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    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

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Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I cannot get sodium cromolyn in India.
That's odd, it all seems to be manufactured in India.
PXL_20210823_025221338.jpg

The background to this is that initially I started on some H1 and H2 antihistamines (Loratidine and Famotidine) a few months ago; these didn't seem to help much
Typically, patients are put on H1 and H2 antihistamines, mast cell stabilizers such as cromolyn sodium or quercetin, and leukotriene inhibitors. There are a number of other medications as well as supplements that are helpful, too, as every case of MCAS is different.

One problem is that many medications, including all antihistamines have common allergens in them. I found this was a big contributor to why antihistamines such as Zyrtec and Claritin did nothing for me, and I have to have all H1 antihistamines compounded.

Attached is a list of drugs and substances found to be effective with mast cells.
I'm currently on a plan from my MCAS doctor to take Mast Cell stabilisers in the hope it calms my symptoms, but I've just tried a new one (Ketotifen) and I'm reacting badly to it, and I'm wondering what to do.
tried ketotifen 1 mg and it made me extremely tired.
Ketotifen has done that to me too
Many people become extremely tired due to ketotifen. Typically, this is because the microbiome and gut lining are disrupted. When I first tried ketotifen, 12 years ago, it made me extremely fatigued. Improving my gut health helped me tolerate it.
 

Attachments

  • Afrin Drugs for MCAS.pdf
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hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Many people become extremely tired due to ketotifen. Typically, this is because the microbiome and gut lining are disrupted. When I first tried ketotifen, 12 years ago, it made me extremely fatigued. Improving my gut health helped me tolerate it.

Ketotifen was causing other problems too, beyond sleepiness; it seemed like it was triggering my MCAS symptoms, the following day after trying 0.5mg I was completely wiped out, I could barely move. I've tried at lower doses but unfortunately it doesn't seem I can tolerate it.

Improving my gut health is a long term goal but it's not something I can do while I'm reacting to everything - calming the MCAS needs to come first in my case.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Ketotifen was causing other problems too, beyond sleepiness; it seemed like it was triggering my MCAS symptoms, the following day after trying 0.5mg I was completely wiped out, I could barely move. I've tried at lower doses but unfortunately it doesn't seem I can tolerate it.

Improving my gut health is a long term goal but it's not something I can do while I'm reacting to everything - calming the MCAS needs to come first in my case.
Well, it's an H1 antihistamine, not a mast cell stabilizer. You could try fexofenadine, cetirazine, or diphenhydramine if the loratadine doesn't work. I have to either have them compounded or use an injectable version due to allergens in all OTC pills or liquids.

My doctor prescribed cromolyn sodium as a mast cell stabilizer at 1.6g a day - 400mg 4 times a day. There are also quercetin, curcumin, and Neuroprotek. And Gleevec...
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Well, it's an H1 antihistamine, not a mast cell stabilizer.

It's both.

From Wikipedia:

Ketotifen, sold under the brand name Zaditor among others, is a second-generation noncompetitive H₁-antihistamine and mast cell stabilizer.

As for antihistamines, I'm taking Loratadine and Famotidine as per the doctors orders. Neither seem to be doing much.
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
If the drugs don't work for you, try others. Some people are on continuous benadryl drips.

Well that's my doctor's plan I assume... I'm tempted to do it myself and give them all a go immediately but his plan is to try a new one every few months and see what effect it has. I'm just a bit worried because I'm reacting badly to things like Ketotifen and Sodium Cromolyn and it's making me think nothing will work for me.
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
Hi Friends,

I am recently self-diagnosed with MCAS (suffered many symptoms my whole life) and I am currently trying HistaAid from Quicksilver Scientific as a mast cell stabilizer. It has liposomal C, quercetin, luteolin and DIM. All ingredients are liposomal. You can feel the onset of the effects fairly quickly./

histaaidrender1.png


When I first tried it I got a pretty intense detox reaction (from the DIM, i think) but after a few days I am finding it to be soothing. I am just a few days into trying this plus antihistamines for treatment so I can't give it my full endorsement yet, but just wanted to put this one out there as it seems to be more advanced than other formulas.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Hi Friends,

I am recently self-diagnosed with MCAS (suffered many symptoms my whole life) and I am currently trying HistaAid from Quicksilver Scientific as a mast cell stabilizer. It has liposomal C, quercetin, luteolin and DIM. All ingredients are liposomal. You can feel the onset of the effects fairly quickly./

View attachment 44461

When I first tried it I got a pretty intense detox reaction (from the DIM, i think) but after a few days I am finding it to be soothing. I am just a few days into trying this plus antihistamines for treatment so I can't give it my full endorsement yet, but just wanted to put this one out there as it seems to be more advanced than other formulas.
Thank you for sharing. Do you know what the purpose of the DIM is in there? And could it throw someone's hormones off, as in someone on hormone replacement?
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
Thank you for sharing. Do you know what the purpose of the DIM is in there? And could it throw someone's hormones off, as in someone on hormone replacement?

