have enough knowledge, resource to identified the issue.

I try googling but i dont know the right keyword. Such as the history of diseases that used to be unknown/treated as "its all in the head" that finally get identified. Also the genetic, antibody, microbiome, autonomic, etc findings that werent available long ago.

And even now there are still many unknowns.
So you cant just say its all in the head just because you are not the mighty all-knowing, and you dont have the knowledge, resources to find it.

Werent there any widely known disease that used to fall under /almost fall to this category/criteria. To brake/prove their Famous "allmightyunbreakeable" psychosomatic theory that this theory can be wrong???

 

[alex3619]

There is no objective or scientific evidence of the existence of psychogenic illness, which is the special subset of psychosomatic illness that describes mental states causing disease, especially apparent physical disease.

The history in medicine is one of totally unmittigated failure ... they have never, ever, been proven right. The list of disease states they have claimed this for probably account for well over forty percent of all deaths, and every single one has been shown to be physical when we found answers, like in cancer, heart disease, and quite a few immune disorders.

A great many times wrong, zero times right, its a travesty of failed medicine.

 

[alex3619]

You might like to read my blog - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/the-witch-the-python-the-siren-and-the-bunny.1149/

Many of my other blogs here deal with different aspects of this issue. So does my signature.

I do not know how you might handle academic books in English, but here is one that is worth reading:

https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Authors_o...ychogenic_Explanations_for_Physical_Illnesses

 

[xcell]

Read this study for example: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...ellar-purkinje-cells-in-mood-disorders.61479/

Are viruses the cause of psychiatric diseases? This is the conclusion drawn by a new study of Würzburg scientists. According to this study, special disorders are associated with an increased infection rate of a herpes virus.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
https://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/aktuel...le/news/ueberraschender-fund-in-nervenzellen/

After reading the above mentioned study I say that infections are the number 1 of "root causes".

Even if they are not found in blood or tissues. Or not yet found because of insensitive tests.
And they can only find what they are looking for.

 

[kisekishiawase]

@alex3619 @xcell Thank you for replying.
I check the link. The book seems promising but you have to buy it?
I do have a hard time ingesting scientific, complex article.
I dont know if doctors and people will believe it cause they only believe what they been taught in school. And the standard.

if psychogenic doesnt have valid prove then why doctors worldwide claim diagnosis and even there are specialists for that disease?

Im trying to find more simple but widely known disease that in history is thought to be not exist/psychosomatic. So they can at least think twice that maybe there some body systems that they still dont understand/acknowledge yet.

Which immune, heart disorder considers psychosomatic decades ago? I think i have read long ago but i cant recall.
What i know is POTS but that also still fall under psychosomatic...
Also ME maybe? Still under the shade.
What about lupus and other..

 

[kisekishiawase]

I google about psychogenic evidence test and this one came up on top

https://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0515/p2485.html

pseudoneurologic syndromes can mimic almost any organically based disease.
From 25 to 72 percent of patient visits to primary care physicians are primarily the result of psychosocial distress presenting as somatic complaints.3,4 Conservative estimates indicate that at least 10 percent of all medical services are provided for patients who have no evidence of organic disease.5Early diagnosis of pseudoneurologic syndrome spares the patient unnecessary, expensive and invasive procedures.

When the mind-body relationship becomes unbalanced to the point of a diseased state, the psyche can manifest several well-described disorders such as somatization disorder, conversion disorder, psychogenic pain disorder and factitious disorder. Perhaps the most common constellation of presenting symptoms and signs for these disorders are neurologic,1 and they constitute the pseudoneurologic syndromes discussed in this review.

see this is what the world acknowledge...

Werent there any widely known disease that used to fall under /almost fall to this category/criteria. To brake/prove their famous "allmightyunbreakeable" theory that this theory can be wrong???

so i read more and theres actually a difference between what people widely known of psychosomatic=mental causing non existance disease.
Then the other theory of psychosomatic where
Mental stress causing real disease. And disease causing mental stress thus causing more symptoms.

The second one is true. Since stress, etc can caused oxidation, imbalance, issues. But that means that the actuall disease has to be found too!
So its not about this theory but the other nasty one "all in your mind"

 

[Snow Leopard]

What evidence is there for "mental stress causing real disease"? (in high quality prospective studies)

Be very wary about anyone using "stress" to explain illness retrospectively. "Stress" is very non-specific and can be used to describe normal life course if someone doesn't insist on questioning their confirmation bias.

 

[kisekishiawase]

What evidence is there for "mental stress causing real disease"? (in high quality prospective studies)

Be very wary about anyone using "stress" to explain illness retrospectively. "Stress" is very non-specific and can be used to describe normal life course if someone doesn't insist on questioning their confirmation bias.

There is study about it that mental, suggestions, anxiety, stress, beliefs of some disease, etc. Can manifest and cause health issues, neurologic, imbalance, oxidation, etc that turn into symptoms, etc. Like the link i post. And many article, theory, which also what doctors believes in. Especially psychiatrist. And its getting more popular, widespread and easily to diagnosed many people to it. Will then cost them drugs, treatments. Which will invest money.

 

[Shoshana]

Historical beliefs of causes of Cancer :

Trauma theory
From the late 1800s until the 1920s, cancer was thought to be caused by trauma.
(psychological trauma)

Parasite theory
Till 18th century, scientists believed that cancer was contagious and spreads through parasite.

