Nope, no significant digestive issues before or after taking cumin regularly, not even post-exertion. My diet for the last few years has contained a fair amount of oats, and I think that's part of why my digestive health has been more or less problem free.
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Cumin (Cuminum cyminum): Possible PEM Blocker
- Thread starter Wishful
- Start date
Nope, no significant digestive issues before or after taking cumin regularly, not even post-exertion. My diet for the last few years has contained a fair amount of oats, and I think that's part of why my digestive health has been more or less problem free.
It's just so hard to know where that 'better gut bacteria' might be hiding. Don't you ever wonder if maybe it's in that bug crawling across the lawn, or if maybe eating a whole mouse would help? So many choices...
I don't wash the veggies from my garden. Sometimes I don't even check for bugs before popping a lettuce of spinach leaf in my mouth. No radical improvements yet.
wigglethemouse
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@Wishful I'm watching the Standord Symposium. Alain Moreau is using Nigella Sativa in his experiments and notices a response in cells! Did you put him onto that. If not, you probably want to contact him and share your experience. Sorry I don't have a screen capture.
No, I did send my observations about my response to cumin to the OMF and maybe some other places, but that's referring to Cuminum cyminum, not nigella sativa. The latter doesn't have any cuminaldehyde as far as I know, and that seems to be the active compound for me.
wigglethemouse
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@Wishful Here is the slide
About 2 hours 20 mins on the Facebook video
He has the tools to test herbs so maybe he would be interested in testing your seeds.
About 2 hours 20 mins on the Facebook video
He has the tools to test herbs so maybe he would be interested in testing your seeds.
wigglethemouse
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Excellent! Tagging @ScottTriGuy - you might be interested in this.
I recently tried an experiment with cumin. I took it sublingually (held it in my mouth for 10 - 15 minutes, just to be sure), then spat it out. Then I did some strenuous should-trigger-PEM activity (delimbed a tree using an axe), and did not experience PEM the next day. I had wondered if the active chemical was working on my brain or via changes in the gut (microbiome or intestinal permeability). While not a perfect controlled experiment, it does seem to indicate that it works on the brain.
It also indicates that it might be more effective for some people if taken sublingually. Some people might have problems getting the cuminaldehyde from the gut to the brain. If you tried cumin and didn't notice an effect on your PEM, you might try it sublingually. I took my usual half-tsp. It didn't seem more effective, so I may as well just swallow it, but it might be different for other people.
Yes, I agree that it's not the most pleasant taste in the world, but I don't consider it all that bad. The blocking of PEM is wonderful enough that I'd be willing to hold cumin in my mouth for 15 minutes if that was necessary.
It also indicates that it might be more effective for some people if taken sublingually. Some people might have problems getting the cuminaldehyde from the gut to the brain. If you tried cumin and didn't notice an effect on your PEM, you might try it sublingually. I took my usual half-tsp. It didn't seem more effective, so I may as well just swallow it, but it might be different for other people.
Yes, I agree that it's not the most pleasant taste in the world, but I don't consider it all that bad. The blocking of PEM is wonderful enough that I'd be willing to hold cumin in my mouth for 15 minutes if that was necessary.
tyson oberle
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How do you think oats help? I have been doing a Paleo diet for a few years, but it really doesn't help too much. The problem with Paleo for me is that it has made me even skinnier than I used to be and I was already underweight. I started to add in a few no gluten grains back into my diet and I am thinking about adding in some oats. Do you eat only oats for a meal or do you combine it with other food(s) or condiments?
SlamDancin
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@wigglethemouse Thank you for providing the exact slide for Thymoquinone. I have been trying 500-1000 mg Nigella Sativa 5% TM (So that’s 25-50mg TM a day) for about a week without noticeable change.
What’s super interesting about the slide is that impedance was created using Thrombospondin-1. I just very recently learned that through the specific calcium channel it works on, sometimes termed the Gabapentin receptor, the aforementioned drug Gabapentin is one of my best rescue medications. I’ve been taking it everyday for a while (up to 3600mg but now taking 600-900mg a day as needed) and find while I’m pretty certain it doesn’t stop PEM from setting in, it definitely allows me to do more if I need to. I’ve always been certain of this effect but was never quite sure why.