DIM + Vitamin C – Diindolylmethane can promote a less reactive immune system. Vitamin C can support diamine oxidase (DAO), an enzyme that metabolizes and inactivates histamine.

I've read DIM can block estrogen, so ask a doctor if you are on hormone replacement or are sensitive to estrogren changes.

Update: I am really liking the HistaAid supplement. You can feel the effects quickly and it feels soothing, like it calms inflammation and just makes you feel better. The lipo quercetin & luteolin are nice. The DIM detox effects rapidly diminished after about 4 days. I didn't feel anything much taking C + quercetin capsules, so I think HistaAid is a higher level of absorption.
 
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hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Just had another consultation with my MCAS doctor.

He basically said he's a bit stumped by my situation, whereby I'm reacting badly to most of the medications he's trying on me. He did tell me that about 10% of his patients failed to respond to MCAS medication, but he's not encountered anyone with this specific issue where they react to everything. He likened it to a patient with hypertension not being able to take blood pressure medication... fantastic.

He's considering asking another allergist/immunologist for a second opinion on my situation. Failing that, I think his next port of call is for me to try steroids for a short time, Prednisolone was the one I mentioned.

Has anyone tried this? He said that if my problem is caused by MCAS, then it will definitely work, but it can't be taken long term, I'm not sure why but I'm guessing it's something to do with steroids not being great for you.

He also mentioned the fact that I wouldn't be able to leave the house for 5 days whilst taking it, as if that would be a massive inconvenience, which I found slightly amusing as I've barely been able to leave my bed for the past 6 months. Sometimes I think these doctors just don't really get what you're going through..

Anyway, that's my situation. Obviously I'm not over the moon by the fact my MCAS doctor seems stumped by my case, especially given as he seems to be one of the authorities on this illness, here in the UK at least. I'm wondering about reaching out to others maybe across the pond. I've read a lot about Dr Afrin, who seems to be the global authority on MCAS, but I don't imagine he's available for appointments.

Would anyone know how to get in touch with him? Or are there other doctors people could recommend?
 
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EddieB

Senior Member
Messages
609
Location
Northern southern California
Just had another consultation with my MCAS doctor.

He basically said he's a bit stumped by my situation, whereby I'm reacting badly to most of the medications he's trying on me. He did tell me that about 10% of his patients failed to respond to MCAS medication, but he's not encountered anyone with this specific issue where they react to everything. He likened it to a patient with hypertension not being able to take blood pressure medication... fantastic.

He's considering asking another allergist/immunologist for a second opinion on my situation. Failing that, I think his next port of call is for me to try steroids for a short time, Prednisolone was the one I mentioned.

Has anyone tried this? He said that if my problem is caused by MCAS, then it will definitely work, but it can't be taken long term, I'm not sure why but I'm guessing it's something to do with steroids not being great for you.

He also mentioned the fact that I wouldn't be able to leave the house for 5 days whilst taking it, as if that would be a massive inconvenience, which I found slightly amusing as I've barely been able to leave my bed for the past 6 months. Sometimes I think these doctors just don't really get what you're going through..

Anyway, that's my situation. Obviously I'm not over the moon by the fact my MCAS doctor seems stumped by my case, especially given as he seems to be one of the authorities on this illness, here in the UK at least. I'm wondering about reaching out to others maybe across the pond. I've read a lot about Dr Afrin, who seems to be the global authority on MCAS, but I don't imagine he's available for appointments.

Would anyone know how to get in touch with him? Or are there other doctors people could recommend?
Have you made any further progress?
 

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,500
Location
Great Lakes
I've read a lot about Dr Afrin, who seems to be the global authority on MCAS, but I don't imagine he's available for appointments.

Would anyone know how to get in touch with him? Or are there other doctors people could recommend?

Patients might not be able to reach him but maybe another doctor could. You could ask your doctor to try.

Dr Afrin also has a book with lots of case studies in it per Amazon reviews.

Reading that or maybe giving a copy to your doctor might help as well. ???
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Have you made any further progress?

Hi Eddie,

Yes so the doctor ended up putting me on a short course of Prednisolone, which I'm just coming to the end of now.

The results have been... OK.

I've not reacted badly to it, like I was doing with all the other MCAS stabilisers, and I'd say on balance it seems to have improved my condition a bit, but not by much. All the main stuff is still just as bad though (the fatigue, achiness, cognitive stuff, reacting to food, etc), although I'd say the reacting to food has improved slightly. Say I was at 25% health before, I'm maybe at 30% now.

Which is obviously something to be grateful for - I'd rather respond well than badly to anything. But the way he'd painted it made it seem like it would completely turn off the Mast Cells for a while and I'd probably feel quite considerably better, but that it would be short lived and only a temporary fix. Well that clearly hasn't happened, and it's making me think I need to go back to the drawing board. I know I have MCAS, but maybe my main symptoms aren't something that can be quelled with MCAS stabilisers alone.