Of course, before that, it was believed to be caused by numerous gods.

I found this info from articles by medical authorities, accepted by government health agency.

~~~~~~~~~

Historical beliefs of cause of Autism :

Parental detachment from infants.
In other words, that the parents caused it, because they did not love the child, on some internal unconscious level, an completely invisible but assumed mental illness of a parent,
that somehow the baby reacted to;
was considered causal, which was wrong and horrific, and no one believes that now.

But both of these examples were very recent in human history. Many books were written with that claim presented as facts.

Mom or Dad being emotionally poor toward their baby, even if they appeared to be wonderful attentive loving parents, was blamed for the most extreme of Autism in non-verbal children, by doctors and professionals and the society, as recently as 1960's, even in countries with high education levels.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

I google about psychogenic evidence test and this one came up on top

https://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0515/p2485.html

Their own advice shows the stupidity of their approach.

Pseudocoma is perhaps as difficult to diagnose as pseudoseizure and should be a diagnosis of exclusion because, if true coma is missed, the complications could be life-threatening. Patients must therefore undergo standard treatment for coma until the diagnosis is clearly established.

 

[Shoshana]

There are always new things being learned in the medical field, and most all other fields as well,

and yet, people are repeatedly assuming that we now know all, and that there is nothing that we do not know yet, that will explain what is now unknown.

I find it so incomprehensible, that so many think that way.

 

[xcell]

Stomach ulcers were previously diagnosed as psychologically caused, even when Helicobacter pylori was discovered, this physical cause was ignored by many physicians.

 

[Shoshana]

Oh yes, people were told to STOP worrying, and their ulcers would go away.
SO ridiculous.
Even if they didn't think they were worrying, it was assumed they worried too much, subconsciously, rather than that there must be some other cause of abdominal piercing pain.
They were told they were feeling too much stress, and not coping positively enough with it, even if they were unaware of any.
Or even worse for the people who knew they did worry and HAD true stresses, to be told that is the entire cause of your pain and inability to function physically.

AND they were then, of course, told they could control this, change it by thinking in a more relaxed and positive way.



Some years earlier, people who had stomach ulcers, were told they would always have them, lifelong, or be prone to them, because they had a worrying personality! Ugh.


Now that they have a test specifically for the real cause, they know it is physical,
a bacteria which requires a med to kill it off.

Oh how shocked everyone was. And all those people who tried to improve their ways of dealing with stresses, and went to counselling therapies..... and felt it was their own fault, that the stomach ulcers continued.

 

[Wishful]

Does the OMF or other ME/CFS research group maintain a list of evidence that ME/CFS is not a psychosomatic disorder? A simple 'print this and show it to your doctor or relatives' file would be very useful for this still-all-too-common situation.

 

[alex3619]

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/here-we-go-round-the-merry-go-round-part-one.1229/

... or what we can learn from the history of peptic ulcers.

 

[Wolfcub]

Hasn't endometriosis at some stage been considered a "psychological" illness? I seem to vaguely remember something about that mentioned once but I am sorry I can't quote sources.

 

[Shoshana]

That was likely one of the many "Hysteria" or "hysterical" illnesses, hysteria being a psychological state attributed to the cause,
of being one of the female gender.

 

[me/cfs 27931]

Does the OMF or other ME/CFS research group maintain a list of evidence that ME/CFS is not a psychosomatic disorder? A simple 'print this and show it to your doctor or relatives' file would be very useful for this still-all-too-common situation.

Doctors usually (not always) pay attention to the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/me-cfs/healthca...clinical-course/etiology-pathophysiology.html

 

[alex3619]

There are many threads on psychogenic disease and ME. I got involved in that debate here maybe nine years ago. There are many lists, here and elsewhere, of diseases that were claimed to be psychosomatic and then shown to be entirely somatic (of the body). None of those lists are complete. Typically we start posting then people stop posting before we have a long list.

The story is always the same when we have answers. Nobody knows the cause of some disease entity. Therefore its psychogenic. Then we find the cause. Then the psychogenic proponents go looking for other disease states to claim as psychogenic.

The common feature is that causes are found when the technology to detect that cause becomes available, though the delay can be years to decades. Prior to that its all guesswork.

We know a lot about ME physiology now. Most ideas about what ME is do not explain the current evidence. Most hypotheses are invalid. Any claim to psychogenic causation will fail to explain most of the illness, even if you allow for the nonsense explanations they do make, but admitting this is typically not done ... in part because the medico in question does not even know the current science.

 

[Wolfcub]

Nobody knows the cause of some disease entity. Therefore its psychogenic. Then we find the cause. Then they psychogenic proponents go looking for other disease states to claim as psychogenic.

Yes sadly that's usually the way it works.
"We don't know what it is because we haven't the knowledge, so let's put it into that mysterious dumping ground (the thoughts and emotions)"
Unfortunately nowadays, doing that gets people prescriptions for all sorts of psycho-active drugs, many of them used inappropriately, many of them not helping the real cause, and many of them addictive.

And it can even become hard to differentiate between what is of the mind, and what is of the body, by the time someone gets so worn down by illness -mostly undiagnosed -that they are depressed or just at their wits end.