Caution, Gabapentin can cause a horrible withdrawal that is something close to a benzo withdrawal and must either be taken sparingly or tapered off slowly.
What’s super interesting about the slide is that impedance was created using Thrombospondin-1. I just very recently learned that through the specific calcium channel it works on, sometimes termed the Gabapentin receptor, the aforementioned drug Gabapentin is one of my best rescue medications. I’ve been taking it everyday for a while (up to 3600mg but now taking 600-900mg a day as needed) and find while I’m pretty certain it doesn’t stop PEM from setting in, it definitely allows me to do more if I need to. I’ve always been certain of this effect but was never quite sure why.
Caution, Gabapentin can cause a horrible withdrawal that is something close to a benzo withdrawal and must either be taken sparingly or tapered off slowly.
Regular BMs maybe? Probiotic qualities? It certainly should be healthier for the gut than highly processed foods, or even natural foods lacking in fibre.
I usually eat them as pancakes: two tsp whole wheat flour and 5 tsp rolled oats. I liked cooked oatmeal with milk and brown sugar, but the sugar is bad for me and storing fresh milk between trips to town is difficult, so the pancakes are quick&easy and convenient.
Learner1
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Whoa! That would GIVE me PEM! Many of us have problems with wheat and dairy!!!
I have spoken quite a bit with Neil Mcgregor regarding his PEM study. He says its the lipopolysaccharides that get released into the blood stream after exertion tbat lead to PEM.
So, not sure what nigella or cumin (they are NOT the same thing) would do to counteract this. Maybe you have a reference?
I have spoken quite a bit with Neil Mcgregor regarding his PEM study. He says its the lipopolysaccharides that get released into the blood stream after exertion tbat lead to PEM.
So, not sure what nigella or cumin (they are NOT the same thing) would do to counteract this. Maybe you have a reference?
SlamDancin
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@Learner1 Cumin is much less studied but as far as Nigella goes, there’s 30 plus papers on it’s protective effects against LPS.
The most interesting result I found in one quick pubmed search was that it reduces sickness behavior caused by LPS, something Dr VanElazakker says is mediated by the vagus nerve and does appear to be happening or something similar in PEM.
“The results of the present study showed that the hydro-alcoholic extract of NS reduced the LPS-induced sickness behaviors in rats.”
The most interesting result I found in one quick pubmed search was that it reduces sickness behavior caused by LPS, something Dr VanElazakker says is mediated by the vagus nerve and does appear to be happening or something similar in PEM.
“The results of the present study showed that the hydro-alcoholic extract of NS reduced the LPS-induced sickness behaviors in rats.”
There are plenty of possibilities, but I haven't found any way to figure out which it is. It could even be a process not mentioned in the research papers. This paper ( http://iosrphr.org/papers/v6i6V2/G066024665.pdf ) offers some possibilities. What I found interesting is that cumin grown in different areas have widely varying levels of constituent chemicals. The seeds or powder I've bought don't come with information about where they were grown, but all have worked so far. I would guess that cumin from some areas might not work for me. Some have only trace amounts of cuminaldehyde, which I think is the active chemical for me.
Update: I no longer seem to need cumin. I missed a dose, and decided to see how I did without it. It's been three weeks without cumin, and while I've done activities that I'm pretty sure would have caused PEM before, I haven't felt PEM. Maybe two years of cumin had a long-term effect. Maybe last year's major physically-strenuous project (reroofing) while blocking PEM with cumin retrained my cells. Not sure. Maybe PEM will return, but for now it seems to be cured.
Cumin's effect also led me to some interesting possibilities for explaining PEM and maybe other ME symptoms. I've posted that thread, about alpha-synuclein, elsewhere.
Cumin's effect also led me to some interesting possibilities for explaining PEM and maybe other ME symptoms. I've posted that thread, about alpha-synuclein, elsewhere.
ShephardK suggested NF-kb/LOX-blocking as another possible explanation for cumin's PEM-blocking effect. It sounds reasonable to me. I can't see how I can test that hypothesis, since I no longer trigger PEM (no complaints from me about that).
