Potential risks of thiol supps: IV glutathione, alpha lipoic acid (ALA), N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) etc

[ahmo]

I weigh 36 kgs

Truly?? 79 pounds??

 

[Sidereal]

If you take a high dose of ALA at once though, shouldn't it cover the next 6 hours or so?

What would happen is that you would start off with a high blood level and then it would decline, and then the next dose would do the same. So you'd be on a rollercoaster essentially. The goal of the frequent dose chelation protocol is to keep blood levels relatively stable. Even if you don't have mercury toxicity you will probably find this much more tolerable.

Would 600x2 dose of ALA daily be okay with someone without mercury toxicity?

If you have ME or FM you might find such a dose waaay too powerful. Given your weight I'd start at 2.5 mg every 3 hours for 3 days and see how that feels. If no side effects, double the dose for the next round. Etc.

 

[David Hammond]

@LivingwithFibro The dose of ALA depends on your symptoms and body weight. With your body weight I would start at around 2 to 5 mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days (including at night). You modify the dose according to your reaction to the dose. If you do 2-3 rounds and don't experience much in the way of positive or negative side effects you can double the dose. Sometimes adverse effects are not felt until the day after the round finishes as the mercury remaining in the blood is redistributed. If you take DMPS with the ALA adverse effects are reduced.

 

[giantme]

Sorry to break the chain of conversation but before I forget I also found the following summary very useful as it explains some of the complex topics in plain english!

http://stasosphere.com/experience-l...ion-removal/#Removing_the_Toxic_Sources_First

 

[whodathunkit]

@LivingwithFibro: Cutler (the mercury chelating guru) does not recommend using ALA alone as a chelator.

Here's a good summary of Cutler:

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/chelation-the-andy-cutler-protocol/

I'm not entirely sure about everything I understand about Cutler (disclaimer: I don't have his books, haven't read them, but have read many summaries) but I do believe him about using other chelators besides ALA for mercury.

@giantme: nice link. thanks!

 

[TheChosenOne]

If you take a high dose of ALA at once though, shouldn't it cover the next 6 hours or so?

No. Chelators work with half lifes. This means that if you take 100 mg now, it is 50 mg 3 hours later and 25 mg 6 hours later. The fact that you take it once the half life has expired means that there will be 200 mg of ALA in your system every time you take a dose of 100 mg.
If you would take it every 6 hours, there will be 133 mg in your system every time you take a dose of 100 mg. This means a spike from 33 mg to 133 mg instead of 100 mg to 200 mg.

How does it work exactly? I weigh 36 kgs, how should I be dividing my dose?

Doesn't really matter. Whatever you feel comfortable with. As long as you take it according to the half life.

FYI, I've never had any amalgrams or dental work done so I don't think I am exposed to mercury. Are there any other ways you can be exposed to mercury?

The major source of environmental mercury are coal based power plants. This is why fish can contain high amounts of mercury. I avoid wild fish, especially tuna.
http://www.onearth.org/earthwire/tuna-mercury-levels-rising
Other sources of mercury:
http://www.glrppr.org/docs/mercury_in_industry.htm

Would 600x2 dose of ALA daily be okay with someone without mercury toxicity?

No.

 

[TheChosenOne]

@LivingwithFibro: Cutler (the mercury chelating guru) does not recommend using ALA alone as a chelator.

Can you give a reference for that? As far as I remember, he never said anything about that in neither books (Amalgam Illness and Hair Testing). He specifically states that "You can successfully clear mercury with ALA alone.".

 

[Sidereal]

Can you give a reference for that? As far as I remember, he never said anything about that in neither books (Amalgam Illness and Hair Testing). He specifically states that "You can successfully clear mercury with ALA alone.".

As I understand his books, ALA is the main chelator, essential in order to remove the metal from the brain. DMSA and DMPS are supportive therapies that can make chelation easier but one can chelate with ALA alone.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

Truly?? 79 pounds??

Yep and 33 pounds when I was 9. Been this way since forever. Am 20 now.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

What would happen is that you would start off with a high blood level and then it would decline, and then the next dose would do the same. So you'd be on a rollercoaster essentially. The goal of the frequent dose chelation protocol is to keep blood levels relatively stable. Even if you don't have mercury toxicity you will probably find this much more tolerable.