In the meantime I've been doing some more reading about mould toxins and their effect on the body. They are common in patients with MCAS and I tested positive for high mycotoxin levels in my urine earlier this year, so I think it's highly likely the mould is at least contributing to the MCAS. What I'm thinking now though is the Mast Cell reactions might only be one facet of it, and my symptoms are more widely attributable to the mould or other issues than the Mast Cells alone.

In light of that I've been reading Dr Neil Nathan's book on mould and toxicity (have written about it here), and I think I'm maybe going to try and go down a different route other than focus solely on MCAS, as that clearly doesn't seem to be working. So my next steps are to try some of Dr Nathan's recommendations (starting with binders to help the body detox better, followed by some antifungal sprays once my body can tolerate it) in the hope I can maybe quell my symptoms by addressing the root cause rather than going after the symptoms. Maybe I'll also start looking for a mould specific doctor.

My reluctance to go down this path initially was the thought that I wouldn't be able to get anywhere without first quelling the reactions, which in my mind meant MCAS. I've tried to take antifungals or antibiotics (or even probiotics) in the past and after a few days they all seem to start triggering big Herx reactions, suggesting my body can barely handle any extra toxins from killing microbes. My understanding now though, is that this is not the ideal method to start with, and that first you really need to help the body detox these toxins on their own, and without the use of antifungals etc. And I know I can tolerate some of these binders OK, so I'm hopeful I might be able to make some ground here.

I'm also tentatively exploring the idea of maybe doing some "brain retraining" type stuff to see if I can quell any of my reacting symptoms that way. I'm very skeptical about this sort of stuff and my instinct is that it wouldn't do anything. But I also don't have much to lose from it, and Dr Nathan advocates its use in his book, saying DNRS had helped the vast majority of his most sensitive patients.

Anyway yeh, that's where I'm at. Thanks for asking.
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
Patients might not be able to reach him but maybe another doctor could. You could ask your doctor to try.

Thanks Judee. Yes I reached out to Afrin's clinic, they mentioned they are willing to consult with doctors around the world, which I thought could be a solution in my case. I brought that up with my doctor but he didn't seem overly keen. Like I mentioned to Eddie, this experience with the Prednisolone has made me think I might take a step back from the MCAS for a bit and try to address the underlying problems. The adjustments I've made with my MCAS doctor have helped slightly so it's not all been in vain (specifically Vitamin D and Famotidine), and I know I can probably use Prednisolone as a failsafe if things ever get really bad. But yeh, I'd say my focus has shifted away a bit from the MCAS - I know I have it, but maybe it's just a small part of the bigger picture.
 

EddieB

Senior Member
Messages
609
Location
Northern southern California
Anyway yeh, that's where I'm at. Thanks for asking.
Well, it’s good something has helped even a little. But I’m with you on the possibility that mast cell isn’t the entire problem. There’s mast cell stuff going on, but not necessarily as the root cause. Like with myself, I have a positive enterovirus biopsy that’s probably triggering multiple symptoms. Mast cell may be one of them.
I didn’t go back through all your posts, but you mentioned mold. Do you have reasons to suspect mold?
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
I didn’t go back through all your posts, but you mentioned mold. Do you have reasons to suspect mold?

Yeh, I've written about it before, but a few reasons why.

First there's a big link with MCAS and mould, this is pretty well known and there's loads of stuff on this online. Once I got the MCAS diagnosis the first thing I did was get a urine test for Mycotoxins and, lo and behold, it showed very high levels.

Second, I've had some success with anti-fungals in the past. There were gut specific though, and because I had a stool test which showed the fungus had been largely eradicated from my gut I figured that was the problem sorted. I didn't realise there could be mould elsewhere in my body, not least because I don't really have sinus illnesses or breathing issues that might indicate it.
 

hb8847

Senior Member
Messages
432
Location
United Kingdom
And it may have been. I think that we can have an environment where the reactions continue long after the
original issue is solved. And the mast cells continue to “behave badly”.

Quite possibly there's still some residual "learned behaviour" from the mast cells. But I think it's highly unlikely my mould issue has been fixed, I had a urine Mycotoxin test earlier this year and it showed very high levels of certain mould toxins including Ochratoxin. So there is still mould somewhere in my body releasing these toxins, it's just not likely to be in my gut.
 

EddieB

Senior Member
Messages
609
Location
Northern southern California
Quite possibly there's still some residual "learned behaviour" from the mast cells. But I think it's highly unlikely my mould issue has been fixed, I had a urine Mycotoxin test earlier this year and it showed very high levels of certain mould toxins including Ochratoxin. So there is still mould somewhere in my body releasing these toxins, it's just not likely to be in my gut.
My impression was, that you had the fungal issues under control. But if that was just in the gut, sounds like you need to continue treating.