The article he posted showed that vanillin was about twice as effective as a LOX-blocker. I don't know how much vanilla extract would be the equivalent of a level tsp of ground cumin for this purpose, but if anyone wants to test this hypothesis, try some vanilla (an excuse to eat lots of vanilla-flavoured treats
) and then some physical activity that should cause PEM for you.
The article he posted showed that vanillin was about twice as effective as a LOX-blocker. I don't know how much vanilla extract would be the equivalent of a level tsp of ground cumin for this purpose, but if anyone wants to test this hypothesis, try some vanilla (an excuse to eat lots of vanilla-flavoured treats
) and then some physical activity that should cause PEM for you.
Rufous McKinney
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The article he posted showed that vanillin was about twice as effective as a LOX-blocker. I don't know how much vanilla extract would be the equivalent of a level tsp of ground cumin for this purpose, but if anyone wants to test this hypothesis, try some vanilla (an excuse to eat lots of vanilla-flavoured treats
I would be much more up for a Vanilla experiment.!
Mary
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@Wishful - thank you so much for all your detailed updates. So glad (and astounded!) to hear that you no longer get PEM!
I tried cumin off and on but never methodically like you did. I think I even just forgot to see if I got PEM after taking it! Maybe because I take so many other things, I don't know.
I know you experimented with several different doses. Is this correct: that generally you would take 1 teaspoon of cumin (the fresher the better) every 3 days or so to ward off PEM? Or was there a longer interval between doses?
I think you said when you took it daily it lost its effectiveness. Thanks!
So glad (and astounded!) to hear that you no longer get PEM! I tried cumin off and on but never methodically like you did. I think I even just forgot to see if I got PEM after taking it!
Maybe because I take so many other things, I don't know.I know you experimented with several different doses. Is this correct: that generally you would take 1 teaspoon of cumin (the fresher the better) every 3 days or so to ward off PEM? Or was there a longer interval between doses?
I think you said when you took it daily it lost its effectiveness. Thanks!
One level tsp of ground cumin seemed the optimum dose, and it lasted 3 days. Half a lvl tsp seemed less effective. Since it's so cheap and safe, I didn't bother to find the precise minimal dose required. Stale cumin was less effective, but those were whole seeds that might have been 5 to 10 years old. I bought a fairly large amount when it gave me temporary remission the first few times I tried it, and it's not so delicious that I used it up quickly...
Taking larger doses increased the duration of the PEM blocking slightly. Three heaping tsps of cumin lasted 6 days instead of 3. Again, I didn't think cumin was so delicious that I wanted to take 3 heaping tsps of it at a time.
It was T2 or iodine that lost its effectiveness when I took it daily. However T2 does what it does for me, it requires an occasional jolt rather than a constant boost. Cumin seemed okay daily, but there was no need to take it daily. I don't think I tried taking smaller doses daily, or tiny doses multiple times a day.
Yah, that's the tricky part of blockers: you have to pay attention to something not happening. I'd taken cumin numerous times after that first effect that stopped working. I'd probably been blocked from PEM for quite a few days over the years, but it was only when I was expecting bad PEM and found myself PEM-free that I checked to figure out why, and whether it was repeatable. Science starts with observation, so you have to pay attention.
I bought a fairly large amount when it gave me temporary remission the first few times I tried it, and it's not so delicious that I used it up quickly...Taking larger doses increased the duration of the PEM blocking slightly. Three heaping tsps of cumin lasted 6 days instead of 3. Again, I didn't think cumin was so delicious that I wanted to take 3 heaping tsps of it at a time.
It was T2 or iodine that lost its effectiveness when I took it daily. However T2 does what it does for me, it requires an occasional jolt rather than a constant boost. Cumin seemed okay daily, but there was no need to take it daily. I don't think I tried taking smaller doses daily, or tiny doses multiple times a day.
Yah, that's the tricky part of blockers: you have to pay attention to something not happening. I'd taken cumin numerous times after that first effect that stopped working. I'd probably been blocked from PEM for quite a few days over the years, but it was only when I was expecting bad PEM and found myself PEM-free that I checked to figure out why, and whether it was repeatable. Science starts with observation, so you have to pay attention.
Mary
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