If you have ME or FM you might find such a dose waaay too powerful. Given your weight I'd start at 2.5 mg every 3 hours for 3 days and see how that feels. If no side effects, double the dose for the next round. Etc.

2.5 mg? The caplets I have are in 600 mg. I could do 100 mg per every 3 or 4 hours though for every 3 days.

@LivingwithFibro The dose of ALA depends on your symptoms and body weight. With your body weight I would start at around 2 to 5 mg ALA every 3 hours for 3 days (including at night). You modify the dose according to your reaction to the dose. If you do 2-3 rounds and don't experience much in the way of positive or negative side effects you can double the dose. Sometimes adverse effects are not felt until the day after the round finishes as the mercury remaining in the blood is redistributed. If you take DMPS with the ALA adverse effects are reduced.

Thank you!

@LivingwithFibro: Cutler (the mercury chelating guru) does not recommend using ALA alone as a chelator.

Here's a good summary of Cutler:

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/chelation-the-andy-cutler-protocol/

I'm not entirely sure about everything I understand about Cutler (disclaimer: I don't have his books, haven't read them, but have read many summaries) but I do believe him about using other chelators besides ALA for mercury.

[USE=160R91]@giantme[/USER]: nice link. thanks!

Can you give a reference for that? As far as I remember, he never said anything about that in neither books (Amalgam Illness and Hair Testing). He specifically states that "You can successfully clear mercury with ALA alone.".

Someone posted on curezone or another board that they e-mailed Cutler and he said it was OK to use ALA alone but if you've got an excerpt that says otherwise please do share.

 

[Sidereal]

2.5 mg? The caplets I have are in 600 mg. I could do 100 mg per every 3 or 4 hours though for every 3 days.

I don't know how sick you are but that dose would make me severely sick. There are some on chelation groups who had to start with 1 mg. I think the normal adult starting dose is 12.5 mg every three hours. This is one of those things where you really wanna make sure you get it right or else it's best not to do it at all since getting it wrong can result in severe worsening of symptoms and emergence of new symptoms.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

I don't know how sick you are but that dose would make me severely sick. There are some on chelation groups who had to start with 1 mg. I think the normal adult starting dose is 12.5 mg every three hours. This is one of those things where you really wanna make sure you get it right or else it's best not to do it at all since getting it wrong can result in severe worsening of symptoms and emergence of new symptoms.

All I've got are 600 mg caplets. :/ How should I divide them?

 

[Sidereal]

All I've got are 600 mg caplets. :/ How should I divide them?

You won't be able to use those. You would need to buy capsules with smaller doses.

 

[whodathunkit]

***This post was edited by user due to misreading posts above it.

Can you give a reference for that? As far as I remember, he never said anything about that in neither books (Amalgam Illness and Hair Testing). He specifically states that "You can successfully clear mercury with ALA alone.".

Think the bit about not doing ALA on its own is in this link. I can't re-read it right now but the gist is it's not recommended. Not necessarily that it can't be done, but it's not the best recommended course. If I've mis-read then please advise.

@LivingwithFibro: You can get 100mg ALA caps and then divide them from there. A PITA, but it could help you. Alternatively, you can buy ALA powder and make your own caps.

I'm personally going to buy from The Livingnetwork Store. They have a bunch of different dosage of all the chelation agents.

 

[whodathunkit]

@David Hammond: just curious, why do you recommend DMPS instead of DMSA?

 

[Sidereal]

You can get 25 mg ALA capsules on iHerb.

 

[TheChosenOne]

@David Hammond: just curious, why do you recommend DMPS instead of DMSA?

DMPS suppresses symptoms. DMSA can worsen yeast infections. I can relate to both.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

There's also Rob Keller MD's Original Glutathione Formula. It has 150 mg of ALA per 6 capsules. If one was taking 150 mg of ALA per day and not dividing it would that be harmful?

 

[Sidereal]

There's also Rob Keller MD's Original Glutathione Formula. It has 150 mg of ALA per 6 capsules. If one was taking 150 mg of ALA per day and not dividing it would that be harmful?

Yes, very.

 

[TheChosenOne]

There's also Rob Keller MD's Original Glutathione Formula. It has 150 mg of ALA per 6 capsules. If one was taking 150 mg of ALA per day and not dividing it would that be harmful?

Not if you don't have mercury poisoning. But you don't know that.